what tig to buy

[Nullifier]

So I am going to be getting a Tig for my shop and am having trouble deciding. Since I will be a tig newb I was going to pull the trigger on a Miller Diversion. I wanted to go this way since it really simplifies the process so i can focus on learning technique rather then the 500 nobs and buttons and what they do. But after reading alot of "opinions" people are adamate about stepping into a syncrowave 200 over a diversion and then they are adamate about a water cooled torch which really means syncrowave 250. These are huge machines at 300lbs or more! The dynasty series is another option but they are alot more $ then what I want to spend.

I have a $2500 budget which will need to get me the machine, a full tank of Argon, some rods and maybe a few different sized tungstens etc. I am not afraid of buying used if it is in good working order since I had good luck with my millermatic 185.

Am I just over thinking this? Tig kind of has this wierd vodoo about it for a newb. Maybe I should just get the Diversion 165 or 180 a tank and get going.

 

[Antichrist]

If you have a SMAW setup I'd just get a TIG torch, tank and regulator and get comfortable with the GTAW process before investing a lot of money in equipment.

 

[INSAYN]

Also consider the amount of incoming power requirements you will need to make it run.

If you just plan to weld thin material, and don't have anything bigger than 30-40amp service the Diversion may be your best bet if you are sticking with Miller products.

The Syncrowave is big unit and requires a lot of power for thicker materials over 1/4".

The Dynasty series is the newest layout using inverter technology which in turn gives you a much lighter portable package that also gives the big output power for thick material without the large incoming service requirements like the Syncrowave.

 

[StumpXJ]

For most stuff around the house/hobby/workshop, you would be hard pressed to beat the Diversion. Go with the 180, you get more machine/accy. for your money.

I have used a bunch of different tigs, all the way from the small portable suitcase rigs, up to the huge Dynasty 7's. and Synchrowave 350's. They do the same thing, just depends on what the job requires.

We have 40 of the Synchro 350's at work, and they are a nice machine.... but $$$$ at about $8K a peice.

You wont be disapointed with the Diversion, especially if you are new to the TIG process.

~ Stump

 

[Paladin]

I have a Miller EconoTIG which is the predecessor to the Diversion. Nice machine, if simple. It's done everything I want so far. The air cooled torch (hand cooled, really) only rarely causes a problem. It's so rare to sit down and weld that much for that long that... meh. I can live without it.

On the other hand, if you have the money, a small Syncrowave would be nice.

Don't be afraid of the knobs and buttons, just leave them all to "off" until you know what you're doing.

 

[Nullifier]

Thanks for the feedback. I went to my les today and looked at the diversion. Unfortunely they did not have syncro 200 instock but will call when they come in later this week.

I can power the sybcro 200 but thesize and wieght is now my leading deterant. Its a big machine for a 2 car barge space. I log the size and simplicity if the diversion but like the upgrade options and longterm growth potential on the syncro. Turf decision I probably wont go wrong either way.

 

[StumpXJ]

Turf decision I probably wont go wrong either way.

No sir, you wont.

Thats one decision I would love to be making...

 

[Antichrist]

I take it you don't already have an SMAW welder.

In any case you'll also need a dedicated grinder. You never want to grind anything else on the wheel you use to sharpen your tungsten. Since it's doing light duty work something like this would be plenty good enough. http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-bench-grinder-94186.html

 

[GeoScum]

I'll chime in here about a thing or two.

I was never much of a weldor, but spent quite a few years in the QC department of a mechanical contractor who erected and repaired a huge variety of boilers. I have met and worked with many very talented pipefitter and boilermaker weldeors over the years.

1) I have never actually seen a water cooled tig torch in use. Even our weldors had enough down time that the torch cooled. Water cooled torches are used mostly by those who weld and assemble such things as sinks, commercial kitchens, bicycles and the roots of huge shop assembled pressure vessels. As a DIY'er, I don't think you will need the added duty cycle and encumbrance a water cooled torch adds

2) I agree in theory that your tungsten should be sharpened by a dedicated tool that never touches another type of metal. In the reality of the field, this never happens, and I have never seen a deleterious effect of this.

3) I believe that you would be most happy with a regular constant current DC machine. You will need to scratch start your torch, but you will save a ton of money

 

[fangars]

If you suffer any hand related ailments as I do you will quickly tire of the air cooled torch.
It can be tiresome to wrestle with over time, but I usually log in a lot of welding hours so if you are a hobbiest and plan your welds carefully so as not to stress your hands you should have no troubles.

As far sharpening your tungstens I prefer a belt sander with a fine grit belt that has some wear to it and allows me to sharpen in the proper direction so that the grain is parallel to the tungsten length. A fine stone wheel works well but so few wheel grinders have the correct stone, so I usually have to order one even finer then that which comes with the grinder.

 

[K2ZJ]

Lots of good stuff here, and I disagree with some.

Also consider the amount of incoming power requirements you will need to make it run.

If you just plan to weld thin material, and don't have anything bigger than 30-40amp service the Diversion may be your best bet if you are sticking with Miller products.

The Syncrowave is big unit and requires a lot of power for thicker materials over 1/4".

The Dynasty series is the newest layout using inverter technology which in turn gives you a much lighter portable package that also gives the big output power for thick material without the large incoming service requirements like the Syncrowave.

