Howski
Well-known member
I'd jump out my office window but I don't think a fall from the 2nd floor would kill me
New Defender Concept
- Thread starter OBX Seafari
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I'd jump out my office window but I don't think a fall from the 2nd floor would kill me
I thought the guy said in print what we all have been thinking. I like that he laid his "pair" out there. I believe I am with him ... it is not what Land Rover should become.
D
ps: Not jumping out any windows though!
D
ps: Not jumping out any windows though!
Howski
Well-known member
I knew it was a distinct possibility but I was just holding out hope that they might bring something closer to the current Defender here. Also bothers me that it's tabbed by many as the 'replacement' for the Defender, not a new vehicle, when it's really just an ordinary small SUV any car company could crank out.
You are spot on!
I thought the guy said in print what we all have been thinking. I like that he laid his "pair" out there. I believe I am with him ... it is not what Land Rover should become.
D
ps: Not jumping out any windows though!
right there too but you drive Jeeps now so......
This isn't about what I drive ... what's your point?
I drive a jeep now, because of the direction I see Land Rover taking.
Best I can tell they are abandoning their Heritage ... perhaps because of profit ... perhaps to survive ... not sure ...
Do I still love the older land rovers? Yes, don't see a disco or classic that doesn't turn my head? Do I miss the quirks and unreliability? No!
However, I don't feel like I need to explore the great outdoors wrapped in plush leather and wood grain of an LR4 or Range Rover. I like the Utilitarian appointments of the JK. I like being able to wash the mud out of my floor boards without the risk of frying my onboard ECU.
I don't miss: "in a 4 hour drive home through a huge downpour after a weekend of off-roading, my ear drums deafened from the door that won't close properly and the 200tdi in front to the point where it almost drowned out my two tired kids, and the turn signals inexplicably altering between working, not working, and buzzing the relay, the fuel and temp gauges randomly turning on and off in unison, all this while the fuse for those items was supposedly blown, the bulbs falling out of the tail lights until I finally super-glued one in, only to have it then stop working all together, the fog light needing rebuilding to serve as a backup tail light, the front marker lights coming on when I hit the brakes, all apparently from my wiring getting wet from the rain and maybe the occasional river crossing"
I had the great pleasure of dealing with a dealership that is a hold out ... and still dress in Land Rover Adventure Wear, but was told a few weeks ago that the have been mandated to change to slacks and dress shirts and ties soon. They have been told to de-frock their store of all the relics that 'speak' Land Rover when you walk in, and are being forced to undergo an un-needed million dollar facelift to change everything from wood, slate, the compass on the floor, the green color to an all grey and white facade with a "metro" look.
It is what it is ... and yes, now ... I drive a Jeep.
ipgregory
Adventurer
I drive a Defender and I don't experience any of that, nor do I expect to AND mine's a soft top. Maybe mine's the exception but the 2 others I have had previously where the same (and also diesels) so I must be lucky? I know you are quoting Andy but you also agreed with him and are re-quoting it here
Enjoy your Jeep. They have their own forum section you know?
Ian
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Ian: I post only the news feeds here, because I too love the Land Rover, and hoped beyond hope that a new "real" Defender would find its way to the States. It appears that will not happen. I tried to keep hope alive.
I was indeed quoting Andy — anyone that owns a Defender knows the AC is inadequate, and the heat is also not the best unless you retro fit a Kodiac (if you can find one now).
I am reminded of a friend on here who told me the story once of his brand new 94 NAS Defender 90 (in 1994) and when it rained his daughter counted the number of drips on the seat next to her to know when they were close to school.
I'll go back to the jeep forum now.
D
AndrewClarke
Adventurer
Geez, what's with the bashing of my poor 110! I should point out that in the 6+ years of owning this vehicle, it's never left me stranded. That includes the time I hydrolocked the engine (my fault) and had to drive it 5 hours home. I compare this to my Discovery where I had computer problems necessitating an off-road tow-out and flatbed recovery on two different occasions, and finally an exploded engine where you could see daylight through the block.
I know the point of the comments hasn't been specifically to bash my truck, but I'm feeling a little protective over it. On the same trip last weekend, it turned 300,000 miles. Interestingly enough, when I pulled into my cousin's cottage after a 4.5 hour drive to get to the trails, it was at 299,999. What are the chances of that? Here's a "happy birthday" photo I took of the truck the next morning. I think it does pretty well for a 27 year old vehicle with 300,000 miles on it. I'll find the short and fix it, buy the rear LEDs as soon as I can find someone to sell them to me, fix the door (there are valid reasons why I haven't done that yet), and we'll be back in business.
