Why I switched from a Tacoma to an F150

[UglyViking]

In my personal opinion, Toyota is exactly where the big domestics were back when Toyota made the major jump in the late 90s. Toyota is running on their reputation for reliability that is no doubt well earned, and they may be more reliable than most others even, but at this point it's a game of diminishing returns. Look at the JD Power reliability ratings, which while not being statistically significant likely displays somewhat accurate data, and the difference between Toyota as a brand (98 problems per 100) to that of Ford (130 problems per 100) is not insane. Put another way, every owner is likely to experience roughly 1 problem with their vehicle.

I also don't think that the price justifies the difference in reliability. With a Toyota you're paying the same, or more, up front to potentially save a little downstream and you're getting a lot less for it. Look at the data from iseecars.com and you'll see the difference in vehicles that have made it over 200k miles, and you'll see the difference between the tundra and f-150 is 1.7% difference. Is it a lot? Depends on your definition I suppose.

I do like Toyotas, but I don't know that they justify their cost at this point.

 

[Tex68w]

I came to expo in hopes of finding almost exactly this post.

I (like others here) am a die hard toyota fan. I've owned a few pickups and a couple land cruisers and I have loved them all. That being said, the new f150 powerboost is strongly pulling my eye. Spec'd exactly how I want it from the factory im looking at 60k out the door. which is about what I had planned on spending on my next rig (200 series).

While I appreciate the late model F150 within its class, there's no way I'd take it over a late model 200 Series. That said, I have a truck as well for truck needs, so I am a little biased here lol.

 

[Todd780]

While I appreciate the late model F150 within its class, there's no way I'd take it over a late model 200 Series.

But would you take an F150 over it's direct Toyota competition, the Tundra?

 

[Tex68w]

But would you take an F150 over it's direct Toyota competition, the Tundra?

For sure, I've owned enough Ford trucks to know that I prefer them.

 

[phsycle]

While I appreciate the late model F150 within its class, there's no way I'd take it over a late model 200 Series. That said, I have a truck as well for truck needs, so I am a little biased here lol.

There’s really no domestic competition to the LC. But I will say, if you factor out the difference in length of the vehicles and you have no preference between an SUV and truck bed, for the price of the LC, I’d personally find it hard to choose it (LC) over a Powerwagon or Raptor. The latter two are ready to go out of the box (maybe upsized tires on the PW). LC will need lots to make it competitive off road.
And while I can’t comment on the 200, I did have a 100 for quite a while. Nice vehicle but not without faults. Potential front diff problem, brake booster, exhaust manifolds, t-valve leaks, etc.

I’m also biased as I prefer a truck platform to begin with. So for a do-it-all machine, F150 would get the nod for me over the LC. ?

 

[Tex68w]

There’s really no domestic competition to the LC. But I will say, if you factor out the difference in length of the vehicles and you have no preference between an SUV and truck bed, for the price of the LC, I’d personally find it hard to choose it (LC) over a Powerwagon or Raptor. The latter two are ready to go out of the box (maybe upsized tires on the PW). LC will need lots to make it competitive off road.
And while I can’t comment on the 200, I did have a 100 for quite a while. Nice vehicle but not without faults. Potential front diff problem, brake booster, exhaust manifolds, t-valve leaks, etc.

I’m also biased as I prefer a truck platform to begin with. So for a do-it-all machine, F150 would get the nod for me over the LC. ?

100 and 200 are very different vehicles in terms of known issues, the 200 is a much more trouble free vehicle, even still the 100 was much more reliable than the domestics of its time. The LC definitely requires more in the way of mods to fit larger meats, etc. but it's more capable than any standard half-ton could ever dream of being. The PW and Raptor are very unique vehicles and I have owned both, but I would own three Power Wagons before I'd ever buy another Raptor, but the PW certainly fits my needs and desires better. Where the Cruiser will blow both of the domestics out of the water is in longevity/reliability and resale and I can say that with 100% confidence having owned them all.

A truck is hard to beat as an all-around vehicle if it's going to be your sole vehicle but for a daily I have always preferred a wagon/SUV, ymmv. I am grateful to own both and not be forced into picking just one.

