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Those same people kicked and screamed when the 911 was changed too. Do you not remember the cries when they went water cooled? Or when they introduced PDK? Or electric power steering? Progress is progress... by the way 2x nice quoting all old vehicles as having solid axles, minus the wranger...

A similar model year 4runner costs 3x in my market. You know what I did recently with my friend who bought one? Helped him rebuild his rear axle. We took my Rover to the parts store when we needed extra tools or parts. We joked about it. I'd love to see you in a technical review board...

Nothing wrong with all the legacy overland vehicles using solid axles, carburetors, or any other old technology. Nothing wrong with new vehicles with improved designs either. Lotta hate man. Lots and lots of hate.

Nope, because I use the comfort and space. I don't have excess capability that isn't utilized. I'm all for debate but please refrain from personal attacks about anyone's body. I'm assuming you're not an engineer, so if you want help understanding the compromises related to design and ride...

1. I've put 25k miles on my rover. I love the low resale value. I couldn't even get a 1998 4runner for what I paid for my LR3. It's broken down exactly zero times. Keep reading the stories, I'm loving the resale value that scares people away. 2. Agreed, dumb to do coil swaps. But I don't...

1. Again, what are you basing this on? The Defender is not available yet. I regularly go WAY outside of any repair center range and I'm not anxious. 2. Because the LR is more comfortable? That's why I drive an LR3 instead of a wrangler or T4R, etc. It's nice to be comfortable when doing many...

Sorry but I was asking about anywhere in North America. I asked specifically earlier for that. EXACTLY. Look up top on the 'overlanding the Olympic peninsula' post which is CLEARLY an ARB advertisement. I hang out in the Olympics all the time. Notice how there's not a single technical section...

I passed a lot of Jeeps on the alpine loop. They were doing 5mph and looked like they were being thrown around quite a bit. N=1 but it happened every day for days on end in that area... and as far as slow/fast driving goes, 99% of our driving is on pavement, no matter how hardcore you are. Cmon.

Nope, there is no such definition. This is just as made up as the Luxury-Defender moniker. And since when is independent suspension contemporary? The wrangler is the only vehicle left with solid axles on both ends.

How would you compare a YJ to a JL in terms of luxury? I don't think it's far from the last Defender vs 2020.

Same goes for the Lux-Rovers. The Wrangler has never had the advantages they have. And that's OK. See? We can all get along?

OK - so what's listed as an 'extreme jeep/buggy trail.' I haven't been on 21 but from what I've found that's what it is. AND THATS FINE. Like you guys stated before - there are people who like exploring the back country and there's people who just want to see how far they can push on extreme...

Nobody has disputed the Wrangler's capability. It's in immensely capable vehicle. So.... is there a place you need that level of capability in North America? Maybe in the Aussie outback, but I haven't been.... But yes, the capability is wasted for anyone outside an OHV park. I'm thrilled that...

Exactly, compromise is a thing. The wrangler is a giant compromise. For some of us, having 100.0% of the capability makes a lot more sense than 300%. I daily ride a Multistrada because its a comfortable fast bike. I *could* ride a 220hp+ Panigale but there's just no use for it on the road...

And the issue is that it's too... nice? Because nobody has yet to give me a place you'd actually need wrangler-rubicon-levels levels of capability. Outside the Rubicon. Anyone? Anyone? I've asked a dozen times now and it's deafened by the cries for solid-freakin-axles. More comfort, more...

New Icon. Had to. Thanks guys! :D

Right. Some of us want to enjoy the scenery in the most comfortable vehicle that is capable enough. Others want the most capability to see how far they can go before getting stuck. I'm not hating on the 2nd group. But I'm in the 1st group and clearly that's not OK for many...

The steep section isn't much harder. This isn't my first or 2nd time on Engineer... Imogene/BlackBear are more challenging but still well within stock LR3 capability. Still waiting for somebody to chime in with where they can't go with a modern rover. I think everyone is just addicted to excess...

Engineer's pass is an easy road. (not a shot at mpinco in any way, just using this to repeat myself haha) I'll repeat what I said before: Everyone complains that modern rovers are too soft and can't go anywhere. Yet I keep asking for a single ROAD or PLACE you cannot go with one of these...

Question: Why are we lowering the truck at speed? I understand that the truck will do this at very high speeds for stability, but won't alignment changes offset efficiency gained from aero? Have you tried logging your fuel usage (onboard or tracked) to see if it works? Sorry for not being of any...