Good expedition platform for a rookie?

[77blazerchalet]

..wondering if anyone had an good suggestions on a truck that a newbie could handle i.e. good reliability, simple enough to work on if something breaks, room for two people, two kayaks, ..appreciate any ideas for a truck that I don't mention..but I am concerned about size. I don't want anything that is huge..

Chalets can carry kayaks, pic below of one from our owners' group....... Oops - size. Hmm, sorta the reason why I'm selling mine, as mentioned in my own thread on the subject. Still, I was told to keep an open mind on selecting a lower mpg vehicle when the purchase price more than offsets the gas savings I was looking to achieve...... so, a comparative idea might apply for you on the size issue.

 

[Martinjmpr]

In 2006 the GV was offered with the choice of 2wd, full-time 4wd, and 4wd with low range and a center differential lock. It has a transfer case with apparently everything but a few items that will cost about $2k to give it the low range and the locker. At the time it didn't even occur to me that it might not have low range. I had never needed it before when driving my Jeeps, so I didn't look for it. On the Suzuki forum http://www.suzuki-forums.com/ several others had made the same mistake as me. Although this thing has been excellent for the 40k miles I have put on it, this is something that I was not happy about. I think starting in 2007 they stopped the no low range nonsense.

Now that you mention it, I am also interested in the 1st gen XL-7 is also one of my "potentials." I don't think there is much aftermarket support for it other than Rocky Road.

Ah, okay, didn't realize there was a no-low-range option on the 06 GV. Hmm, too bad we can't swap, I will be shocked if we ever use the low range in my fiancee's GV. In fact, I doubt we'll ever use the center diff lock unless we get stuck on some really icy roads.

I once told her that with decent tires it could take on some of the milder trails in summit county that we traveled in my Taco and she looked shocked - as if she'd ever let her baby get that kind of abuse. :roll:

Nice vehicle overall, though. Not sure how rugged it would be on an extended off-road trip but a lot of vehicle for the money, for sure.

Edited to add: A couple of years ago there was an "outdoor exposition" or some such thing at the Denver convention center (you know the kind of thing where everyone puts their products on display and then charges folks $5.00 or so to go look at them) and I recall seeing some built-up vehicles parked outside. At the time I didn't know what they were - I thought they might have been Saturn Vues - but in retrospect I am now certain that they were Grand Vitaras. They were lifted, with big tires and they had the big spare mounted on the back door (that was my clue that it was a GV since the Vue has a lift gate with no spare tire on it.) I never did find out who built them or who was displaying them but they looked wicked cool.

 

[SGV]

Still, I was told to keep an open mind on selecting a lower mpg vehicle when the purchase price more than offsets the gas savings I was looking to achieve...... so, a comparative idea might apply for you on the size issue.

Not a bad idea. I just talked to my landlords husband who just bought a new F-150 or F-350, I didn't see the badge; but he got it for $20k off. It sure makes the bigger ones more attractive.

Here is a pic of a lifted GV with 245/75/r16 (I believe) This company http://www.rocky-road.com/grandvitara.html sells a 2 1/8 inch lift kit for it, but I have heard people fitting these sized tires on it with no lift and that is my plan if I get new tires soon. I have had it buried all the way to the body in mud and it just pulled through and in the rocky stuff (rocky for me) I just applied the brake with the gas to control momentum. This truck definitely has its pluses and I would buy another in a heartbeat, only used since the resale sucks.

 

[cruiser guy]

If you have not yet bought I'd be looking harder at economy than final price. The "Big 3" are unloading all the pickups and SUV's that they have not been able to sell due to the gas prices. Yes, gas prices are down for now but we have all seen that they can go back up there!

I'm sticking with my '82 BJ60 LandCruiser, turbo-diesel and 25mpg!

 

[bryan062087]

$2000? Really? Hmmm.

Edit:

I saw this: http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/886965907.html

Then remembered something and looked up this:http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=1991&make=Toyota&model=Land%20Cruiser&trimid=-1
1991 Toyota Land Cruiser
Fuel Economy
(more)
Egads!?!
City (mpg) 12
Highway (mpg) 14

That looks like a pretty good deal if the truck is in good shape. It is an earlier 80 series with the 3FE inline 6 engine. They are very good trucks, a little slow but very reliable and overbuilt. A lot of people criticize the 3fe for lack of power, being gutless compared to the larger inline 6 that comes on the 1993-1997 cruisers. But, both trucks are slow, and the larger 1fz does not have much more power. And there are some definite benifts with the 3fe-iron head and block, ability to use a variety of transmission (h41, h42, h55f manual transmissions), and no head gasket issues that some of the 1fz's had. My 3fe in my FJ62 feels just as fast or faster in some ways than the 1994 I had with a 1fz. However, in hot weather with the fan clutch locked in and the A/c running, there is a noticeable difference in terms of power between the 3fe and 1fz. But all in all, not bad.