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Great thanks. It's just weird that you used to be " mr LR" but now you switched to Jeep. True love survives the smooth with the rough. I've enjoyed every LR I have owned, over 15. None have ever been mechanically unsound. Never had one leave me stranded.Ian: I post only the news feeds here, because I too love the Land Rover, and hoped beyond hope that a new "real" Defender would find its way to the States. It appears that will not happen. I tried to keep hope alive.
I was indeed quoting Andy — anyone that owns a Defender knows the AC is inadequate, and the heat is also not the best unless you retro fit a Kodiac (if you can find one now).
I am reminded of a friend on here who told me the story once of his brand new 94 NAS Defender 90 (in 1994) and when it rained his daughter counted the number of drips on the seat next to her to know when they were close to school.
I'll go back to the jeep forum now.
D
I have also owned two jeeps and three Landcruisers, they were mechanically unsound and left me stranded more than once.
Jeep sells numerous mall crawler mommy mobiles that are 2wd and suck. Yet everybody acts like they only sell the Wrangler Rubicon. Jeep has sold out way more than LR. Every vehicle in the LR line up still has excellent to good off road capability. I guarantee Bob Burns or some other LR driving instructor could take an LR4 with rear diff lock and upgraded tires anywhere your Wrangler will go. If LR just sold old solid axle Defenders and Discos they would be out of business. I for one prefer they stay in business.
I am confident the " new " Def will be every bit as capable as the current one. It's 30 years old. It has to change to survive.
Andrew: Love that Rover! And unlike some that don't like the "county" stripe, ... I actually do. Gives it provenance.
It's rough and tumble, yet refined.
I drive a jeep now, ... so what. Has nothing to do with true love or not true love. Has to do with turning 50 and wanting to spend less money (as a local friend with 2 Land Rovers with 300Tdi's recently said ... "he should have had a drug habit ... it would have cost him less money!") on trucks and more on going and doing. It is a matter of where your priorities lie ... I suppose.
It's not like Land Rovers and Jeeps are The Cowboys and the Steelers. Geesh.
I can still love Land Rovers and drive a Jeep. There is nothing wrong with admiring something, but not missing ownership woes.
To your point, DiscoTdi, I bet there are places my JK will go that the LR4 will not go simply due to foot print and stance, and I know there are places that the LR4 will go that my JK will not. I have seen (at least an LR3) LR3/4's do amazing things- and most of them "stock".
I have also seen catastrophic failures of suspensions on these and big body Range Rovers leave folks in a real bind- ask Ben Edmonson about suspension failure on an LR3.
Nonetheless- take the conversation back to the root of the post. Not happy with the new Defender ... nope.
D
It's rough and tumble, yet refined.
I drive a jeep now, ... so what. Has nothing to do with true love or not true love. Has to do with turning 50 and wanting to spend less money (as a local friend with 2 Land Rovers with 300Tdi's recently said ... "he should have had a drug habit ... it would have cost him less money!") on trucks and more on going and doing. It is a matter of where your priorities lie ... I suppose.
It's not like Land Rovers and Jeeps are The Cowboys and the Steelers. Geesh.
I can still love Land Rovers and drive a Jeep. There is nothing wrong with admiring something, but not missing ownership woes.
To your point, DiscoTdi, I bet there are places my JK will go that the LR4 will not go simply due to foot print and stance, and I know there are places that the LR4 will go that my JK will not. I have seen (at least an LR3) LR3/4's do amazing things- and most of them "stock".
I have also seen catastrophic failures of suspensions on these and big body Range Rovers leave folks in a real bind- ask Ben Edmonson about suspension failure on an LR3.
Nonetheless- take the conversation back to the root of the post. Not happy with the new Defender ... nope.
D
ipgregory
Adventurer
I wouldn't know because not owning either one I’ve never felt the need to go over to the Jeep or Toyota sections of the forum, but they must be really boring because we're always hip deep in people who own them but no land rovers over here. The majority of them bashing or being disparaging to LRs. It gets old.....
Andy, you posted that quote originally in such a way that it suggested a Defender was a substandard vehicle in general and Dendy is just using it to emphasize that.
