XJ brakes & steering upgrade

[Backwoods Rambler]

So, I've been doing a bunch of research on the "in" famous WJ knuckle swap onto a XJ in order to improve the brakes & steering.

According to Mrblaine, the setup doesn't work very well because the trac-bar & drag link can't be the same length without some seriously custom work. Apparently this difference causes bumpsteer...See below:

Random pic w/minimal custom work for trac-bar (JKS mount maybe?):

Mrblaine's setup w/major custom work:

But then I saw this picture (see below) and it appears that the JK has the same "short trac-bar/Long drag link" configuration?

Then I see write-ups like this one from Burnsville and they make no mention of custom trac-bar work needing to be done. Burnsville seems to know what they're doing...???

Am I missing something here? Making more complicated than it needs to be? :snorkel:

Anyone have a link to a clear concise write-up of this swap/upgrade?

 

[wADVr]

I have been running the Wj conversion for maybe 6 years using the JKS bracket, a cut down RE track bar and frame bracket.

While yes Blaine is correct the geometry is off with using a shorter track bar than the drag link you need to determine whether all that additional work is needed for your intended use. Blaine builds cars for high speed desert where the full travel of the suspension gets used at high speed. For typical street usage where only a few inches of the travel are used at highway speed you will be hard pressed to even notice the bump steer. I have never felt the need to change my setup to correct this as it IMO is pretty minor. And I am pretty anal about getting rid of handling issues.

 

[Root Moose]

That pretty much nails it. MrBlaine has a valid point but it may be overstated for most Jeeps and how they are used.

There is only so much you can do given the packaging of the front suspension.

Add a bunch of lift and the issue is exasperated.

Here is a shot of my front end at just under ~5" of lift:

I need to do a bit more height tuning but am waiting for the springs to break in (fatigue) before making more changes.

I'm guessing the original image in this thread has ~6"+ of lift so the angles are steeper and this would make the bump steer more pronounced.

The same methods always apply: close to parallel equal length rods; angled very slightly up to the steering box so that throughout most suspension movements the perturbations keep the angles minimized (radius of circle stays within a few degrees of horizontal for typical suspension movements).

If you really wanted to tune out some more bump steer you could reconfigure the frame side Panhard mount such that end of the rod is further right of where it is now. That would add some length if it doesn't interfere with anything like the spring or anti-roll bar drop links.

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Chris, that looks & sounds like about the same amount of lift that I have. Do you run a dropped pitman arm? also, are your tie rod ends mounted over, or under the knuckle?

 

[Root Moose]

I have a stock Pitman arm and the rod ends are flipped to the top (which helps the geometry).

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

But you could keep them under the knuckle, then run a dropped arm to improve the angles right?

I understand that this setup would leave your tie rod closer to the ground, but I'm not sure that matters much to me *yet* :ylsmoke:

 

[Root Moose]

What is the problem you are trying to solve by running the Pitman or running the TREs underneath?

The TRE flip inserts are cheap. To get someone to weld them would probably cost $20 or so I'd guess.

Do you have a drop Pitman installed already?

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

No problem solving (besides the sucky stock steering & brakes) just trying to save a step.:snorkel:

Are they just the go-fer-it inserts? Or actually re-reaming the knuckles?

 

[wADVr]

I used the Go fer it inserts and broke every one of them.
I then got some HM Engineering inserts which I beleive were a special order that Blaine put together years ago. Not sure if these are available but they are made from a much higher grade material. These have yet to give me trouble...
Also available and what i have been recommending lately are a non welded insert/adapter. Tera flex sells these with their hi steer knuckle and are about $10 or so each seperately. These you simply drill out the knuckle like you would with the weld in version but saves the welding step. This is the best option IMO because the insert is easily replaceable if it of the TRE fails.
Reaming out the knuckle is not an option because the proper offset TREs are non big enough to fill the larger hole left which is intended for 1 ton TREs. You will want to flip the Tie rod and drag link over the knuckles.
The WJ knuckles mount the tie rod lower than standard XJ/TJ etc knuckles. Also the JKS bracket is configured for mounting these above.

 

[Root Moose]

How are you breaking the Goferit inserts? After install through cycling the suspension?

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

I used the Go fer it inserts and broke every one of them

I've never heard of this happening before. I'm also curious when & how they broke.

Also available and what i have been recommending lately are a non welded insert/adapter. Tera flex sells these with their hi steer knuckle and are about $10 or so each seperately.

This seems like a decent option

Reaming out the knuckle is not an option because the proper offset TREs are non big enough to fill the larger hole left which is intended for 1 ton TREs. You will want to flip the Tie rod and drag link over the knuckles.

So there are no 1-ton TRE's with the proper offset?

 

[wADVr]

There are no 1 ton TREs with an offset that i know of. Could be wrong though.

The reason for the inserts breaking was unknown to me but they cracked right below the flange at the thinnest spot. I welded them in properly, flushed the bottem with the knuckle so they wouldnt have all the load on them etc. The suspension/steering wasnt interfering with anything and hasnt been changed for years. I am still running the same TREs and links from when I did the swap around 6 years ago. Dunno maybe a fluke but i didnt want it to happen again so i stepped up to something else and havent had a problem since.

I havent looked too hard but the JK draglink incorperates the knuckle end TRE and has the bend needed to clear the suspension. Anyone looked at using this on the XJ? reason being this seems much more available than the Euro $70+ dealer only drag link end (TRE) needed to run above the knuckle.

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Thanks for the info!

I havent looked too hard but the JK draglink incorperates the knuckle end TRE and has the bend needed to clear the suspension. Anyone looked at using this on the XJ? reason being this seems much more available than the Euro $70+ dealer only drag link end (TRE) needed to run above the knuckle.

I noticed that as well in the pic above and was going to ask the same question :coffeedrink:

The only thing I don't like about that is when the TRE wears, you have to replace the entire drag link

Also, you'd want a RHD version for an OTK application.

But man, it sure does come out far