Will Automakers Get the Market and Make Simple Vehicles Again?

[rruff]

If "money is no object" and you want an old, simple vehicle, what's stopping you?

Money is an object. And I don't want to spend a gazillion hours and $$$ overhauling it, and still wonder what I missed. That's the problem with old stuff, you don't really know when some part is going to take a dump.

I want new and simple, durable and dependable.

 

[rruff]

Just today...the last mile before work, I watched the girl in front of me screwing around with her phone...could see her eyes in her rear view...barely glanced at the road...was weaving all over it. Good thing we were in a 30 MPH zone and not going 70 up on the highway.

BTW, just a note on fatality rates. Bicycle and motor vehicle fatality rates have both dropped a lot since the 80s, and there is no safety equipment on a bicycle. The war on drunk driving is probably the main reason. But since cell phones became common, the fatality rate for bicycles has gone up again....

Actually, I just looked up the stats for motor vehicles, and I don't think we can pin the decline in fatalities on safety equipment or MADD. It's been declining since cars were invented.

 

[Clutch]

BTW, just a note on fatality rates. Bicycle and motor vehicle fatality rates have both dropped a lot since the 80s, and there is no safety equipment on a bicycle. The war on drunk driving is probably the main reason. But since cell phones became common, the fatality rate for bicycles has gone up again....

Actually, I just looked up the stats for motor vehicles, and I don't think we can pin the decline in fatalities on safety equipment or MADD. It's been declining since cars were invented.

Stats are a funny thing...vehicular deaths have gone up from the late 1800's. From 26 known in 1899... to it looks like it peaked at 52K in the early 70's now we are at roughly 40K. Which the more cars on the road the more deaths you will have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

 

[Comanche Scott]

I think the decline on bicycle accidents is thanks to the Peloton cycling machine.
I mean who would brave the great outdoors, when they can have some hot looking cycling instructor on their video screen urging words of encouragement, all from the safety of their own living rooms.
If I could figure out a way to hook up an electric motor to the crank so I could fake it, I'd buy one in a New York Minute.
That could be more fun that Jillian Michael's new show.

 

[rruff]

Stats are a funny thing...vehicular deaths have gone up from the late 1800's. From 26 known in 1899... to it looks like it peaked at 52K in the early 70's now we are at roughly 40K. Which the more cars on the road the more deaths you will have.

Don't you think fatalities per mile is a more relevant statistic? Why has that declined so much over the years? It's ~10% of what it was in 1925, and ~20% of what it was in 1950.

 

[Dalko43]

I suspect most of the decline in fatalities has come from the war on drunk driving.

I remember reading a study somewhere that the safer you make something the more careless people become, greatly reducing the effectiveness of the safety measures. People watch TV and text while driving....



"Saving lives" has an ultimate success rate of zero. Always has and always will. The expense and hassle we incur to further reduce risk when we are already reasonably safe, goes up exponentially.

Like I said early, if you want a car with all the most extensive safety features, then you can pay for them. Shouldn't I have the freedom to "live dangerously" with 40 year old safety tech? Hell, I can still ride my motorcycle and bicycle. Where are the airbags and crumple zones on those?

You can "suspect" all you want. People are statistically safer in modern cars versus the older ones which lacked many of the safety features (advanced airbag deployment, crumple zones, rollover protection, ect.). Increasing the penalty for drunk driving is only part of that equation.

I get that a lot of people pine for the old-fashioned, simple vehicles of decades past. But you're kidding yourself if you think those vehicles are just as safe as today's vehicles.

 

[Comanche Scott]

What if the auto manufactures built a vehicle that was equipped to meet federal emissions mandates, and crash rating mandates (as it relates to damage infliction on others), but left everything else as an option?
They'd have to come up with new processes to validate the crash rating, as currently it is more about the person inside the specific vehicle, instead of the damage that vehicle can cause to others.

The mechanical design aspect of the frame & body could be the same, but a person could then option the vehicle with ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, Air bags, etc.
Basically leave it so that someone who wants to be protected has the option to purchase all that protection. Someone who just wants to ensure they don't hurt others can buy the stripped down version.
This could be a boon to dealer profits, as most profit is in all the options.

I'd order everything except the PWM headlight system on any FCA product.

 

[Clutch]

Don't you think fatalities per mile is a more relevant statistic? Why has that declined so much over the years? It's ~10% of what it was in 1925, and ~20% of what it was in 1950.