And yes, gas mileage is not good for land cruisers.

But if you want a reliable, low cost to maintain vehicle for expedition type stuff, the land cruiser is pretty much perfect. Only issue is the gas mileage, but the other vehicles you are looking at do not get that much better.


As far as the 2000$ cost to baseline a cruiser, I think that figure is accurate if you have a dealer do the work. But not if you do any of it yourself. Most of the stuff is very simple to do too.

You can count needing some front axle seals, pretty much all of the older ones leak now. This is not a big deal unless its gushing gear oil out the knuckles or something.

Other than that its just basic stuff like fluids, brakes...



You also asked in your original post about the reliablity of the older 60 series cruisers... they are basically bullet proof as well, maybe more so. Although now they will probably require a little more work off the start to baseline than the 80 series, but just because of the age and the fact that a lot of owners neglect them. There is one guy on ih8mud.com that has an fj60 with over 430k miles with original engine, transmission, transfer case, axles etc etc.

 

[SGV]

A diesel 60 series would be nice, if I had the funds. I probably should not be as worried about mpg as I am. It will be my daily driver for maybe a year, and in that time I will be back on a motorcycle which gets in the 40's. I think I am most interested in a good, basic package that a newbie won't have too much trouble with. I have worked on old Chevy small blocks, and can do a basic tune-up and change the oil on most other vehicles that I have owned. I will be learning as I go for anything more complex, but that will be part of the fun.

 

[jh504]

I would recommend an XJ. They are cheap, reliable, and capable. Much more reliable than a grand cherokee (Iv had both). Also every XJ I have had experience with has actually gotten very good gas mileage for what it is. Its not unheard of to get 24mpg out of a stocker. I get 17mpg out of mine with a 6.5" lift, 33s, and fully loaded.

 

[jl8088]

FYI, i went the cheap route with a trooper:
1999 w/85K = $4200
shock and springs = $550
rack and lights = $400
5 tires = $1000

total investment = $6150

it has been great. I have to add 1 qt oil between oil changes like most 3.5L engines. I do have a weakness for 80 series cruisers though.

 

[toyrunner95]

I have had the same question over the past 4 years. Since I was 300 miles away from my truck at college, I didnt have anything to do but dream of an unlimited budget and all the goodies I could think of.
I came to the conclusion that any Toyota pickup or suv will work pretty well. Even the second gen 4runners are pretty good trucks. The 3.0 liter was a little gutless and a gernade waiting to go off; but that is something that can be fixed.
The pickups are awsome. Anything from about 83-current is a decent truck, just try to avoid the 3.0 liter motor.

Jeeps are good as well if you don't mind some preventitive maintenance. Regular engine service and you should be good to go. I personally would choose a cherokee, comanche, grand cherokee, or tj unlimited. They have all their ups and downs but they are a pretty decent truck.

lastly, something old (vintage) or something new (different). Alot of people do Toyotas and Jeeps because they are reliable. But I have tossed around the idea of something either uber new, like a vihicross or a Honda hilander; or something old, like a ww2 dodge WC ambulance, Jeep cherokee chief or scrambler.

I have an 84 toyota that is cool in its own right. Still needs a ton of work though. I am actually looking for a second gen 4runner or pickup so I can do an SAS and other things.

Go with your gut, do your research, anything you pick will work out well if you have a vision and the potential. Good aftermarket helps too.

 

[haven]

Not clear from your message if the $15K target is for the stock vehicle, or is the budget for the total build. You didn't say if you plan to build a sleeping platform inside the vehicle, or if sleeping in a tent is OK. Also not clear if the expo vehicle needs to be a daily driver as well as a weekend warrior.

Your criteria:
--"adequate" in stock form
--good reliability
--simple enough to work on if something breaks
--room for two people
--carry two kayaks
--carry camping gear for a week

To these characteristics, I'd add:
--well supported by aftermarket suppliers
--has an active local club

The local club angle is important in several respects. It's a great place to check out possible mods for your vehicle in the future. It's a source of help and advice when your build gets under way. Club members are likely to get parts and service discounts at local auto stores and auto service outlets. And clubs are a great source of used gear. Members that are trying for the ultimate build are always selling their parts to buy the latest and greatest.