 

[phsycle]

…I am grateful to own both and not be forced into picking just one.

That’s always the right answer ?

 

[rruff]

Look at the data from iseecars.com and you'll see the difference in vehicles that have made it over 200k miles, and you'll see the difference between the tundra and f-150 is 1.7% difference. Is it a lot? Depends on your definition I suppose.

That's 3.7% vs 2.0%... I'd call that an 85% improvement. With Sequoias having 11.2% reaching that mileage, I suspect some serious flaws in how they gather data. The Tundra and Sequoia are twins. It appears that they are looking at the mileage of cars being sold and taking that percentage. In other words 3.7% of Tundras listed for sale had >200k miles. That isn't "the % that makes it over 200k miles". I'd guess >50% of Tundras last that long.

I paid $31.2k OTD for my Tundra, new. I couldn't find a comparable F150 that cheap. The "tax" is that the Tundra has old tech and poor MPG... but it's still cheaper to own and more reliable.

 

[UglyViking]

That's 3.7% vs 2.0%... I'd call that an 85% improvement. With Sequoias having 11.2% reaching that mileage, I suspect some serious flaws in how they gather data. The Tundra and Sequoia are twins. It appears that they are looking at the mileage of cars being sold and taking that percentage. In other words 3.7% of Tundras listed for sale had >200k miles. That isn't "the % that makes it over 200k miles". I'd guess >50% of Tundras last that long.

I paid $31.2k OTD for my Tundra, new. I couldn't find a comparable F150 that cheap. The "tax" is that the Tundra has old tech and poor MPG... but it's still cheaper to own and more reliable.

Yes the data they compiled is from sold vehicles, however their data is coming from 11.8 million vehicles sold in 2020 and looking at the number of vehicles over 200k miles. It's imperfect data, and I'm not trying to claim otherwise, but it is a data point.

And a % increase isn't a viable number, as your setting your baseline as the lowest vehicle to make it to that mark, and additionally, you're comparing two vehicles that started at 0 miles.

If each manufacture had say 100k vehicles sold at 0 miles, and you compare the difference in those that make it to 200k, you're looking at 3700 vs 2000. Is that a lot? Absolutely! (almost double the number as you stated) That said, it doesn't account for all vehicles up to that point, you're just counting the outliers at this point, and it's a small sample of outliers.

I don't know your local market, but at least in new england when I went to purchase I found the prices between comparable Ford and Toyota trucks to be quite similar, with Ford offering better deals. YMMV.

Do you have data on the Toyota being cheaper to own and more reliable? I find the reliability data very challenging to source. If you look at Repairpal It states that the F-150 is slightly more expensive than the Tundra at $788 per year vs $606. Consumer reports (paywalled) Groups repair cost by brand and finds the cost for 5 and 10 year old vehicles at $207/$338 for Toyota and $175/$321 for Ford.

So I guess I say all that to say, it seems that some places you look the toyota does better, others the ford does better (I'm leaving out other brands for simplicity). I don't have great hard data on what vehicles are still on the road, registered and driving around, so I can't tell that. Repair costs will always be a challenge because manufactures won't release the information, and that's before you account for local shops. My point here is that we have likely reached a point where Toyotas reputation for reliability is less important as they now have stronger competition. Much like Volvo was the safest vehicle on the road, with the first to introduce seatbelts and true stability control to an SUV, but at this point it's not a winning argument as every vehicle has seatbelts and stability control.

 

[Grassland]

The cost of a Toyota certainly varies by region just like it does for domestics.
Historically Toyota here will point you to the door if you don't pay the sticker price.
Prior to COVID you could routinely see 8-15k off MSRP on an F series, depending on trim and time of year.
Was $41k MSRP for a 2019 RAV4 Trail here in 2019. We went with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Altitude V6 for $45k after all the discounts. I realize they aren't in the same class or meant as competition, but we got real leather, more towing capacity, and the odd extra feature at a near comparable price due to the typical large breaks off MSRP.
Now with the dealer mark ups or at the very least no dealing on price, it's probably changed. I haven't shopped Toyota anything in the last 2 years to see sticker price, and currently my nearest Toyota lot is empty of everything.
Buddy paid over 45k for his Tacoma long bed and it has drum rear brakes and I think that's pretty impressive that they can get people to pay that for legacy technology.

