While on vacation......

[3laine]

To be clear - my experience using the ID4 for a year has convinced me I don't need the 2nd car to be gas either.

Our longer trips tend to be either up the coast (Ventura to Monterey - 274 miles - would stop to charge once, probably in SLO at the airport where we like to get lunch anyways) or up to the Eastern Sierra (Ventura to Mammoth Lakes - 322 miles - stop to charge twice most likely). I guarantee with my kids we'd be stopping that often anyways Real world, we charge to 100% the night before, then stop every ~200 miles to charge from 20-80% which takes 20-30 minutes.

We drive to Oregon every other year or so, but we split that trip up into 2-3 days anyways - again traveling with kids does not equal long road days in my experience. Probably 2 charging stops per day of driving. Not a big deal to me, but seemingly unpossible to others who demand not to stop for more than 10 minutes every 1000 miles. You do you.

If anyone is interested abetterrouteplanner.com is a neat route planning site (and app) to investigate what any particular route might be like in whatever EV you pick.

Yeah, we owned all EVs for a while, too. We do more long trips than most Americans, and it's been no issue over the last 5+ years. (Road trips in 2015 in a non-Tesla was a different story, but that's a lifetime ago in EVs)

We switched back to all-ICE, for a while, not because of capability, but because we just love small, manual hatchbacks.

And now we're back to an ICE/EV mix because for daily driving, EV's are unbeatable. And for trips, the time added isn't that large, despite relatively frequent ~1000 mile trips. The advantages the other 350 days/year easily offset a few hours of net charging time per year, for us.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I said it's not as simple as "those things are true". Several of the things were not actually true, or were exaggerated versions of real concerns. People should weigh the pros and cons *accurately* to make the best decision for them.



Depends. My wife just drove with her mom to a funeral, ~1200 miles round trip.

It was on short notice. They didn't have to do any special planning. They just got in the car and put in the location and the car told them what to do. They even were able to adjust the stops to their preference for food/timing/clean bathrooms like anyone would in a gas car, rather than being forced to use certain stops.

The most complex math that needs to be done is for some people to accurately look at their use case and the pros and cons of EVs vs gas. That's a big hurdle for EV adoption. Digging through the misinformation (in both directions) to determine really what owning an EV would really be like, how much the fuel savings could be, what it actually costs, what the range will be in their use case, etc.


Sounds good to me. If gas fits your use case better, great. Or if you just WANT to drive a gas car, great!

Saying it's not true doesn't make it false. You want the cars to sell, so that perception has to change, details, facts or not.

I agree people should weigh the pros and cons, and I know there are good use cases.

Sorry for your loss. I hope the funeral went well, and good if they didnt need much trip planning.

I'm not so sure straight ICE is the best thing for me. Not so sure pure EV is either. Leaning g towards hybrid. Seems a best or worst of both worlds.

BTW, I dont think I claimed a 5 hour charge time. Maybe indirectly or something. Half hour for 100 miles for a truck that has a claimed 450 mile range and all.

 

[3laine]

Saying it's not true doesn't make it false.

Agreed, that's why I specified that some were false and some were exaggerated (not necessarily completely false). Many of the complaints about EVs, there is SOME truth to, or they WERE true, but it's reasonable to point out when complaints are exaggerated or out of date, while still noting that there are issues that people should consider.

You want the cars to sell, so that perception has to change, details, facts or not.

Agreed. Perceptions have to change for sales, but that starts with people having the facts correct. If someone says "EVs weigh twice as much as gas vehicles", then that's wrong regardless of what the perception is, and the perception won't change until people know accurate facts.

I agree people should weigh the pros and cons, and I know there are good use cases.

Agreed. Gas is the objectively right choice for a substantial number of people, still. And gas is a reasonable decision in the huge gray area that currently exists where both options work and have their pros and cons. Then there are a substantial number of use cases where electric is the objectively right choice, now.

Lots of room for both, right now.

Sorry for your loss. I hope the funeral went well, and good if they didnt need much trip planning.

Thanks!

I'm not so sure straight ICE is the best thing for me. Not so sure pure EV is either. Leaning g towards hybrid. Seems a best or worst of both worlds.

Hybrid or PHEV is a great choice for a lot of people, still. I'm not a BEV purist. I just think people should have the right info to make a logical decision based on accurate info.

BTW, I dont think I claimed a 5 hour charge time. Maybe indirectly or something.

Yes, indirectly by saying the list of complaints I mentioned were "true."

As noted above, there's usually some truth to the complaint, but for one example, EV trucks don't take 5 hours to charge. In the case of the Lightning, they officially take ~30-something minutes to go from 15% to 80%. If you want to charge completely 0-100%, that may take over an hour (still WAY less than 5 hours), but the smart way to do it is to stop twice, and do that 15-80% charge twice in about an hour, giving you ~130% charge in a little over an hour.

So, the nugget of truth is that EVs take longer to "fuel" than gas, but the real numbers are often WAY smaller than the perceived numbers. And the real impact on one's life it often WAY smaller than the perceived impact considering the net time added and the frequency (or lack thereof) of how many times people will need to DC Fast Charge away from home.

