Ultimate Expedition Vehicle

[bajajoaquin]

Here is the link to the first design iteration on Google Docs:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5nbICgu-x5ZMGUyZTQyZTAtNDBhNi00ZjEyLTlmYmMtZDJhOTcxZmM3YjE4&hl=en

-interior layout to fit two comfortably long term (but four if required,) kitchen area, dining, and bathroom facilities plus storage.

Are you designing for two or four? If it's two people long term, then you've wasted all that space by having a crew cab. If it's four, you're probably not going to get enough livable space in a 20' package to do "extended" overlanding.

 

[lostworldexpedition]

I should probably clarify why I consider the container a must:
When shipping a vehicle in a container it is pretty safe from the ships crew or people in ports that may want some souvenirs from your rig (and dings/scratches).

Ride-on-ride-off (RORO) or Lift-on-lift-off are very good options, they are usually less expensive than a container, but your vehicle has to be designed in such a way that no one has access to your gear or living area. I have seen some pretty ingenious set-ups the last few months that make that a relatively simple task; however, the big concern when shipping this way is you cannot go one the ship with your vehicle and the hypothetical perpetrators of a break-in have a long time to plan and do the deed...

The other concern is the damage that can be done to your rig on a lift-on-lift-off operation (just ask Mr. Hackney). If there was a way to design the vehicle in such a way that it was "easy" to lift onto a ship then the container criteria can be eliminated, I just do not know if that is possible.

 

[jesusgatos]

Most military vehicles were designed with that kind of transportation in mind. That would be where I'd start looking for ideas.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Yes the vehicle still has to meet EPA standards, at least from what I have researched. Mercedes, VW, and Audi are all platform engines I am considering. Small size, great fuel economy, and available worldwide.

My understanding of the way it works in California is that, for a kit car, you have to meet the full emissions regs for the year of the engine. So that's not just the tailpipe. That's the evaporative emissions, too. And you have to have all the original equipment in order to be compliant. That would mean you have to fit all the OE gas tanks, filters, vents, etc.

(That's from memory, so I could be wrong.)

Another suggestion is that you could build a new vehicle on an old chassis, and title it as the old chassis. I think that if you do a search here, you'll find that there have been some people getting caught for building new cars on old chassis. That's not the intent of the law, and you flaunt it at your own risk.

It's probably something that you could do as an individual, but setting up a production run trying to thread the needle is risky.

Can I be blunt? You're talking about doing an open-source project. I get that. But really, the feel I'm getting is a car designed by a committee. It's going in too many different directions. If you're not careful, you'll end up with Windows rather than Linux.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Most military vehicles were designed with that kind of transportation in mind. That would be where I'd start looking for ideas.

Yeah, and you still owe us a build thread!

:ylsmoke:

 

[jesusgatos]

It's coming, it's coming. Build progress is finally slowing down to the point where I can devote some time to that.

 

[lostworldexpedition]

If you're not careful, you'll end up with Windows rather than Linux.

********


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Overland Hadley]

Can I be blunt? You're talking about doing an open-source project. I get that. But really, the feel I'm getting is a car designed by a committee. It's going in too many different directions. If you're not careful, you'll end up with Windows rather than Linux.

Yes, please watch out for the lowest common denominator.

 

[dragogt]

Sönke's Toyota is amazing but unavailable for US drivers, as is any good diesel engine of a reasonable size and fuel economy, thanks to the Big Three. I truly like his hard-sided pop-up and definitely agree that this has distinct advantages over a fabric pop-up.

Ford Perfect: I sat down today and drew up a constraints drawing of a twenty foot shipping container. I have some very rough sketches of several different ideas, but the constraints of a shipping container were not considered; they need some more tweaking before I put them up.

The difficulties that I am struggling with at this time:
-Fitting an 8' long "living" box, along with seating and sleeping for four, space for an engine compartment (without knowing engine dimensions), and maintaining some clearance margin in a 19' 3" long space.
-Finding an EPA approved diesel engine that's not a large block (huge space requirement) and has acceptable fuel economy (to improve range) while having the power envelope an off-road vehicle needs. Right now the closest I've up with is a 3.0L BMW 335 or the rumored Cadillac offerings.

To give you a visual without a drawing, close your eyes and imagine Sönke's box (8' long), 36" tires on an 11' wheelbase, 4 door front clip similar to Jeep Unlimited.

