What multi axis hitch do you prefer?

[Martyn]

I run the Treg hitch that came on my KK trailer. So far I love it. Tight tolerances, no play to cause any noise when off roading, and I don't think I have ever got it to bind up even in jack knifed situations.

The Treg has real issue with binding, if you take the coupler off and rotate it by hand you find it binds severely .

The cause of the binding is:
The close proximity of the two rotational axis in the poly block
Limitations caused by the stud holding the vehicle side of the coupler in place.

Brad I think the fact you are not jack knifing the trailer has more to do with the long narrow tongue on the KK, plus maybe some flexibility in the poly block.

 

[elcoyote]

I run the Treg hitch that came on my KK trailer. So far I love it. Tight tolerances, no play to cause any noise when off roading, and I don't think I have ever got it to bind up even in jack knifed situations.

We used to use the Treg on our trailers. We liked them however availability was a problem. We have since changed our chassis design so they are no longer applicable. The issues we did have with the Treg had to do with the vertical axis limitations caused by the T pin and long term UV deterioration of the poly block. Another downside to the Treg is the proprietary T pin, which if lost, you'll have to improvise. The L&R and Max both use off the shelf pins.

 

[Tucson T4R]

The Treg has real issue with binding, if you take the coupler off and rotate it by hand you find it binds severely .

The cause of the binding is:
The close proximity of the two rotational axis in the poly block
Limitations caused by the stud holding the vehicle side of the coupler in place.

Brad I think the fact you are not jack knifing the trailer has more to do with the long narrow tongue on the KK, plus maybe some flexibility in the poly block.

True statement. Plus I really have not pushed it on crazy trails. My use has been more moderate mining and ranch roads with limited need for extreme articulation.

Mario's point on availability is also a factor that needs to be considered. I plan to order a spare Treg so I will have the replacement parts when needed down the road. So far, the wear seems to minimal and I keep it garaged when not in use so the poly block doesn't get excessive sun exposure.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: I guess we could go paranoid with spares, but

I've got two spare tires/wheels for my jeep and trailer and I also carry a Pintle/Lunette hitch with me (in trailer), trailer has 2" interchangleable hitch tongue

I haven't had to use either, YET, but, just in case, I sure wouldn't want to leave my trailer out in the boondocks, while I went somewhere for a spare !!!

You know, a bear could eat it, or a cougar could set up home in it, wouldn't have to worry about someone stealing it, nobody wants a Tentrax !!

:wings::costumed-smiley-007:safari-rig::safari-rig: JIMBO

 

[ntsqd]

Is the Tregg full of internal friction, or does it actually bind up?

Since I've never had one in hand to play with, but being familiar with urethane's tendency to 'stick' I'm left to guess that it displays internal friction rather than binding. When moved by hand it could be significant, but when moved by the trailer - tow rig combo it may not be, though it still could be.
I don't think that a little friction in the coupler is a bad thing. It would act to self-damp much like the internal friction in a leaf spring does.

The proprietary 'T' and urethane block are a bit of a concern since they're not likely to be off the shelf items anywhere but in OZ. A replacement block is actually not that big of a deal. Pouring urethane is documented out there somewhere. I skimmed the article some time ago. Instructionables.com, perhaps? I'd be inclined to make a replacement out of UV stabilized Acetal (Delrin) anyway.

 

[elmo_4_vt]

Here are a couple of pictures that I had lying around that show how the Lock-n-Roll binds. Again, I don't think that it's a big deal as long as you keep it in mind while driving, but I'm pretty certain, that if I had 5 trailers with these hitches, and got them to bind by turning them at 90 Deg and then pulled forward, that every one of them would break (at least bend to the point of needing a new one).

Straight:

Where it would start to bind:

Jack-knifed:

How it binds.. If you were to pull forward, it would bend, or break the hitch:

Here is a video of it:


Don

 

[Martyn]

Here are a couple of pictures that I had lying around that show how the Lock-n-Roll binds. Again, I don't think that it's a big deal as long as you keep it in mind while driving, but I'm pretty certain, that if I had 5 trailers with these hitches, and got them to bind by turning them at 90 Deg and then pulled forward, that every one of them would break (at least bend to the point of needing a new one). Don

Great demo of a classic case of jack knifing.

You have reached 90°, the rotation has no where to go, so the movement goes upwards. Once the upward movement is halted the metal starts to twist.

Happens in ball couplers as well, I've done it.

 

[texastoy88]

I am new here, but have noticed this thread as I am looking to get away from my standard ball coupler and go with a good offroad hitch. My friend has a lock-n-roll hitch and so far has had no problems. I will do my best to speak intelegently about this design.