Anyway, it seems we both agree that ICE and EVs have their use cases, and that there's a gray area in the middle where ICE/Hybrid/EV come down to what pros and cons people value.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Interesting opinion piece from those tree hugging commies over at Motor Trend

https://www.motortrend.com/features/anti-ev-sentiment-risks-future-american-interests/

 

[plainjaneFJC]

It's important we differentiate a couple things, here:

-Buyer perceptions / timeline for EV adoption

-Facts about EVs and EV Infrastructure


As with all topics (even outside EVs), there's some level of disconnect between perceptions/preferences and facts.

Perception can be worse than reality or better than reality, but perceptions are not proof of objective facts.

Everyone could go out an buy an EV for their next car because they're convinced that will stop climate change. That doesn't mean it will.

Everyone could decide they're never buying an EV because they're convinced they cost way more, there's no place to charge them, they take 5 hours to charge on a trip, and the range is insufficient for their use case. That doesn't mean they're right.

The people are actually right

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Interesting opinion piece from those tree hugging commies over at Motor Trend

https://www.motortrend.com/features/anti-ev-sentiment-risks-future-american-interests/

Well the writer may or may not be a tree hugger but he’s definitely a commie.

 

[3laine]

The people are actually right

Obvious trolling.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Well the writer may or may not be a tree hugger but he’s definitely a commie.

And like most Americans you have no idea what a commie is other than some ephemeral bad guy name used for someone you don’t agree with.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

And like most Americans you have no idea what a commie is other than some ephemeral bad guy name used for someone you don’t agree with.

Giving free breakfast to elementary school kids is communism but refusing to pay grazing fees on public land makes you a patriot.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

And like most Americans you have no idea what a commie is other than some ephemeral bad guy name used for someone you don’t agree with.

Wait- you think I actually believe he is a commie? I said commie- I meant clown…🤷‍♂️🤦🏼😆

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Giving free breakfast to elementary school kids is communism but refusing to pay grazing fees on public land makes you a patriot.

How about they are both wrong.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

How about they are both wrong.

Good people, both sides…

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Good people, both sides…

I guess they both want free stuff..

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Agreed, that's why I specified that some were false and some were exaggerated (not necessarily completely false). Many of the complaints about EVs, there is SOME truth to, or they WERE true, but it's reasonable to point out when complaints are exaggerated or out of date, while still noting that there are issues that people should consider.



Agreed. Perceptions have to change for sales, but that starts with people having the facts correct. If someone says "EVs weigh twice as much as gas vehicles", then that's wrong regardless of what the perception is, and the perception won't change until people know accurate facts.



Agreed. Gas is the objectively right choice for a substantial number of people, still. And gas is a reasonable decision in the huge gray area that currently exists where both options work and have their pros and cons. Then there are a substantial number of use cases where electric is the objectively right choice, now.

Lots of room for both, right now.



Thanks!



Hybrid or PHEV is a great choice for a lot of people, still. I'm not a BEV purist. I just think people should have the right info to make a logical decision based on accurate info.



Yes, indirectly by saying the list of complaints I mentioned were "true."

As noted above, there's usually some truth to the complaint, but for one example, EV trucks don't take 5 hours to charge. In the case of the Lightning, they officially take ~30-something minutes to go from 15% to 80%. If you want to charge completely 0-100%, that may take over an hour (still WAY less than 5 hours), but the smart way to do it is to stop twice, and do that 15-80% charge twice in about an hour, giving you ~130% charge in a little over an hour.

So, the nugget of truth is that EVs take longer to "fuel" than gas, but the real numbers are often WAY smaller than the perceived numbers. And the real impact on one's life it often WAY smaller than the perceived impact considering the net time added and the frequency (or lack thereof) of how many times people will need to DC Fast Charge away from home.

Anyway, it seems we both agree that ICE and EVs have their use cases, and that there's a gray area in the middle where ICE/Hybrid/EV come down to what pros and cons people value.

Well...EV's ARE a lot heavier than thier ICE counterparts. My truck is 5,000 to 5500 pounds. The Chevy SilvErado is over 8 thousand, almost 9. Those are facts man.

 

[3laine]

Well...EV's ARE a lot heavier than thier ICE counterparts. My truck is 5,000 to 5500 pounds. The Chevy SilvErado is over 8 thousand, almost 9. Those are facts man.

That is a fact, but it’s an outlier amongst EVs.

My truck is 6080 lb.

Another example of “this is a real thing, but there’s huge variation and the difference may not be as big as commonly believed.”

If you’re comparing a work truck, non-hybrid half-ton to a Silverado EV with the biggest battery, the difference is really big.

If you’re comparing a hybrid F150 (closest in power and efficiency) to a Lightning SR, the difference may be more like ~500 lb, about 10% more.

So, the blanket “EVs weigh twice as much as ICE” is an extreme overgeneralization. (You didn’t say this, but I see it frequently, which is why I used it as an example that you responded to)

“EVs typically weigh more, with 10-30% being a common range of added weight for comparable vehicles” would be a way more accurate statement, but it’s not inflammatory or as easy to remember, so it’s not as easily spread.