Ultimate Expedition Vehicle
- Thread starter rbraddock
- Start date
Ford Prefect
Expedition Leader
Wow, that holds a lot more weight than I would have expected. Thanks.
I love what you are doing here rbraddock, so don't get me wrong, I am just spitting out my ideas is all.
I think if you talk with 'whatcharterboat' he can give you an idea of how tall they can get. They have built a number of them, and it seems they recently built one that was about as tall as they could go, and it took scissor lifts backed by hydraulic lifts, and still only went about two feet up or something like that.
Are you thinking of a soft sides pop up? IF you go with a hard sides pop up, then of course, you can certainly put on a much taller lift. I am sure your only limit there would be the weight of the roof and the ability of your lifts to raise, hold, and lower the roof.
What ever you do it would be very wise to install a manual back up.
For instance the one that whatcharterboat built, the bed is low enough to sleep in if they can't get the top up. The Eco Roamer has a bed that is sucked up into the ceiling, with an electric (I believe) lift that lowers the bed, but they have a manual crank which allows them to lower/raise the bed if needed, then they can put in a pin to hold it in place. Now if you look at the unicat, that thing raises up a HUGE roof, but to my knowledge they have no redundant systems, so if the system went out you would be sleeping in that lame bowling alley they call a camper.
Biggest and best thing for me is to keep it very 'open concept'. There is someone on here building an F650 that he intends to have a slide out of the rear end, which would certainly add a lot of room in the camper if you could slide it even two feet, but that weighs a lot, and of course you would have a major structural weakness to deal with, which to me is a big deal if you are going to be traipsing through Africa
So can you post some nice google sketch-up designs? Just wanting a nice ball park figure on what your truck will look like...
Any internal lay out yet?
Some people say, and I think I agree, for a small vehicle especially you can seriously consider putting the bathroom/shower in the doorway.
I love what you are doing here rbraddock, so don't get me wrong, I am just spitting out my ideas is all.
I think if you talk with 'whatcharterboat' he can give you an idea of how tall they can get. They have built a number of them, and it seems they recently built one that was about as tall as they could go, and it took scissor lifts backed by hydraulic lifts, and still only went about two feet up or something like that.
Are you thinking of a soft sides pop up? IF you go with a hard sides pop up, then of course, you can certainly put on a much taller lift. I am sure your only limit there would be the weight of the roof and the ability of your lifts to raise, hold, and lower the roof.
What ever you do it would be very wise to install a manual back up.
For instance the one that whatcharterboat built, the bed is low enough to sleep in if they can't get the top up. The Eco Roamer has a bed that is sucked up into the ceiling, with an electric (I believe) lift that lowers the bed, but they have a manual crank which allows them to lower/raise the bed if needed, then they can put in a pin to hold it in place. Now if you look at the unicat, that thing raises up a HUGE roof, but to my knowledge they have no redundant systems, so if the system went out you would be sleeping in that lame bowling alley they call a camper.
Biggest and best thing for me is to keep it very 'open concept'. There is someone on here building an F650 that he intends to have a slide out of the rear end, which would certainly add a lot of room in the camper if you could slide it even two feet, but that weighs a lot, and of course you would have a major structural weakness to deal with, which to me is a big deal if you are going to be traipsing through Africa
So can you post some nice google sketch-up designs? Just wanting a nice ball park figure on what your truck will look like...
Any internal lay out yet?Some people say, and I think I agree, for a small vehicle especially you can seriously consider putting the bathroom/shower in the doorway.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
Yes, the shower should be in the doorway.
I am okay with a closed in toilet, if there is room. (Just make sure there is room for us tall folks to close the door and not hit our knees.)
I am okay with a closed in toilet, if there is room. (Just make sure there is room for us tall folks to close the door and not hit our knees.)
jesusgatos
Explorer
setting a toilet inside a 24x32" showerpan yields a very small enclosed shower/bathroom. Most useful as a toilet, and a great place to throw wet/muddy boots and clothes and gear. Useful as a shower only when it would be inappropriate to shower outside. It's hardly big enough to turn around in, but big enough to serve as a functional bathroom.
rbraddock
Observer
Design Iteration #1
Here is the link to the first design iteration on Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5nbICgu-x5ZMGUyZTQyZTAtNDBhNi00ZjEyLTlmYmMtZDJhOTcxZmM3YjE4&hl=en
You must be logged into Google, to view these drawings.
Some of my concerns with this design are:
-the rear overhang
-size of motor: without a sourced US EPA diesel engine at this point, the size of the engine compartment is unknown.
