Maximus Ram
Expedition Leader
what side is the DW on ?
Don't just replace 1 side on the ball joints, do yourself a favor and do both.
Don't just replace 1 side on the ball joints, do yourself a favor and do both.
2001 DW- At a Loss!!
- Thread starter silvergrand
- Start date
JChatary
Outdoor Daydreamer
I'm confident it's the passenger side...it's where it feels like it's starting. It's where I drove it off the side of the trail I was on....and it's where the ball joints are shot....unfortunately my current budget is only going to allow me to get one side done for now....I'll have to do the other side later,....
Maximus Ram
Expedition Leader
I picked mine up here
http://www.xtremeterrain.com/spicerballjointkitpairleftrightjeepyjtjxjzj1984-04.aspx
it looks like they changed the set I picked up, but these look better
http://www.xtremeterrain.com/spicerballjointkitpairleftrightjeepyjtjxjzj1984-04.aspx
it looks like they changed the set I picked up, but these look better
SavageSunJeep
Adventurer
1) Since they have already told you about your bad ball joints get them fixed ASAP! That most likely is your problem at this stage of the game.
2) Anything, any component that hangs down below the frame rails can cause or contribute to the cause of DW.
3) Insure that you have a good HD steering stabilizer. NOTE: There are folks out there they say its a band-aid and does not fix anything, yada, yada. Strongly suggest you not listen to them.
In the interim here is some reading for you to better understand what DW is and how it can be fixed. You will also learn what role the SS plays...
http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/viewpoints-technical_discus/death_wobble_on_tjs.html
http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/viewpoints-technical_discus/jeep_tj_steering_stabilizer.html
While the focus is Jeep TJ's the same engineering applies to all.
Let us know how you solve it.:coffeedrink:
2) Anything, any component that hangs down below the frame rails can cause or contribute to the cause of DW.
3) Insure that you have a good HD steering stabilizer. NOTE: There are folks out there they say its a band-aid and does not fix anything, yada, yada. Strongly suggest you not listen to them.
In the interim here is some reading for you to better understand what DW is and how it can be fixed. You will also learn what role the SS plays...
http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/viewpoints-technical_discus/death_wobble_on_tjs.html
http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/viewpoints-technical_discus/jeep_tj_steering_stabilizer.html
While the focus is Jeep TJ's the same engineering applies to all.
Let us know how you solve it.:coffeedrink:
Fergie
Expedition Leader
I'm calling SPOBI here.
SS mask the issue...dual SS mask it twice as well.
A suspension system will function the same, with or without the SS. It may feel different from all the feedback you'd be feeling, but the system and SS are independent of each other.
Fix the balljoints, check your bushings, and tighten your bolts.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
The only other thing I would suggest is verify your caster. I didn't re-read the whole thread but from the numbers posted in the OP the numbers look low.
SavageSunJeep
Adventurer
Ferg, I have no idea what a 'SPOBI' is but on the subject of the SS your interpretation and statement about masking is just plain off the mark. Even worse is the recommendation to anyone that it is not needed.
Jeeps, Corvettes, trucks and the list is LONG of the autos that have a SS and I suspect the the cost savings of skipping the install of that piece of equipment is in the $Millions of dollars saved.
That said, I wrote a discussion paper on it, which you clearly have not read in spite of me providing a link to it.
If you want to discuss it technically then by all means lets do so, I welcome the discourse. But if your goal is to come on here and give erroneous and misleading advice to folks that are seeking help and answers for issues with their rigs the please peddle your wares elsewhere.
That said, what ZACTLY do you think the SS is on there for?
Fergie
Expedition Leader
SPOBI stands for Stop Putting Out Bogus Information. It is from another Jeep site that I used to frequent...the exact origin is unclear. My information is far from erroneous.
Cost savings has nothing to do with how the steering system, and suspension system works. The function of the SS is independent of the function of the steering and suspension. If you remove the SS, the steering and suspension will FUNCTION the same. You will FEEL more feedback from the road and your tires, but everything will cycle the same.
I read both, and still think you are incorrect. You have some convincing conjecture, but your initial assumptions are incorrect, and your correlations between the cause and effect, while close, don't quite hit the mark.
If you want to discuss it technically then by all means lets do so, I welcome the discourse. But if your goal is to come on here and give erroneous and misleading advice to folks that are seeking help and answers for issues with their rigs the please peddle your wares elsewhere.
