40+ Imported Defenders seized by Homeland Security Today (developing story)

[thedjjack]

and such began the.... WAR ON TRUCKS

 

[REDrum]

This really isn't the core issue here in this specific case. That's the overarching regulation that set the conditions for this to happen, but isn't why today (yesterday) happened. The regulation itself is just governmental prose reflecting the federal government's constitutionally provided authority to regulate international commerce. If you don't like it, as was stated, change the law-though that will be difficult since you'll have to overcome resistance from domestic auto producers.

What happened with the seizures is the continuation of an investigation into what appears to be the illegal actions of an importer (wittingly, or otherwise) in conjunction with others trying to meet the demand in the US as the 25yr rule started to allow 90's/110's to be imported and since, to the layperson, they all look the same it was fairly easy to get in all manner of vehicles. The effort the DHS is applying, which is incorrectly being labeled a national security issue or whatever other rhetoric folks want to apply, is mostly likely because other law enforcement entities are involved (i.e. from the UK) where some of these vehicles were stolen, re-VIN'd, and then shipped here.

In essence this isn't about Obama, its not about Rick Perry guarding the border, or Gadsden flags, etc-it's about criminal activity in conjunction with international commerce and unfortunately at the far end of that line there are innocent people holding potential evidence.
r-
RAy

Amen!

 

[pugslyyy]

This really isn't the core issue here in this specific case. That's the overarching regulation that set the conditions for this to happen, but isn't why today (yesterday) happened. The regulation itself is just governmental prose reflecting the federal government's constitutionally provided authority to regulate international commerce. If you don't like it, as was stated, change the law-though that will be difficult since you'll have to overcome resistance from domestic auto producers.

What happened with the seizures is the continuation of an investigation into what appears to be the illegal actions of an importer (wittingly, or otherwise) in conjunction with others trying to meet the demand in the US as the 25yr rule started to allow 90's/110's to be imported and since, to the layperson, they all look the same it was fairly easy to get in all manner of vehicles. The effort the DHS is applying, which is incorrectly being labeled a national security issue or whatever other rhetoric folks want to apply, is mostly likely because other law enforcement entities are involved (i.e. from the UK) where some of these vehicles were stolen, re-VIN'd, and then shipped here.

In essence this isn't about Obama, its not about Rick Perry guarding the border, or Gadsden flags, etc-it's about criminal activity in conjunction with international commerce and unfortunately at the far end of that line there are innocent people holding potential evidence.
r-
RAy

Also worth pointing out that it had to have been a slippery slope - regardless of where it ended up I'm fairly certain this started as a legitimate enterprise importing vehicles that met the letter and spirit of the 25 year rule.

You are in business to make money and give customers what they want, so the temptation is there to start becoming a bit more creative with the vehicle importation process and the way you source your vehicles, because there just isn't a ready supply of 25 year old 110s in decent shape available for sale in the UK.

They just became too successful to be ignored any longer, IMHO.

 

[Dolomiti]

from defender-source

Originally Posted by stobbie
I've heard about a few seizures as well..

"A friend of mine from Switserland has sold his 1986 110 V8 to the US about a year ago.
It was a 100% original car, which he had bought new himself in 1986.
it was seized yesterday.
They did not use one off the well known defender importers but they have arranged everything themselves as much as possible.

I also know off two other seizures, a Dutch 110 V8, and a Swiss 90 2.5 N/A diesel, both original cars with no modifications and not imported by one off the bigger names."

 

[REDrum]

HOWEVER, I do on a fundamental level disagree with the import law. I don't see the reason for the 25 year restriction in today's car world. Its not as if we are at risk of millions of people getting behind the wheel of imported death machines. There should be a way for collectors and enthusiasts to maybe individually import one non-exempt vehicle every 5 years or something like that. Civil liberties, so on and so forth.

I do not disagree Adam, but the safety laws that are in place, as others have stated here, are not just about safety. There is quite a bit of US truck manufactures, thru political influence, making it costly for foreign truck makers to comply with US standards, and driving cost of market entry up. Land Rover could have spent the money back in the late 90s to get the Defender to comply, but they decided it wasn't a good business decision. So, as a result of Land Rover's decision, Defender trucks are considered non compliant and contraban in the US. If the average person knew how much political influence business has over how the legislative body of our government is run, torches and pitch forks would fill daily state capitals and DC. And, with the SJC ruling on Citizen United, its only going to get worse.