As to the actual topic. I had heard recently that the DC100 is to become its own model, not the Defender replacement. The Defender replacement is something we have yet to see. If that is the case then I think it’s a good thing. The DC100 is a fun looking vehicle as long as it is NOT the intended replacement for the Defender.
Andy, you posted that quote originally in such a way that it suggested a Defender was a substandard vehicle in general and Dendy is just using it to emphasize that.
As to the actual topic. I had heard recently that the DC100 is to become its own model, not the Defender replacement. The Defender replacement is something we have yet to see. If that is the case then I think it’s a good thing. The DC100 is a fun looking vehicle as long as it is NOT the intended replacement for the Defender.
We have equally as many disparaging remarks in the Jeep section from Land Rover owners and Toyota owners, same in the Toyota section. This is old news.I wouldn't know because not owning either one I've never felt the need to go over to the Jeep or Toyota sections of the forum, but they must be really boring because we're always hip deep in people who own them but no land rovers over here. The majority of them bashing or being disparaging to LRs. It gets old.....
To paraphrase Scott Brady- don't be about the brand, be about the purpose.
I didn't take what Andy posted as suggesting substandard and didn't post it to emphasize that. We all know that if you are a long time land rover owner (I've owned 14 ... or more) that there are some things you come to know as normal ... even if to the standard vehicle owner ... it is far from normal. You have to love land rovers along with their quirks. And if you have owned as many as you state, you know those quirks are all different depending the truck (Disco I, Disco II, Defender 90/110, and Range Rover Classics, P38's) We even get where we look for those things, and expect them to be broken and often surprised if the item is actually working ... like cruise control on a RR Classic for example.
This would indeed be good, but is not what the three articles above and interviews with Land Rover Execs has shown. I could say that a Honda Element is a fun looking vehicle as well, ...
ipgregory
Adventurer
Interesting. I wonder why they set up the forum with brand specific sub groups then? Was this not so that owners/users of a given brand could have somewhere to 'hang out' with others of the same ilk? I like the camp fire comparison. If you wander over to the Land Rover camp fire wearing your 'I now drive a Jeep' t-shirt and proceed to make negative statements about the vehicles or the brand, how do you think you would be received? Positivly? I don't care about the other sub groups they are welcome to do as they wish, I do care about this one that I hang out in. If its such 'old news' why don't you start the charge for the 'new news' and head back over to discuss the superiority of your Jeep with your other like minded owners over there? You can have a blast bashing Land Rover to your hearts content and leave us over here to our miserable ownership experience in peace.
Why would you post Andy's quote in the way you did to be anything but disparaging? What were you emphasizing then? The positives? How so?
I generally keep my vehicles for quite a while and enjoy them at length so I've never felt the need to collect 14 or more different vehicles of a similar type. Life is not that long. The ones I have had have given me the service I desired and have not needed typically to be replaced with 15 others of the same. Maybe I have been lucky or maybe you just have a knack for finding and buying Friday afternoon vehicles? Nigel must really hate you.
Yes as a life long owner of similar brand vehicles I am sure there are common issues and foibles that I repair or deal with unconsciously almost. The same could be said of ANY brand or vehicle. They ALL have their issues of one type or another and brand loyalists know them and deal with them. Those not as versed with the brand get annoyed at them. This is not a Land Rover specific issue, they did not invent it. So it's a non-issue. Honda is not know for its reliability because LRs are not, it's because MOST others are not in one way or another in comparison.
Now back on topic after all that drivel. I can't remember where I saw the articles posted. Maybe another forum. They were also from LR execs. When I get back in front of a computer instead of an iPad I will see if I can find them and post them up here. Then we might have something new to talk about other than re-hashing the same old point that we all think the DC100 should not be the Defender replacement.
AndrewClarke
Adventurer
There were some comments a couple months back from Land Rover about how they were going to use the DC100 as an entry-level Land Rover and build a separate Defender. IIRC that was "straight from the horse's mouth" at LR, anyway. I took that to be back-pedaling that although the DC100 might be a great vehicle in its own right, LR got the message that it can't be a Defender "replacement".
Now it seems that either that message was wrong, or they've changed their minds again, or, well, who knows. Now apparently Land Rover IS going to base the Defender on the DC100. We'll know when we know, I guess.