Your location also plays a role. Trees make the trails in the East much tighter than Western ones. You'll want to avoid wider and taller vehicles, and you'll probably want to avoid putting anything on the roof.

Back to the recommendation. The club angle means Jeep, Toyota or Land Rover. Reliability is an issue with Land Rover, although experienced Rover hands say that all that's really needed is to be religious about preventive maintenance.

OK, so that leaves Jeep and Toyota. You know about Jeep, so I'll mention a couple of Toyotas that are good choices. The 60/62 series is cheap and easy to work on. The 80 series is a great all-around compromise. Both 60/62 and 80 get poor gas mileage.

The third generation 4Runner seems to be a favorite. And the 2000-2004 Tacoma is very popular. Their 4 cylinder engine gets a little better mileage to the V6, so I'd look for the four. But it's a small difference.

The 99-02 4Runner and 2000-04 Tacoma are new enough that you can find them offered by the original owner, with service records, sometimes with an extended warranty. If you need the car to be a daily driver as well as an expo truck, this is the sort of vehicle to look for.

As a bonus, these two vehicles have great resale value.

Chip Haven

 

[haven]

Here's one example
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=245489039

2002 4Runner $13,600
V6, Auto trans, 64,000 miles
mild suspension lift, tall tires, high lift jack
dealer is in Utah

 

[SGV]

Sorry about the ambiguity, Haven. I have done little more than read about expeditions and have done very little off road. When I wrote adequate, I wanted a vehicle in stock form that could perform well off road as long as it does not get too tough. My Cherokee, for example, seemed to be pretty good at this while my Grand Vitara seems barely adequate (fully independent suspension and low ground clearance). Then considering a GMC Envoy. Although I have seen a built one, I can' imagine it performing well stock.

I was hoping for a $15,000 build over time. I really don't want to drop more than $5K on it. Any more and I am looking into loan territory again, but being realistic I may just have to do it. I miss not making car payments. I wasn't planning on building a sleeping platform inside. I have done a lot of sleeping on the ground outside and never considered it a problem, but a lot of people here sleep in or on their vehicles. Why is that?

With this post, I am mostly looking for ideas or to here experiences of people that are knowledgeable who can might know what things are better to look for, for someone new to expeditions. Before finding this board, I would never have even thought of an Isuzu or a Tahoe as an off road vehicle. In my head, without any inputs I would probably only go with a Jeep Cherokee or a 4Runner. Anything else I know too little about, so I was hoping for some fresh ideas or too have these too choices reinforced. I also don't know how much trouble or joy an older vehicle from the late 70's or 80's would be. It seems like a FJ60/62 is not a problem for the people who own them.

Also Chip, thank you for the additional criteria an active local club and aftermarket criteria. I had thought of the latter but forgot to mention it. I already know of a Jeep club around here. I have seen an excellent aftermarket for Jeeps and Toyota's, but not much for anything else.

 

[SGV]

FYI, i went the cheap route with a trooper:
1999 w/85K = $4200
shock and springs = $550
rack and lights = $400
5 tires = $1000

total investment = $6150

it has been great. I have to add 1 qt oil between oil changes like most 3.5L engines. I do have a weakness for 80 series cruisers though.

Thanks. Great pics and information. I showed my wife to try and get her excited about me spending money on a bigger vehicle.

 

[SGV]

I would recommend an XJ. They are cheap, reliable, and capable. Much more reliable than a grand cherokee (Iv had both). Also every XJ I have had experience with has actually gotten very good gas mileage for what it is. Its not unheard of to get 24mpg out of a stocker. I get 17mpg out of mine with a 6.5" lift, 33s, and fully loaded.

I have seen several near me for sale including a 5-spd XJ for about $2k with 130ish thousand miles on it. It is tempting me. So is that Land Cruiser that I posted.

 

[jh504]

When I bought my XJ it was a mallrunner with a 6.5" lift. the guy had never really had it offroad just had the lift put on for looks. It is a 1996 in great shape with a $1200 lift kit and I payed $2,200 for it. I have about $3500 in my jeep total right now and it is about as capable as anything out there. It is not a rockcrawler mind you, but as far as expedition rigs go I havnt found its limits. It also brings me back home again everytime.