-interior layout to fit two comfortably long term (but four if required,) kitchen area, dining, and bathroom facilities plus storage.
-working a pass though into the design of the rear box, while allowing it to have a hard-side, insulated raising roof section.
The constraints of a 20' HIGH CUBE shipping container are for ease of international shipping. However, the resulting vehicle ends up with a short height, small width, and long wheelbase and overall length; yet, the overall length is still shorter than a full-size crewcab.
Also, for the purpose of easing body repairs, there are no compound curves in the body. It is simply large planar surfaces; any angles are simple to achieve with common hand tools.
Please remember at this point these are conceptual sketches. As the design progresses the quality of the "art" will improve also. At one point in my real job, I designed a tooling jig for the repair of a component in a nuclear submarine on a napkin at a Spanish cafe over Sangria. Yes, a vehicle is a bit more complicated, but that's what makes it fun.
Here is the link to the first design iteration on Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5nbICgu-x5ZMGUyZTQyZTAtNDBhNi00ZjEyLTlmYmMtZDJhOTcxZmM3YjE4&hl=en
You must be logged into Google, to view these drawings.
Some of my concerns with this design are:
-the rear overhang
-size of motor: without a sourced US EPA diesel engine at this point, the size of the engine compartment is unknown.
-interior layout to fit two comfortably long term (but four if required,) kitchen area, dining, and bathroom facilities plus storage.
-working a pass though into the design of the rear box, while allowing it to have a hard-side, insulated raising roof section.
The constraints of a 20' HIGH CUBE shipping container are for ease of international shipping. However, the resulting vehicle ends up with a short height, small width, and long wheelbase and overall length; yet, the overall length is still shorter than a full-size crewcab.
Also, for the purpose of easing body repairs, there are no compound curves in the body. It is simply large planar surfaces; any angles are simple to achieve with common hand tools.
Please remember at this point these are conceptual sketches. As the design progresses the quality of the "art" will improve also. At one point in my real job, I designed a tooling jig for the repair of a component in a nuclear submarine on a napkin at a Spanish cafe over Sangria. Yes, a vehicle is a bit more complicated, but that's what makes it fun.
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CalgaryMcLean
Well-known member
A cabover design or cab forward with rear engine seems to maximize interior space vs. OAL.
Think of blending a Pinzgauer, a Sportsmobile, and a Westfalia! If the weight was kept down, the engine/drivetrain from a Mitsubishi Fuso would be worth considering.
Kevin
www.mungoeatsla.ca
Think of blending a Pinzgauer, a Sportsmobile, and a Westfalia! If the weight was kept down, the engine/drivetrain from a Mitsubishi Fuso would be worth considering.
Kevin
www.mungoeatsla.ca
jesusgatos
Explorer
Would be really cool. If I was building a vehicle like this I would still probably buy a deuce and a half (less than $1000), just so I could use the frame, transfer-case, and at least two of the three 2.5-ton rockwell axles. The frames are something like 3x6" straight C-channel and they're over 24ft long - but they're not heat-treated, so you can weld on them (I would make the framework for the 'body' like a racecar rollcage). The transfer-case is divorced, so it would be easy to adapt to any 2WD engine/tranny combo. And the axles are... burly. This setup would not lend itself to being loaded into a shipping container (too tall), but that's what I would do. Actually I probably would have used 900-series 5-ton axles in order to get full air-brakes and a more common 10-lug wheel pattern, but I didn't want to take the time to build a vehicle from scratch, so I just built a deuce and a half.
lostworldexpedition
Explorer
Kevin, since you already finished the "America's" drive would you please consider commenting on which items you think "must" be included in your gear and the vehicle's gear or perhaps things you wished you had taken/left behind with you on your adventure? I know this will be very specific to your needs, but it would be very interesting.
BTW it is nice to see your blog continues on...
If you are registering a "kit car" does the engine need to meet EPA requirements?
What about an older diesel out of a 80's Mercedes, but mating a transfer case would be rather difficult. I also know Mercedes make a few diesels in their current line up and would be a good choice for parts sourcing from the globe.
Another diesel source would be a TDI from volkswagen/Audi with an AWD transfer case and an auto or manual transmission. These engines are small and compact and fit in a Jetta or A3. The down side of a modern diesel would be the complexity of electronics.
What about an older diesel out of a 80's Mercedes, but mating a transfer case would be rather difficult. I also know Mercedes make a few diesels in their current line up and would be a good choice for parts sourcing from the globe.