 

[phsycle]

Longevity thing is overblown, in my opinion. One side of my family are contractors/oil field workers. Rural Wyoming driving, piss poor dirt roads, beat on daily, treated like actual work trucks. They all look like they’ve been through a war. All drive GM’s (gas).
As company trucks, they usually drive them to 200k miles and sell them off, usually to one of the crew, who continues to drive them.
Over the 25+ yrs they’ve not has one drivetrain failure. Little things have broken, as expected. But nothing major. 200k is a piece of cake, especially with current trucks. Of any make.
Two of them did decide to try out a Tundra a few years ago. They also went 200k miles but body has taken more of a toll and suspension was not up to task. They’re back to GM’s (and a Ram).
Yeah, you don’t hear of these guys with 200-300k+ Domestic trucks as much because they’re too busy working instead of trying to get likes on Instagram.

 

[tacollie]

Toyota is the largest auto manufacturer in the world. They make their money selling economy cars and cuvs. Ford put all their chips in on trucks and SUVs. At this point I would rather buy a truck from a manufacturer whose all in on trucks.

The reliability ratings are kind of hard to read into. Last time I looked there was a higher percentage of Tundras still on the road at 10 years than f-150s. This is just my thoughts so take it with a grain of salt. I don't think it's necessarily reliability/durability. I think it comes down to two things. Ford sells a ton of fleet trucks and fleet trucks see a lot of miles. Those fleet trucks can make it to 250k miles but not 10 years. I also think that because Ford used to have such deep discounts people would buy them when they couldn't really afford them and therefore neglect them. While those trucks may be more problematic in the long run that may have more to do with lack of maintenance. In other words a higher percentage of people who buy Toyota's new maintain them better because the initial price is often higher. This is based on my experience shopping for used trucks. Or it's all BS and I'm wrong ?

 

[UglyViking]

@tacollie I agree on the point you made about reliability of maintenance. A buyer that will keep up on their maintenance may be more interested in reliability overall, so they are potentially more likely to be interested in a vehicle with a history of reliability, as they plan to keep up with it and keep it longer term.

A similar example. Historically, iOS users were an order of magnitude more likely to pay for apps on their phone than android users. The issue came down to the fact that at the time there weren't many premium android phones, so those with the disposable income were more likely to own iphones than androids. It's possible that there is a similar thing at play here.

Either way, I love my truck but I'd also love to own an 80, 100 or 200 series cruiser, was close to buying a 4runner and almost daily toy with the idea of buying a GX as a little bop around trail rig. So I'm very "pro toyota", I just know what I'm getting into

 

[Todd780]

The cost of a Toyota certainly varies by region just like it does for domestics.
Historically Toyota here will point you to the door if you don't pay the sticker price.
Prior to COVID you could routinely see 8-15k off MSRP on an F series, depending on trim and time of year.
Was $41k MSRP for a 2019 RAV4 Trail here in 2019. We went with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Altitude V6 for $45k after all the discounts. I realize they aren't in the same class or meant as competition, but we got real leather, more towing capacity, and the odd extra feature at a near comparable price due to the typical large breaks off MSRP.
Now with the dealer mark ups or at the very least no dealing on price, it's probably changed. I haven't shopped Toyota anything in the last 2 years to see sticker price, and currently my nearest Toyota lot is empty of everything.
Buddy paid over 45k for his Tacoma long bed and it has drum rear brakes and I think that's pretty impressive that they can get people to pay that for legacy technology.

Yes... no 8-15K off on F series damn it.... I got $1,700 off sticker and a $750 factory order rebate.

Funny enough we just looked at 2022 Rav4's and Bronco Sport Outer Banks. Both are 45K (CDN) We found the Rav to have a more equipment for that price though.

2022 Tundra Crewmax TRD Off road SR5 was about 4K cheaper than the F150 XLT 302a but the F150 offered more equipment that we would use.

 

[tacollie]

@UglyViking That's a good point. You almost need to compare similar optioned trucks. Ford has a lot of fancy options that can be more problematic. My brother has a King Ranch and everything that's been warranted on it isn't on my XLT?