2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[onemanarmy]

They do make that. It's called the Mahindra Roxor and it costs under $30K loaded.

No they don't, not legal for US roads anyways.

My point is, it's freaking Land Rover. Not Honda or Kia. The world is saturated with IFS / IRS unibody soft roaders. Even Land Rover has 5 or 6 of them already. They took the defender name and bastardized it...same with the new Blazer from Chevy and heaven help us what the new Bronco ends up being. Yea, the new Defender has some tech to make it decent offroad and ticks some boxes for us, but why rely on tech? The parts exist, in the LR arsenal, to make a better attempt than this. If you want power seats and an electronic shifter for the trans and screens, get a stripped down Discovery. That will fit the bill for skiers, dirt roaders, beaches, and farm paths. Take the millions spent on that terrible front end design and fancy LED taillight array, square it up with some $8 regular headlights and taillights, and call it good. I can't imagine the hundreds of design and engineering hours that went into that bodywork, all the while the design existed, just needed some tweaks.

But it's got a steel wheel option, so I guess it's ok.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[mpinco]

A claim of 40 mpg is highly suspect.....but would expect it to be more than the current diesels with all the emissions equip....but 40, not a chance unless he's hyper-mileing or unique driving situation....

Its a 85 that is "light-weight" compared to today's luxo RR's. Drive a early 80's RRC and you will understand.

 

[DieselRanger]

I've never understood this. I've never, in all my years over multiple vehicles, Toyota trucks, Dodge pickups, full size Chevy trucks, Land Cruiers, etc, felt the need for more power down low when in low range with any of my gas vehicles. They have plenty to break axles and tear up drivelines as is. The diesels definitely have a different "feel" to them, more direct and more connected, but wouldn't necessarily call that an advantage.

Now fuel consumption while idling and crawling along....HUGE advantage based on what I've seen.

The feel of a turbodiesel is effortless. The delivery is so smooth at low speed - many NA gas engines you have to keep the revs high in the power and in low gear with the diffs locked, but diesels just pull. You don't need so much to drag boulders or pull stumps. But yeah, the range is extremely important too.

 

[DieselRanger]

No they don't, not legal for US roads anyways.

Exactly my point. What you want doesn't meet collision, fuel economy, or emissions standards, so if you want one cheap, buy a Mahindra and a trailer and enjoy.

 

[DieselRanger]

Seriously?

It's not the "wires", it's the computers controlling them. The 8.4AN in my Ram is pretty flawless however every 5000 miles or so it will do something weird and I have to do a soft reset to get it to act right. How do you do that to a steering computer that has an internal battery that preserves the memory when you disconnect the main battery?

Again, the computers are extremely reliable. They don't break. The ones in the Defender are also waterproofed.

 

[JeepColorado]

No they don't, not legal for US roads anyways.

My point is, it's freaking Land Rover. Not Honda or Kia. The world is saturated with IFS / IRS unibody soft roaders. Even Land Rover has 5 or 6 of them already. They took the defender name and bastardized it...same with the new Blazer from Chevy and heaven help us what the new Bronco ends up being. Yea, the new Defender has some tech to make it decent offroad and ticks some boxes for us, but why rely on tech? The parts exist, in the LR arsenal, to make a better attempt than this. If you want power seats and an electronic shifter for the trans and screens, get a stripped down Discovery. That will fit the bill for skiers, dirt roaders, beaches, and farm paths. Take the millions spent on that terrible front end design and fancy LED taillight array, square it up with some $8 regular headlights and taillights, and call it good. I can't imagine the hundreds of design and engineering hours that went into that bodywork, all the while the design existed, just needed some tweaks.

But it's got a steel wheel option, so I guess it's ok.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

This is how I see it as well. It's not that I'm anti-tech regarding air springs and electronic traction control. I like Jeep's approach- the Grand Cherokee has tons of tech, air springs and traction control- it's pretty good and has been reliable, but Jeep keeps the Wrangler wild- it's rowdy, fun and real. We don't need another soft roader- there's plenty of those- there's only a few name plates that really speak to 4x4 roots. The Defender is one of them. LR could have easily kept it simpler, more core- the 4Runner is that, The Wrangler is that. Anyone who thinks there isn't a market for this type of vehicle should take a look at the sales numbers of those vehicles. LR has plenty of soft SUVs that give the faintest of a nod to off-roading- why not balance that portfolio with something actually true to the roots- not uncomfortable- Jeeps aren't- not unsafe on the road- Toyota's aren't, but true to the spirit of 4x4. I would have liked to see more commitment to the heritage LR uses to market itself.

 

[JeepColorado]

2020 Land Rover Defender vs Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Specs Comparison - Motor Trend

We can't wait for a full comparison test between the all-new 2020 Land Rover Defender and the Jeep Wrangler, so here's how they stack up on paper!

www.motortrend.com

Interesting article.

 

[TexasTJ]

Found a good picture of the 90 with out the floating pillar. Looks better.

 

[GetOutThere]

Sucks that in Canada we can't select the base model. Our pricing starts with the "S" trim level. Sigh.

Edit: I also can't find the roof top tent, winch, or white contrast roof anywhere.