Another diesel source would be a TDI from volkswagen/Audi with an AWD transfer case and an auto or manual transmission. These engines are small and compact and fit in a Jetta or A3. The down side of a modern diesel would be the complexity of electronics.
Viggen
Just here...
This is why you should start with something already made ad then all of this can be adjusted. Start with something like a Unimog, Land Rover Forward Control or Pinzgauer and then all you have to do is set it up the way you want to. The EPA will only care about the date of manufacture and since these are one ton trucks, upgrading to a newer diesel like the Cummins or Isuzu motors, is legal. The registration will indicate the year of manufacture and youre fine.
I dont like the cab forward/ rear engine idea. Why would you put the motor underneath the living space? Imagine having an issue and then having to get to the motor. Plus, this creates issues with transmissions and transfer cases. Most cab forwards make the motor and trans accessible through the cab which is much easier.
rbraddock
Observer
I second the request. Insights and information please!
Using a production vehicle defeats the purpose of designing and building from the ground up. And height with that platform would be extreme.
Yes the vehicle still has to meet EPA standards, at least from what I have researched. Mercedes, VW, and Audi are all platform engines I am considering. Small size, great fuel economy, and available worldwide.
My problem is with what is available out there! In order to get a good vehicle you have the following options:
1. Buy a huge American truck in order to get a diesel, and suffer in fuel economy.
2. Import a vehicle from abroad (HILUX, D110, etc.) and hope the EPA, DOT, and the rest of Uncle Sam's employees don't stop you half way through the process.
3. Pray the Oil Companies' and Big Three's lobbyist are sick and the US is actually able to get a decent off-road diesel (see #2) to the market.
4. Buy a PINZ, Kaiser, or some other ex-military vehicle that was abused by the military initially and sink tons of cash into it, upgrading and fixing problems.
All of these options result in you spending money for stuff you really don't want on an expedition rig, or spending money to modify what the automaker settled for based on the mass market.
I think, and it appears that SafariPacific (see MX4 thread) agrees, that a purpose-built vehicle is the way to go. I want a vehicle that performs the way I want and at the same time be repairable wherever I decide to go.
I believe with the right planning and designing that this is a plausible; I'm not looking to solve world hunger or even make a buck off the design (which is why I prefer the open-source idea.)
if you MUST have a vehicle that has a pass-through from truck cab to camper;
and you MUST have a vehicle with 36 inch tall tires;
and you MUST have a vehicle that fits inside a 20 foot shipping container;
then look no farther than the EarthCruiser. It's built on a short wheelbase Fuso FG chassis in Brisbane, Queensland. http://www.earthcruiser.com.au
The Earth Cruiser folks are working on an export version of the camper for countries where the driver sits on the left, like USA. The major change is that the camper has the door on the right side, rather than the left as it does today.
and you MUST have a vehicle with 36 inch tall tires;
and you MUST have a vehicle that fits inside a 20 foot shipping container;
then look no farther than the EarthCruiser. It's built on a short wheelbase Fuso FG chassis in Brisbane, Queensland. http://www.earthcruiser.com.au
The Earth Cruiser folks are working on an export version of the camper for countries where the driver sits on the left, like USA. The major change is that the camper has the door on the right side, rather than the left as it does today.
Viggen
Just here...
As someone who would love a diesel, I agree with the above BUT, have you thought about starting with an existing frame and building up from there? It would make registration much easier and whatever you do, will be judged off of that. So, start with an older vehicles one ton frame from a vehicle that was registered (like a rusted out ________) and then all EPA and State standards will be based off of that existing registration. Replacement for insurance reasons might be a little bit difficult but nothing stated value couldnt take care of.
I guess you could register the vehicle as a kit car but I dont know what that does to your safety and emissions standards/ requirements. A lot of people use existing frames and upgrade everything else around it. Look at a lot of the Defenders in the US. Many of them are basically 2005 or later models built on the frame of a 1984/ 1985. When theyre titled, they are titled on the year of the frame.
rbraddock
Observer
Interesting point; I'll have to research that as an option.
Haven: Love the picture. I'd love to have one in the crew cab model. Is it okay to ask for donations on ExPo? HaHa!
The Adam Blaster
Expedition Leader
I didn't look too long on their website, but does the EarthCruiser have a crew cab model?
And I didn't see a spot for pricing either...
EDIT: I got a chance to look a little closer at their site, they say they are looking at the crew cab options towards the end of 2010.
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