Dendy, I've appreciated you posting the news updates here. I'd like to keep this thread on-topic, and I'm sorry for my part in diverting it. Subscribing to this thread means that if someone else sees interesting news, they can post it here and I don't have to scour news.google.com every week or whenever I'm curious.
I'm pretty sure that if you took a bunch of mid-80s trucks and went off-roading with them and put 800km on them over a weekend, a certain percentage of them would have problems. FWIW, the previous weekend I towed a trailer 800km and everything went smoothly. Land Rovers are known to have poor electrics. All the water I encountered last weekend brought to light an electrical short that I didn't know was there. I don't think that should be surprising to anyone who has spent any time with Land Rovers. My door is doesn't stay closed because the latch mechanism has worn out. I have the new parts but haven't fitted them because I also have a crack in my door I want welded, along with a bunch of rust in the second row doors I want fixed. I'm waiting to get a fabricator do to that when I get him to weld up the roll cage I just got a week and a half ago, a couple months later than I thought I'd get it. What's the point in taking all the pieces off my door twice, while the weather's been good anyway? That's hardly a fault I'd blame Land Rover for. You drive an old vehicle and things wear out. The rear lights are completely useless, and I blame Land Rover for that, or whatever aftermarket company I may have inadvertently used (I tend to buy Genuine). I'm trying to buy LED lights but am having a difficult time finding a supplier for the particular model I want. So, dealing with all these issues simultaneously, with two overtired kids in the back, in a torrential downpour, stressing about whether I was going to get pulled over for a missing tail light, wanting the overall weekend experience to be a positive one for my wife and kids, I was thinking about how nice it would be if Land Rover came in with a 6spd manual diesel Defender with solid axles in a couple years. Want to know what else? This was also because I spent the weekend with the local Jeep club, of which I'm a member because there is nobody else around here with a Land Rover. They were very friendly and welcoming, and their 4 door Rubicons are very very nice. They got me thinking again about how if Land Rover ever brings the Defender to Canada, I'll take a serious look at it. The Rubicon is a sweet vehicle that I might go buy if I didn't love my current truck so much.
Now it seems that either that message was wrong, or they've changed their minds again, or, well, who knows. Now apparently Land Rover IS going to base the Defender on the DC100. We'll know when we know, I guess.
Dendy, I've appreciated you posting the news updates here. I'd like to keep this thread on-topic, and I'm sorry for my part in diverting it. Subscribing to this thread means that if someone else sees interesting news, they can post it here and I don't have to scour news.google.com every week or whenever I'm curious.
I'm pretty sure that if you took a bunch of mid-80s trucks and went off-roading with them and put 800km on them over a weekend, a certain percentage of them would have problems. FWIW, the previous weekend I towed a trailer 800km and everything went smoothly. Land Rovers are known to have poor electrics. All the water I encountered last weekend brought to light an electrical short that I didn't know was there. I don't think that should be surprising to anyone who has spent any time with Land Rovers. My door is doesn't stay closed because the latch mechanism has worn out. I have the new parts but haven't fitted them because I also have a crack in my door I want welded, along with a bunch of rust in the second row doors I want fixed. I'm waiting to get a fabricator do to that when I get him to weld up the roll cage I just got a week and a half ago, a couple months later than I thought I'd get it. What's the point in taking all the pieces off my door twice, while the weather's been good anyway? That's hardly a fault I'd blame Land Rover for. You drive an old vehicle and things wear out. The rear lights are completely useless, and I blame Land Rover for that, or whatever aftermarket company I may have inadvertently used (I tend to buy Genuine). I'm trying to buy LED lights but am having a difficult time finding a supplier for the particular model I want. So, dealing with all these issues simultaneously, with two overtired kids in the back, in a torrential downpour, stressing about whether I was going to get pulled over for a missing tail light, wanting the overall weekend experience to be a positive one for my wife and kids, I was thinking about how nice it would be if Land Rover came in with a 6spd manual diesel Defender with solid axles in a couple years. Want to know what else? This was also because I spent the weekend with the local Jeep club, of which I'm a member because there is nobody else around here with a Land Rover. They were very friendly and welcoming, and their 4 door Rubicons are very very nice. They got me thinking again about how if Land Rover ever brings the Defender to Canada, I'll take a serious look at it. The Rubicon is a sweet vehicle that I might go buy if I didn't love my current truck so much.