Viggen: I haven't started to toy with a Cab-Over design yet but as I look at the sketches I have now I can see the advantages; I just need to get some more information.

What about the cummins 4bt its a 3.9L 4 cylinder engine? And it already has a huge following..

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php

 

[rbraddock]

I appreciate everyone's input thus far. I am going to put this on hold a bit while I do a bit more research. SafariPacific is already in the production stage for his vehicle, so I am going to watch his build progress.

I am not giving up; just think I need some more knowledge before I proceed further.

 

[Uncle Roger]

I will answer what the ideal rig for a worldwide drive would be for me:

That matches my list -- or what my list would be if I had thought about it -- except that I need seating and sleeping for 5 (me, the wife, and three kids.)

My personal taste leans towards something like a Westie (like this: http://bonmot.ca/~daniel/gngcamping/?name=DSC04071.JPG) on steroids -- the EarthCruiser looks pretty sweet to me (but the kids will have to make do.)

I'd also like it big enough to be comfortable -- I'm 6' and my feet add another foot when sleeping. Land Rover 101's are nice, but the driver's seat is pretty darn cramped.

 

[Ford Prefect]

That
My personal taste leans towards something like a Westie (like this: http://bonmot.ca/~daniel/gngcamping/?name=DSC04071.JPG)

Geez, do you think there is any chance that guy wants you to know he is gay? Goodness that is a lot of gay pride flags for such a small truck!

As for the westie, do you really feel like it would hold your three kids ok? Not really sure how you could put five people in that thing when parked (nor when driving for that matter).

 

[Metcalf]

This was from another thread kinda like this....

I've often contemplated building a vehicle from scratch, not starting with something stock, but starting with a blank sheet of paper. Has anyone else thought about doing something like this?

Here was my starting list from another thread........

-aluminum 4-liter mechanically injected turbocharged intercooled diesel
-manual and automatic transmission option
-6-spd manual or 6-spd automatic with tiptronic style shifting option
-3:1 geared transfer case that is synchronised high to low range
-The ability to have rear wheel drive, all wheel drive, center diff locked 4high and lo, front wheel drive would be nice for front digs, but that can de done with an open center diff.
-divorce mounted transfer case with identical front and rear drivelines
-great quality axles that are rebuildable and serviceable (bearings, drop out 3rds, brakes )
-locking differentials front and rear that can engage under power, can lock with zero wheel movement, and unlock without wheel movement
-A limited slip in the unlocked position would be nice too.
-full floating rear axle
-BIG huge brakes with no abs
-real wheel bearings and the ability to have hubs on all 4 wheels
- 35-37" tires stock
-No taller than 72-78" at ride height
-good amount of uptravel....6-7" would be nice
-upgradeable coilover style suspension 12-14" coilovers
-ability to bolt in hydro-pnematic bumpstops at all 4 corners
-limiting straps at all 4 corners.
-Have both axle center sections offset to one side
-high pinion axles that get the driveshafts way up and out of the way
-simple long radius arm style control arms that are identical on all 4 corners
-good belly clearance, something around 20"
-flat and smooth belly with replaceable aluminum skidplate
-sunken front winch mount that doesn't effect approach angle
-ability to mount any 4.5x10 pattern winch feet forward including an 8274
-LARGE overkill cooling system, big huge radiator and fan system
-ability to carry 2 full size spare tires
-great approach and departure angles
-good HID headlights
-LARGE fuel tank, just one for simplicity, but centered in the car with great clearance
-simple replaceable body panels that could be made at home if wanted
-spaceframe construction to keep it light and safe
-aluminium body panel 'skins' that can be changed fairly easily
-good over-hood visibility
-large cargo area that has the ability to swallow something long like skis or boards
-cargo area doubles as a flat sleeping area
-110" wheelbase on 37" tires could be perfect if kept under 78" tall
-80" overall width to the outside of the tires.
-Have a plastic 3" flare on each tire that is easy to replace and universal on all 4 corners
-45 degree steering capability on the front axle
-steering box strong enough to turn the tires aired down
-double beadlock hutchinson 2pc wheels 17x8.5, 8-lug, 4.5" BS, forged aluminium
-Dana 60 sized front axle u-joints, 35 spline axles throughout, stronger alloy axles
-I only want a 2 seater but I know a 4 seater would be better?
-flat easy to replace wind-shield
-rear view backup camera with good side mirrors
-as much storage space as possible, use all nooks and crannies
-factory engine driven on-board compressed air system
-160 amp or better alternator
-simple single group 31 battery
-straight track-bars front and rear that are the same part, with rebuild-able ends
-rebuild-able/replaceable joints on all the suspension parts
-fresh air ducting coming from the windscreen pressure zone
-sliding side windows like a series land rover
-large 1+ gallon windscreen washer reservoir
-heated side mirrors, seats, windscreen, and wipers as a winter package
-I'll 2nd the vote for the room for chains on the 37s....or 40" tires

