2020 Defender Spy Shots....
- Thread starter NYCRover
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TOUGE
Active member
No diesel for the US market.
I saw a winch as an option but it wasn't going to be available till 2021!
nickw
Adventurer
Reliability vs longevity.....a rig doesn't need to have both. Time will tell, but nobody knows (including yourself) how well this rig will fare down the road.
Scott wrote a great article about longevity, reliability and durability several years back....it would be a good read for you to catch up with the rest of us.
T-Willy
Well-known member
Jesus.
nickw
Adventurer
Same thought I had....
DieselRanger
Well-known member
OK, so after a couple days of reading everything and playing around with the configurator, here's my take:
- Wish they'd put the 90 on the configurator to play with that. In the past JLR has harvested pre-release configurator use to help determine how to equip factory build allotments.
- I love the looks and the capability - better approach/departure angles than the Discovery but same break-over. Same Terrain Response 2 system, but the configurable nature of the diffs, throttle response, etc is a bonus. High dynamic load on the roof - yeah, they rated it at 300+ lbs, but we saw the testing with them vastly exceeding that number. 320lb limit or whatever is likely to meet rollover safety certification restrictions.
- Interior is cool - seats look utilitarian. I love the D5 seats - the bolstering is great for off-roading, the Defender seats look like they're designed for easier egress/ingress vs. stability/comfort.
- No diesel at launch. Bummer. Hopefully the Inline 6 Ingenium turbodiesel shows up eventually. I don't like the 4cyl Ingenium diesels.
- That said, the P400 performance numbers are compelling - good hp/tq numbers and it's an inline 6 with an electric supercharger, so it should be smooth and easy to do things like change spark plugs. Performance at altitude will still be a bit restricted since superchargers only compress relative to atmospheric pressure. I don't think the mild hybrid will help range very much - seems optimized for emissions by helping out in launch / low torque situations. I wonder if CARB has scared LR off diesels as they have other automakers.
- Can't get the 18" white steelies with the P400. I wonder if the brakes are larger for the larger engine? All versions of the Defendershould must come with an 18" wheel/tire option. I like the steelies - they should be cheap too.
- The snorkel does not change the wading depth per the configurator so it's of no use to me. But it comes with the Explorer Pack. Hopefully it's easily user-installable and removable. EDIT: "Nick Rogers also confirmed to C/D that the external air intake has been designed so an accessory snorkel will fit straight onto it." Ok, so now I'm confused. Is it a snorkel or isn't it?
- The side mounted cargo box is "not designed to be removed once installed" according to the configurator. Hm. Was hoping that would come with some kind of universal mount that would allow it to be swapped with Rotopax units for example. Oh well, there are still rear tire mount kits to add those as well as hitch mount options.
- Many accessories not available at launch - rock sliders, winch, lights, RTT (hopefully with an aero shell). Hopefully those show up, but the Lucky8 guys will get to work ASAP on that I'm sure.
- I like that it comes with a wrap option from the factory to provide some protection against brush and stones. Don't know how it will age though.
I'm excited about it. I generally end up with a 110 build that's about the same price as my D5. I might consider a D90 though as my next vehicle...we'll end up with an EV sedan for our "town car" and Mama's daily driver. I need a midlife crisis fun mobile....
- Wish they'd put the 90 on the configurator to play with that. In the past JLR has harvested pre-release configurator use to help determine how to equip factory build allotments.
- I love the looks and the capability - better approach/departure angles than the Discovery but same break-over. Same Terrain Response 2 system, but the configurable nature of the diffs, throttle response, etc is a bonus. High dynamic load on the roof - yeah, they rated it at 300+ lbs, but we saw the testing with them vastly exceeding that number. 320lb limit or whatever is likely to meet rollover safety certification restrictions.
- Interior is cool - seats look utilitarian. I love the D5 seats - the bolstering is great for off-roading, the Defender seats look like they're designed for easier egress/ingress vs. stability/comfort.
- No diesel at launch. Bummer. Hopefully the Inline 6 Ingenium turbodiesel shows up eventually. I don't like the 4cyl Ingenium diesels.
- That said, the P400 performance numbers are compelling - good hp/tq numbers and it's an inline 6 with an electric supercharger, so it should be smooth and easy to do things like change spark plugs. Performance at altitude will still be a bit restricted since superchargers only compress relative to atmospheric pressure. I don't think the mild hybrid will help range very much - seems optimized for emissions by helping out in launch / low torque situations. I wonder if CARB has scared LR off diesels as they have other automakers.
- Can't get the 18" white steelies with the P400. I wonder if the brakes are larger for the larger engine? All versions of the Defender
- The snorkel does not change the wading depth per the configurator so it's of no use to me. But it comes with the Explorer Pack. Hopefully it's easily user-installable and removable. EDIT: "Nick Rogers also confirmed to C/D that the external air intake has been designed so an accessory snorkel will fit straight onto it." Ok, so now I'm confused. Is it a snorkel or isn't it?
- The side mounted cargo box is "not designed to be removed once installed" according to the configurator. Hm. Was hoping that would come with some kind of universal mount that would allow it to be swapped with Rotopax units for example. Oh well, there are still rear tire mount kits to add those as well as hitch mount options.
- Many accessories not available at launch - rock sliders, winch, lights, RTT (hopefully with an aero shell). Hopefully those show up, but the Lucky8 guys will get to work ASAP on that I'm sure.
- I like that it comes with a wrap option from the factory to provide some protection against brush and stones. Don't know how it will age though.
I'm excited about it. I generally end up with a 110 build that's about the same price as my D5. I might consider a D90 though as my next vehicle...we'll end up with an EV sedan for our "town car" and Mama's daily driver. I need a midlife crisis fun mobile....