No I rather go by actual deaths. Can make anything sound better than it really is by using stats.

Are 37,461 deaths in 2016 better than the 26 in 1899 because miles driven has gone up?

 

[Comanche Scott]

No I rather go by actual deaths. Can make anything sound better than it really is by using stats.

Are 37,461 deaths in 2016 better than the 26 in 1899?

Liberals or conservatives?

 

[vintageracer]

Automobile manufacturing in today's world is all about assembly efficiency. That's why colors, options and basic choices are limited for the buyer. It's all about limited option packages, trim levels and the availability of high profit options that drive the OEM offerings. It's far easier and cheaper to make all models of a particular vehicle with power windows than to offer mexican windows (Manuel Windows) as a second choice.

Given the facts about vehicle assembly, profitability AND the fact that the buying public as a whole do not want and will not buy a "Stripper" vehicle is why they are not offered on most all cars and popular trucks. The Fleet market is large enough for the OEM's to cater to those buyers with basic trucks with rubber floor mat, steering, brakes and air without all the other crap. The retail buying public is not!

Given the safety, reliability, fuel mileage and build quality of today's new vehicles "I" for one am sure as Hell glad "They DON'T Make Em Like They Used To"!!!

 

[vintageracer]

No I rather go by actual deaths. Are 37,461 deaths in 2016 better than the 26 in 1899?

YES!

That's because there were only 52 powered vehicles on the road in 1899 and half of those driver's of that junk got killed resulting in 26 deaths!

 

[calicamper]

BTW, just a note on fatality rates. Bicycle and motor vehicle fatality rates have both dropped a lot since the 80s, and there is no safety equipment on a bicycle. The war on drunk driving is probably the main reason. But since cell phones became common, the fatality rate for bicycles has gone up again....

Actually, I just looked up the stats for motor vehicles, and I don't think we can pin the decline in fatalities on safety equipment or MADD. It's been declining since cars were invented.

Billions have been spent on bad roads, bad intersections and new designs proven to reduce fatal accidents. If you think drug impaired vehicle operation has dropped? You must be smoking something ;-)

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Hang on to that rocket ship. My neighbor averages 15-17 combined 2wd with stock Michelin pizza cutters. 3.5 engine. I know a guy who hase the same truck with the 2.7. He gets very good mileage 24/7 all conditions. No towing.
Quick,quiet trucks and very roomy. Suckers have great resale value too.
The F-150 will be my next truck.

Oh, I love my 2.7. It's a great motor. It gets better MPG in traffic than my 2002 Tundra did driving at 65mph. I pulled 2.5 yards of gravel in a tandem axle uhaul trailer and it had zero problems.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Interesting. did not know that..will have to stop by one of many tractor dealers in our area an take a look see. Guess I could look it up online, but much more fun to crawl over that stuff in person.



Thats cool...



Say money no object...Even a restored FJ, with a modern engine? You would pass that up and take a F150? That is what I was thinking with the HiLux, just enough modern features like EFI, power steering and brakes, AC...and not much else. Some modern features are nice. Some are excessive. Do we really need a 12" touch screen like in the new Rams, really think people need to pay attention to the road.

It is kinda crazy that the once humble basic work horse Land Cruiser is now the play thing of the wealthy.

https://www.resurrectionlandcruiser...e-red-menace-1962-stage-3-patina-restoration/

As a toy, I wouldn't mind an older truck with a modern drivetrain. I'm more of a 68-72 Chevy with a built LS guy, not so much on a LC. Driving to work everyday and hauling my family, I'll take the newer truck every time.

I have the 10" display in my truck, it's nice. I can see info at a glance and easily access what I need to.

 

[rruff]

No I rather go by actual deaths. Can make anything sound better than it really is by using stats.

Are 37,461 deaths in 2016 better than the 26 in 1899 because miles driven has gone up?

You are using useless stats if you go by raw numbers. Everything needs to be put in a relevant perspective.

Since fatalities per mile are way lower than in 1899 I'd say it's much safer to drive. It happens to be much safer to live as well. Heck, your survival rate driving down the freeway is probably better than it was sitting in your living room in 1899.

My question is why the steady and dramatic decline in fatalities/mile? Crappy driving back in the day? Bad roads? Did wheels fall off more often? Or did people just not give a ********?