Thread.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40075

Pics of the concept I came up with and some scale info.

ttt = to the top

Thanks for the insight Jesus. I have been watching your site for a few years now. I float around on Pirate and a few others. I like your style of modifications....

I have been a little busy on the idea. Ok...more than a little busy. I have been designing a chassis that could be laser cut on a 6-axis tube machine like a Mazak Fabrigear. The design is ending up like a cross between a Foers Ibex, a Defender 90, with a little QT/Bowler Wildcat mixed in.....but with room for 37" tires and a low overall height. These pics are of a quick 3d model that was to scale. I've changed a bit to make it look better, and I am still tweaking it for chassis clearance vs tire clearance vs appearance.

Its a bit boxy and is suppose to be, that way all the body panels are very easy to make out of flat material with only a bend or two and flanges. The fender flares are all a common, and can be cut from a single flare mold.

Specs are....
110" wheelbase
37" tires
80" overall width
70" wide body with 5" flares
20+ inches belly clearance
Great approach and departure angles

The chassis is designed to be built without a single 'bend' out of 1.5" square tubing mainly, with some other sizes and thickness's mixed in.

 

[mogwildRW1]

I agree with this statement.
The "perfect vehicle" is going to be different for one person, two, or a family with 2-3 small children.
Look at the Ecoroamer and how much criticism it has seen by people that would never need that size of vehicle. For a family of 4 that is planning on traveling the world for 2 years or more, it's phenomenal.
My wife and I are "building" our family, so we'll need something larger than a regular cab p/u with a cap covering the bed.
For my future needs, I'd think something like the Earthroamer, or the new Global Expedition Vehicles' F-550 based camper.
Something that can comfortably travel with 4-5 people, and also comfortable sleeping quarters for all travelers. I would also agree on the point about having it fit in a standard shipping container, but for a family-sized rig, you'd probably need the 40-footer.
And for any travels outside of North America, it seems like a gasoline powered machine would be a poor choice.

EDIT: For a true world-vehicle a very cool (and useful) feature would be a steering with with instrument cluster that could slide from the left to right side of the driver's compartment. I believe some Unimogs may have been built with this capability.

Its called "Vario-Pilot"

The Unimog check's most of the box's discussed here, diesel, Full on the fly lockers front and back, build it air compressor (up to 18 bar, or 260 PSI) CTIS on some models, worldwide parts availability, huge stock tires, massive ground clearance, easy to work on, reliable, duel caliper front disk brakes, awesome approach and departure angles, single caliper rear disk brakes, you can put a decent sized camper on the back, DoKa cabin for the kids, its a wee bit big to fit in a container however, but that's only one small disadvantage vs its many advantages, this is what lead me to the Unimog when I was researching vehicles. There tall but most of the weight is way down in the frame, they maneuver in city traffic without issue, and can usually park in a normal parking stall.

Then again I'm sort of bias

-Trev

 

[mine_buck]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostworldexpedition
The problem with the OP's often asked question is that there truly is no ONE answer. Each person or group will have their specific needs and desires for the overland trip they will embark on. IMHO there is no universally perfect "expedition" rig.
Hi folks,

New to the forum, currently drive an 89 SWB Holden Jackaroo(Isuzu Trooper) with a rooftop tent and have an 86 Diahatsu Rocky trayback project in progress (hopefully my ultimate expedition rig!!)..

Not one answer indeed, I can't even figure out what is the perfect expedition rig for myself, let alone the world, lol..

But for me a smaller vehicle for sure, economy, maneuverability, comfort and handling and still able to carry all my gear..

Please can I have my cake and eat it?!?!