Yes and Dynastys are so sweet! But $$$$$$$$$

For most stuff around the house/hobby/workshop, you would be hard pressed to beat the Diversion. Go with the 180, you get more machine/accy. for your money.

I have used a bunch of different tigs, all the way from the small portable suitcase rigs, up to the huge Dynasty 7's. and Synchrowave 350's. They do the same thing, just depends on what the job requires.

We have 40 of the Synchro 350's at work, and they are a nice machine.... but $$$$ at about $8K a peice.

You wont be disapointed with the Diversion, especially if you are new to the TIG process.

~ Stump

I don't know about the Diversions at all, but a 350 is a great machine. The 700s are WAY more than you will need now. I would stay away from Lincoln TIGs, the ones we had couldn't weld aluminum without spitting tungsten.

I have a Miller EconoTIG which is the predecessor to the Diversion. Nice machine, if simple. It's done everything I want so far. The air cooled torch (hand cooled, really) only rarely causes a problem. It's so rare to sit down and weld that much for that long that... meh. I can live without it.

On the other hand, if you have the money, a small Syncrowave would be nice.

Don't be afraid of the knobs and buttons, just leave them all to "off" until you know what you're doing.

More buttons mean more control of things that won't help you for a while. I agree for hobby use air cooled should be fine.

I take it you don't already have an SMAW welder.

In any case you'll also need a dedicated grinder. You never want to grind anything else on the wheel you use to sharpen your tungsten. Since it's doing light duty work something like this would be plenty good enough. http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-bench-grinder-94186.html

Yes.

I'll chime in here about a thing or two.

I was never much of a weldor, but spent quite a few years in the QC department of a mechanical contractor who erected and repaired a huge variety of boilers. I have met and worked with many very talented pipefitter and boilermaker weldeors over the years.

1) I have never actually seen a water cooled tig torch in use. Even our weldors had enough down time that the torch cooled. Water cooled torches are used mostly by those who weld and assemble such things as sinks, commercial kitchens, bicycles and the roots of huge shop assembled pressure vessels. As a DIY'er, I don't think you will need the added duty cycle and encumbrance a water cooled torch adds

2) I agree in theory that your tungsten should be sharpened by a dedicated tool that never touches another type of metal. In the reality of the field, this never happens, and I have never seen a deleterious effect of this.

3) I believe that you would be most happy with a regular constant current DC machine. You will need to scratch start your torch, but you will save a ton of money

1) They are only one more tube on your stinger. You can melt one pretty quick if the water stops flowing. It is very nice to have, one more thing to worry about though.

2) Never? Our shop had 5. But it does depend on your weld requirements. We has a separate ones for AL and steel.

3) Probably true, but your get more control and better welds with a foot or thumb control.

As far sharpening your tungstens I prefer a belt sander with a fine grit belt that has some wear to it and allows me to sharpen in the proper direction so that the grain is parallel to the tungsten length. A fine stone wheel works well but so few wheel grinders have the correct stone, so I usually have to order one even finer then that which comes with the grinder.

Belt sander :clapsmile


My thoughts:

TIG is like an art to me. I was ok and passed several certs but not nearly as good as some of the guys in our shop. I loved watching some of them and truly admired their skills. Find lots of scrap and practice your butt off. It is a great skill to have and I think a ton of fun.

And if you do go water cooled I have an extra 25' water cooled torch for sale. PM for details.

I mostly used one of these though:

 

[Antichrist]

As far sharpening your tungstens I prefer a belt sander with a fine grit belt that has some wear to it and allows me to sharpen in the proper direction so that the grain is parallel to the tungsten length.

Easily done on a grinding wheel as well.

As for air-cooled vs water-cooled I've welded 6" sch 40 pipe, root, filler and cap with air-cooled and never had any issues. I used water cooled mainly with in shop aluminum production work.

 

[Nullifier]

well my reasearch has been tuff. I have decided to wait a few weeks. I found a guy at a fab shop who is known as one of the best in the tampa area. He has agreed to take me on as a student lol! Maybe in a few weeks of learning I will decide. I wish there was a way to demo the machines first.

According to miller the diversion has the same settings as the base setting of a dynasty 200dx. The guy at the fab shop said anything other then a dynasty is a waste but he is a professional fabricator. His immediate response was dynasty 350 but no way is that an option to much $ for me to consider. I might be able to swing a dynasty 200dx, but with a difference of $1800 to get out the door with a dynasty over a diversion is alot.

I know money saved at time of purchase is quickly forgotten, but $1800 could get me quite a few other tools and I could always upgrade later. I had priginally planned a $2500 budget for this but we all know how budget planning goes right lol!

 

[Nullifier]

Well it's official I bought dynasty 200dx with all the fixins!it is aircooled to start but I plan on upgarding to water later in the year. I ordered it and am excited to get it. I was fishing of st. John today and decided to check ebay for a deal on my droid phone. A low hour unit was posted so I snagged it. Got to love technology....shopping while deep sea fishing lol. 12 snapper 2 strawberry grouper 4 mackeral 2 jacks and 1 miller 200dx, not a bad day on the water. Lol

 

[Nullifier]

Well it's official my new tig is here. all I have to do is get my dynasty setup and Im ready to weld on friday. I bought this one used with only 2 hours on it. It came with the foot pedal contractors kit and a bnch of extras like collets cups tungstens finger controller stinger for stick and all the gas lines.