 

[DieselRanger]

This is how I see it as well. It's not that I'm anti-tech regarding air springs and electronic traction control. I like Jeep's approach- the Grand Cherokee has tons of tech, air springs and traction control- it's pretty good and has been reliable, but Jeep keeps the Wrangler wild- it's rowdy, fun and real. We don't need another soft roader- there's plenty of those- there's only a few name plates that really speak to 4x4 roots. The Defender is one of them. LR could have easily kept it simpler, more core- the 4Runner is that, The Wrangler is that. Anyone who thinks there isn't a market for this type of vehicle should take a look at the sales numbers of those vehicles. LR has plenty of soft SUVs that give the faintest of a nod to off-roading- why not balance that portfolio with something actually true to the roots- not uncomfortable- Jeeps aren't- not unsafe on the road- Toyota's aren't, but true to the spirit of 4x4. I would have liked to see more commitment to the heritage LR uses to market itself.

It's not that there isn't a market for a simple, cheap off-roaders, it's just not Land Rover's market. You want rowdy, that's Jeep, and that's America. It's spiking the ball and chugging a beer at the top of Everest. You want refined and a stiff upper lip, that's British and Land Rover. It's summiting Everest in wool gabardines while sipping a Scotch.

And you can keep calling the Defender a soft-roader as if it's an Outback, and it doesn't matter how many videos you see to the contrary or what specs you read about how stiff and strong its chassis is or how many you see crawling in Moab the next time you're there, you're just not going to believe that it is the hard-core 4x4 that it is.

 

[DieselRanger]

Sucks that in Canada we can't select the base model. Our pricing starts with the "S" trim level. Sigh.

Edit: I also can't find the roof top tent, winch, or white contrast roof anywhere.

White contrast roof only comes on two colors as far as I can tell, green and blue.

Try the Ownership --> Accessories --> Defender page. No prices yet though.

 

[nickw]

The feel of a turbodiesel is effortless. The delivery is so smooth at low speed - many NA gas engines you have to keep the revs high in the power and in low gear with the diffs locked, but diesels just pull. You don't need so much to drag boulders or pull stumps. But yeah, the range is extremely important too.

That not true. There are lots of NA gas engines that have good torque numbers, in many cases exceeding those of the diesels in the same vehicle at sim RPM.

Back to the discussion though, the newer turbo gas engines make more torque at a lower RPM than diesels did a handful of years ago. They are not down on power.

Now there is an argument that diesels behave better, are more responsive and more crisp at lower RPM, but that is not Torque or power related.

 

[nickw]

No they don't, not legal for US roads anyways.

My point is, it's freaking Land Rover. Not Honda or Kia. The world is saturated with IFS / IRS unibody soft roaders. Even Land Rover has 5 or 6 of them already. They took the defender name and bastardized it...same with the new Blazer from Chevy and heaven help us what the new Bronco ends up being. Yea, the new Defender has some tech to make it decent offroad and ticks some boxes for us, but why rely on tech? The parts exist, in the LR arsenal, to make a better attempt than this. If you want power seats and an electronic shifter for the trans and screens, get a stripped down Discovery. That will fit the bill for skiers, dirt roaders, beaches, and farm paths. Take the millions spent on that terrible front end design and fancy LED taillight array, square it up with some $8 regular headlights and taillights, and call it good. I can't imagine the hundreds of design and engineering hours that went into that bodywork, all the while the design existed, just needed some tweaks.

But it's got a steel wheel option, so I guess it's ok.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

You can street legalize the Roxors in many states.

Nothing inherently wrong with IFS and IRS, I can think of a few military rigs that use it on their primary vehicles.

 

[nickw]

Its a 85 that is "light-weight" compared to today's luxo RR's. Drive a early 80's RRC and you will understand.

But its shaped like a brick. I'm assuming 40 mpg is downhill or flat pancake, both of which are more reliant on good aerodynamics than weight....

 

[Kaikandojo]

I already commented about how impressed I am with what Land Rover did with the Defender. Well done! (and I'm a 100 series LC owner and fanboy)

My add for today is that we all should be celebrating the new Defender. The Defender steps up the level of competition in a very good way.

For the Toyota owners (myself included)... How many LC and 4R owners are on this forum who are tired of waiting for Toyota to update their platforms? How many years have the forums had rumor threads about when the next gens will finally get here? How many on this forum have said they would buy an FJC if Toyota would just do it? Set aside the debate on whether this 2020 Defender will be as reliable as a 1985 Defender, and enjoy the engineering, technology, and innovation in this new model. Yea the 4R got Apple CarPlay and the LC got a body kit...in 2020. Yea we have a TRD Rav4 and 2021 may bring the TJ Cruiser van.

Let's keep it real though... Land Rover isn't a cute British carmaker updating their heritage model for a weekend drive in the bog. This is TATA MOTORS asserting themselves on the world stage and recouping their investment. Tata is the world's 4th largest truck & bus manufacturer and Tata's JLR has 10% of the global premium vehicle market. I fully expect to see aspects of the Defender feed into Tata's global platforms as they go after Toyota's grip in Asia, Australia, Africa, and Latin America. (if you're curious, look at the Tata Safari, seems like a Discovery).

Hopefully the Defender will be a wake up for Toyota as their expedition-oriented models sit sandwiched between Wrangler/Gladiator on one side and Defender on the other. Similar to the threat Ranger poses to Tacoma sales, I'm sure Ford is taking notes for their Bronco. Personally, I'm hoping that Toyota's strategy all along has been to see what Jeep, Land Rover, and Ford do first, and then unveil something amazing (or hopefully several something amazings...?).

Let's celebrate that Tata's Land Rover's all-in commitment to the Defender platform will only help to move the off-road capable segment ahead. Competition is a very, very good thing.