That said, what ZACTLY do you think the SS is on there for?
The SS is there as a comfort item. Things such as pot holes, and to quote you, "creases" in the road, produce a lot of feedback through the steering and suspension system. This is often times violent, and for the unsuspecting drive, quite startling. The SS is used to minimize this feedback.
Answer me this:
Why do you think a heavier duty, or dual SS eliminates DW?
SavageSunJeep
Adventurer
1) The only bogus info is your SS opinions. Like many out there who know someone or read it on some latrine wall you think it true...Got news for you, its NOT!
2) Maybe I did not make myself clear, so I will try it again. If the SS was as worthless as you seem to think, the auto makers the WORLD over could and WOULD save $Millions and NOT install it. I can assure you in these desperate auto times the SS would get chopped quicker than the proverbial screen door on a submarine.
3) Frankly, after reading you diatribe of the past 2 posts I can only say, I am wasting my time because a technical engineering discussion will take 2 and right now I am 1 short.
4) You continue to believe as you see fit but as you say "SPOBI". In fact I consider it near criminal if not so. There may be some unsuspecting person looking for help who follows your advice and that leads to catastrophic failure of man and machine...my advice to you, is DON'T! It is just plain dangerous.
5) I will even give you the benefit of the doubt here and suggest that you personally contact all the auto manufacturers of the world and tell them how you can save them money. I would offer up a 10% consulting fee for the amount of money you save...that should make you one very RICH fellow.
6) The rest of you can make your choice, its either a 'comfort' item or indeed it is a part of a suspension that many engineers before me said it NEEDS to be there...maybe its just to make the suspension system feel good...:coffeedrink: I am outta here.
ExpoMike
Well-known member
Based on everything I have read and 25 years of working with suspension related stuff, I agree with everything Fergie is saying. A SS is a "comfort" item and not a requirement. It lessens the shock the driver feels and in turn, is less tiring to drive. I have driven many vehicles that do not have a SS and you do feel more of the road. In some cases that's a good thing, in others not so much.
As for the OP problem with DW, it is almost 100% of the time some worn out component(s) in the suspension and/or steering system. Most people fail to realize that many who have DW issues, have vehicles that are many years old and typically have a lot of mileage on them. Guess what, these parts end up having a lot of wear, even if outside apperences might look good. Then you start adding aftermarket parts, doing modifications outside of factory parts or specs and then they are surprised when they start having other issues.
The OP has already said the pass. side BJ's are worn out. Who knows what else. The unit bearing could have some play, the tie rod ends could be just a little loose, etc., etc. Now you added a brand new aftermarket trackbar, which doesn't have the same flex as stock and now all these other worn out parts becomes more noticeable, showing up as DW.
These suspensions are not rocket science but they also can't be worn out either.
ExpoMike
Well-known member
I think you are not seeing the whole picture here. Does a SS "NEED" to be there? NO! Will the general public accept having the steering wheel pulled from the grip when they hit a large pot hole, rock, etc.? No. It's not about cost savings but what the public will accept and buy. The SS is NOT part of the suspension but works WITH the suspension (actually steering would be more acurate).
Your post come across like many I have read regarding removal of swaybars. You get the neh sayers swearing that you will flip your Jeep if you remove them. Wrong!!! If you drive like an idiot, then you will but having done it, no it does not automatically cause a flip. You have to adjust your driving style to compensate for it and there is less margin for error but it's nothing to do with it being unsafe.
I stand by my statements above and say it is relating to worn out parts, some of which may not be obvious.
adventureduo
Dave Druck [KI6LBB]
James, i think your steering wheel needs balancing. That's what's causing the DW
Maximus Ram
Expedition Leader
well, I'm gonna go with my original and say ball joints. I believe all of the other components have been dealt with and the ball joints are the last piece.I change everything on my XJ and the final component was the ball joints.
maybe check the headlight fluid, one side might be low and be causing and in-balance in the weight distribution....lol
DW is like haveing an electrical gliche, you have to chase it until its found.
maybe check the headlight fluid, one side might be low and be causing and in-balance in the weight distribution....lol
DW is like haveing an electrical gliche, you have to chase it until its found.
JChatary
Outdoor Daydreamer
Nope....I actually had my headlights topped off last week. :xxrotflma