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
Configurable Terrain Response option also controls the locking behavior.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
No diesel *yet* for the market. At launch NA just gets the gas engines. Car and Driver says LR told them one of the 4cyl Ingenium diesels will come to the US eventually. I wonder if JLR has given up on the 6cyl Ingenium turbodiesel....
DieselRanger
Well-known member
nickw
Adventurer
The more reading I do the more I think LR hit this out of the park. I've owned Audi's in the past, my latest one (2018 SQ5) had the air suspension which worked great and was reliable, I think most of the bugs got worked out over the previous years. Back to the LR though....
1) Water fording depth, stock - 3', impressive.
2) Electrical connections designed for water submersion.
3) Payload capacity that exceeds landcruisers...significantly.
4) Departure, approach and breakover angles that competes with, or exceeds, many other vehicles.
5) Ground clearance galore.
6) Accessories galore.
We could argue reliability, longevity, durability, etc....the fact is based on what we know and it's design philosophy, it's going to be a solid rig, as most of LR's vehicles have been over the last 10 years.
I'm a big fan of the IRS, no reason, if done properly, that it won't stand up to abuse and live a long life, many benefits also.
This really hits that perfect blend of offroad, road, livability and luxury.....I think the price is right where it should be.
This really gives the LC's a run for their money as a global expedition platform moving forward....
1) Water fording depth, stock - 3', impressive.
2) Electrical connections designed for water submersion.
3) Payload capacity that exceeds landcruisers...significantly.
4) Departure, approach and breakover angles that competes with, or exceeds, many other vehicles.
5) Ground clearance galore.
6) Accessories galore.
We could argue reliability, longevity, durability, etc....the fact is based on what we know and it's design philosophy, it's going to be a solid rig, as most of LR's vehicles have been over the last 10 years.
I'm a big fan of the IRS, no reason, if done properly, that it won't stand up to abuse and live a long life, many benefits also.
This really hits that perfect blend of offroad, road, livability and luxury.....I think the price is right where it should be.
This really gives the LC's a run for their money as a global expedition platform moving forward....
uzj100
Adventurer
Thank you for all the insights. Comparing to an 80, 100, 200 LC is interesting for sure. These platforms have proven reliability, durability, and longevity. The new Defender will make a great platform in countries like the USA that has great dealer network. I do not see it replacing the 70 series, military G wagen's or the other medium duty/heavy duty LC's used by major aid organizations. https://www.toyota-gib.com/eng/vehicle-sales/models-by-usage.html
Using the configurator for build data is genius. Get real insights from potential buyers. I hope they allow piece by piece ordering and package ordering and move away from the USA way of doing packages only that include a lot of options people would never purchase.
Using the configurator for build data is genius. Get real insights from potential buyers. I hope they allow piece by piece ordering and package ordering and move away from the USA way of doing packages only that include a lot of options people would never purchase.
nickw
Adventurer
Remember though, LR has said this is a "global" platform, so it should a good solution if traveling to NA, SA, Europe, UK and N Africa. While I agree that it won't replace the 70's, mil spec Gwagen and Patrols, it's nipping on the heels of rigs like the 80, 100 and 200's IMO.
Good call on the data collection for the configurator....
catmann
Active member
These are some pretty good MPG ratings - I wonder if they will pan out in the real world...
"At launch, diesel power comes from a choice of four-cylinder D200 or D240 engines, with sequential twin turbo technology providing 430Nm of torque to optimise performance and economy. The D200 delivers fuel economy of 37.2mpg (7.6 l/100km) and 0-100km/h in 10.3 seconds (0-60mph in 9.9 seconds) while the more powerful D240 matches the 200PS for efficiency while accelerating from 0-100km/h in 9.1 seconds (0-60mph in 8.7 seconds). Both provide competitive CO2 emissions of 199g/km (NEDC equivalent).º
Petrol customers will be able to choose between a turbocharged four-cylinder P300 engine and an efficient six-cylinder P400 MHEV powertrain. The 300HP unit uses an advanced twin-scroll turbo for smooth performance and efficiency, accelerating from 0-100km/h in 8.1 seconds (0-60mph in 7.7 seconds) with CO2 emissions as low as 227g/km (NEDC equivalent).º
The state-of-the-art MHEV powertrain harvests energy normally lost during deceleration and redeploys it to optimise efficiency. The in-line six-cylinder Ingenium petrol features both a conventional twin-scroll turbocharger and an advanced 48-volt electric supercharger, with a belt-integrated starter motor in place of the alternator to assist the petrol engine, and a 48-volt lithium-ion battery to store energy captured as the vehicle slows down. In combination, these advanced technologies provide 400HP and 550Nm of torque, 0-100km/h in 6.4 seconds (0-60mph in 6.1 seconds) and fuel consumption as low as 29.4mpg (9.6l/100km) with CO2 emissions of 220g/km (NEDC equivalent).º"
uzj100
Adventurer
Hopefully it is a wake up call for Toyota.
I would never even consider treating the new defender how we have wheeled 80s and 100s and still using them as daily drivers 5 and 10 years later. Not computing yet.
nickw
Adventurer
I don't disagree, but less we forget....if we turn the clock back 20 years....we had the same discussion about the 100. I remember folks talking about how bad the 100 was, worthless offroad, IFS is garbage, won't hold up. I actually remember a somewhat similar discussion with the 80's in the late 90's / early 2000's, soccer mom rigs, not real cruisers, weak 8" front diff., AWD is not good, etc...
Toyota could easily do something along the lines of this....not too dissimilar to that niche the FJ fit in. They are really going to be sweating once the new Bronco comes out since they are lacking that "enthusiast" rig, and lets be honest, Toyota guys are the biggest enthusiasts of them all....
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