While I do see the issue with jack knifing the trailer and the problem that it poses I have another scenario that might case the same problem with bending the hitch.

I will try to explain this the best I can so please try to follow me.

In the first photo I have shown the 3 axis that the hitch has, the second with the same axis just in different angle so maybe my explination doesn't loose anyone. The X axis allows the trailer to turn behind the vehicle, the Y axis allows the trailer to move up and down (as in going up and down a hill in a straight line), and the Z axis allows to trailer to tilt side to side independantly from the vehicle (or in striaght axle terms - Get all twisted up to the rig).

The problem I see other than just jack knifing the trailer and the hitch "collapsing" along the Y axis due to the play in the Z axis as it hits close to the 90* angle, If you are backing the trailer up (jack knifing the trailer) even before you get to 90 you could have issues if the trailer is going uphill as it turns behind the vehicle. Forcing the trailer to pivot on the A axis shown below, thus twisting/bending the hitch.

If the hitch were completely turned backwards and upside down it would solve that issue because the trailer would be allowed to pivot on the Y axis independent from the vehicle. However this does not solve the problem at a full 90* turn. I believe the hitch would still rotate on the Z axis and need to be lifted to unbind. I have an idea to solve the problem but would require some welding, but a plate welded with a moon shape cut in it to allow the hitch to still rotate on the Z axis to the hitch as shown below would keep the hitch from settling down once it hits the angle that allows the hitch to bind.

I will more than likely be buying one of these in the next week, So I will definitely do my modifications to the hitch to see if it works and report back.

 

[elmo_4_vt]

Great demo of a classic case of jack knifing.

You have reached 90°, the rotation has no where to go, so the movement goes upwards. Once the upward movement is halted the metal starts to twist.

Happens in ball couplers as well, I've done it.

This is where I think your misunderstanding Martyn... The angle doesn't need to get to 90 Deg. Only to about 75 Deg and it will start to rotate about the "Z" axis into a position that will bind IF, AND ONLY IF you try and pull forward. So it doesn't act like a ball mount in that respect.

There are a few solutions that I've thought of as well, but I just haven't had the any real problems with the hitch to warrant me digging into it.

And you are correct in your assessment of the hitch. It will start to get into a "bind" type situation around 75 Deg, and then get worse from there. It doesn't have to get all the way to 90 Deg. The weight of the tongue of the trailer is what pushed down and spins the "Z" axis. It doesn't need to be going uphill. It's fine as long as you don't try and pull forward. Most of the time, I will leave it in the "binding" position until I'm ready to leave, then I'll jack it up and pull forward letting it ride on the tongue jack wheel for a couple of feet and then stopping again and bringing up the tongue jack.


-

 

[OlympiaFJ60]

From what I can tell then the Max Coupler eliminates the binding problem

I still use the pintel and lunette hitch and have been happy with it. I don't get swaying at highway speeds. In the 60, with a trailer hitch I don't get much knocking around noise. In the 40 though, with the pintle mounted to the frame I get allot more noise.

 

[Borrego60]

Wow did I start a can of worms!! Not really There are a lot of couplers out there in the world,and I was suprised to see two that I never heard of. I will be going to the max coupler I like the design and simple hookup. I did see the coupler while I was at AT's shop and kinda fell in love with it so much I went with it for my AT Horizon build.:smiley_drive::ylsmoke: I must say there was a lot of great input on the subject. Each one having its drawbacks, I do like the pintel I had on my m416 ya alittle noise offroad but never bound up.

 

[Borrego60]

Nice video on the lock and roll hitch. Anyone care to do one on the Max axsis coupler to see if or how it would bind?

 

[Martyn]

Nice video on the lock and roll hitch. Anyone care to do one on the Max axsis coupler to see if or how it would bind?

I'll have one on line in a couple of weeks.

No binding is evident when we manipulate the coupler by hand.

There is some restriction in the downward movement due to interference between the shaft and the draw bar, but it's at such a sharp angle that it would never be encountered in "real life".

 

[texastoy88]

After seeing the max coupler, It is probably what I will go with too.

Sadly, real world can throw you more than the downward angle sufficent to bind it up. But you got to be doing some really crazy stuff to get it.

 

[Martyn]

After seeing the max coupler, It is probably what I will go with too.

Sadly, real world can throw you more than the downward angle sufficent to bind it up. But you got to be doing some really crazy stuff to get it.

By downward angle I mean ^ like cresting a hill and having the vehicle pointed downward and the trailer pointed upward. Just not going to get to an angle that would cause binding.