Death Valley 2007 "Trophy Event"
- Thread starter teotwaki
- Start date
teotwaki
Excelsior!
rmarz said:
The ice theory would not make much sense because of the grooves in the surface would not happen unless you had a really slushy ice and water mix. I think that the water and fine silt particles combining to form a low friction slurry make sense up to a point. I walked along grooves where it looked as if the rick had "jumped" a couple of inches and not left a groove mark and then the groove continued again.
With a little more time you could probably model how much surface area one of those rocks presents to the wind and calculate what coefficent of friction would be needed given wind speeds up to 100 MPH.
teotwaki said:
Jim,
I just got off the phone with Rod Serling and he assured me that the only conclusion that us mere mortals were privy to was the ice plus wind theory. I must admit however that I am always wowed by the coefficient of friction calculations. Good times, this can go round and round
teotwaki
Excelsior!
rmarz said:Jim,
I just got off the phone with Rod Serling and he assured me that the only conclusion that us mere mortals were privy to was the ice plus wind theory. I must admit however that I am always wowed by the coefficient of friction calculations. Good times, this can go round and round
Rod is watching you....
Tucson T4R
Expedition Leader
The only way to settle this discussion is for you to go back out there and camp indefinitely. Go out to the Racetrack and stare at those rocks until you see them moving. Then you can video the race and come back here to educate us all. Easy deal.:shakin:
Tucson T4R
Expedition Leader
rmarz said:No problem I am already packed ironically. I suspect you will be my sponsorship point of contact, you know for the little things, food, fuel the mortgage. I may have found my calling, staring at rocks.
I can't sponsor your trip but after the week I have had at work, I may just come join you. Staring at rocks in Death Valley sounds pretty good to me.
Photog
Explorer
How many things could it possible be, that moves these rocks. Think about 6" of water, with the top 3" frozen. The wind pushes on the ice mass, and all the rocks that are in the same iceburg move across the slippery bottom together.
IT'S AMAZING!!! :Wow1:
The real question to ask is, How does a big rock like that, end up out in the middle of that lake bed?
And: It looks like you guys had a really great trip.
IT'S AMAZING!!! :Wow1:
The real question to ask is, How does a big rock like that, end up out in the middle of that lake bed?
And: It looks like you guys had a really great trip.
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Tucson T4R said:I can't sponsor your trip but after the week I have had at work, I may just come join you. Staring at rocks in Death Valley sounds pretty good to me.
So here is the plan, sell the stuff that ties us down and join the eclectic clans of Warm Springs! When it gets real bad we can hunt burros and sell burro dung trinkets to tourists. Once we have the mystery solved, return to civilization sell our story, buy a small island, retire in luxury from the royalties.
Jim, are you in on this?
See, easy stuff, next problem please........
Andrew Walcker
Mod Emeritus
rmarz said:
Nice, I think the smoke is getting to you!!!
MountainBiker
Experience Seeker
Most of the rocks start from the far end of the playa, away from the grandstand. They come off the shale hill at the far Southeast end of the playa. You can park at the South end and then hike across to the shale hill.
Photog
Explorer
More pics! Great narative Jim.
As for the ice movement: I wasn't suggesting the ice "floated" the rock; just trapped them while the wind blows on the ice sheet.
As for the depth of the water: There is much more moisture up in that valley than down at Furnace Creek. Also, the water all collects at one end of the flats. The area where the rock tracks are. And maybe it is only 4" necessary (2" liquid, 2" ice).
We should set up a DV tour, during the winter. Lets see what the place looks like after a few rain makers have come through.
A scientific expedition.:wings:
As for the ice movement: I wasn't suggesting the ice "floated" the rock; just trapped them while the wind blows on the ice sheet.
As for the depth of the water: There is much more moisture up in that valley than down at Furnace Creek. Also, the water all collects at one end of the flats. The area where the rock tracks are. And maybe it is only 4" necessary (2" liquid, 2" ice).
We should set up a DV tour, during the winter. Lets see what the place looks like after a few rain makers have come through.
A scientific expedition.:wings:
I think that the rocks could be moved with even less ice. My thought is that with a small amount of water not frozen, the silt would be slick. The thin sheet of ice could break up in the wind, pile against the rocks and act as both a pushing force and a sail for the wind. As the ice piled up against the rock, areas of water (upwind from the rock) would be exposed to the wind and small waves would create even more pressure.
Clearly a winter DV trip is required in advance of a major storm to resolve this, who is going to start a roster?
Clearly a winter DV trip is required in advance of a major storm to resolve this, who is going to start a roster?