Anyone in the US can experience the nostalgia of the Land Rover that started it all, it just has to be 25 years old. IMO, when it comes to onerous government regulations, that ain't too bad of an exception loop hole.

I have the ability to own a late model Defender in Central America, but you couldn't give one to me. From experience, I find no cache in them.

 

[High Center]

Safety is only silly until someone gets seriously injured, then those who were snickering usually head straight to an attorneys office... Our transportation safety regulations are there for public safety. What happens when an insurance company deny claim because the truck wasn't what the owners claimed? How could CBP let this happen will be posted all over the nightly news.

Todays seizure has been looming for years. There have been way too many contraband 110s imported, under dubious conditions, over the past 10 years, this is a long time coming. Sorry people got duped.

Not trying to be a ******** here, but there is a flip side to this story.

I understand the need for a loose framework of safety regulations in the larger sense- what I don't agree with or see the point in, is the run away nature of regulatory agencies when given US Code fiat. This is bureaucratic violence, plain and simple. No one involved in this thinks that they have saved lives by taking those trucks off of the road- which is the intent of the code...right? Safety....

I have seen it my entire career: Bored, unconcerned (often undereducated on the issue) officers hunting ways to enforce minutia.

 

[pugslyyy]

I understand the need for a loose framework of safety regulations in the larger sense- what I don't agree with or see the point in, is the run away nature of regulatory agencies when given US Code fiat. This is bureaucratic violence, plain and simple. No one involved in this thinks that they have saved lives by taking those trucks off of the road- which is the intent of the code...right? Safety....

I have seen it my entire career: Bored, unconcerned (often undereducated on the issue) officers hunting ways to enforce minutia.

I think in this case the policies are more protectionist than anything else.

I can understand the US auto sellers wanting a level playing field - they would argue that they have to meet DOT, EPA, etc standards and it isn't fair on them if the US allows the import of vehicles that don't meet the specifications that they are forced to comply with.

Where the argument falls apart is the EU has regulations are just as stringent - it's just that they are different. We can't even agree on simple things like turn signals, headlight patterns, etc.

There have been efforts underway for years to harmonize EU and NA regulations, but there are vested interests against ever seeing that happen. Remember, Corporations are people too - they just have a lot more money than we do.

 

[Dolomiti]

Mercedes Benz NA was the force behind these laws. They were sick of nicer euro mercs being gray marketed during the 1980s.

I think in this case the policies are more protectionist than anything else.

I can understand the US auto sellers wanting a level playing field - they would argue that they have to meet DOT, EPA, etc standards and it isn't fair on them if the US allows the import of vehicles that don't meet the specifications that they are forced to comply with.

Where the argument falls apart is the EU has regulations are just as stringent - it's just that they are different. We can't even agree on simple things like turn signals, headlight patterns, etc.

There have been efforts underway for years to harmonize EU and NA regulations, but there are vested interests against ever seeing that happen. Remember, Corporations are people too - they just have a lot more money than we do.

 

[High Center]

This really isn't the core issue here in this specific case. That's the overarching regulation that set the conditions for this to happen, but isn't why today (yesterday) happened. The regulation itself is just governmental prose reflecting the federal government's constitutionally provided authority to regulate international commerce. If you don't like it, as was stated, change the law-though that will be difficult since you'll have to overcome resistance from domestic auto producers.

What happened with the seizures is the continuation of an investigation into what appears to be the illegal actions of an importer (wittingly, or otherwise) in conjunction with others trying to meet the demand in the US as the 25yr rule started to allow 90's/110's to be imported and since, to the layperson, they all look the same it was fairly easy to get in all manner of vehicles. The effort the DHS is applying, which is incorrectly being labeled a national security issue or whatever other rhetoric folks want to apply, is mostly likely because other law enforcement entities are involved (i.e. from the UK) where some of these vehicles were stolen, re-VIN'd, and then shipped here.

In essence this isn't about Obama, its not about Rick Perry guarding the border, or Gadsden flags, etc-it's about criminal activity in conjunction with international commerce and unfortunately at the far end of that line there are innocent people holding potential evidence.
r-
RAy

Ray,

Is the stolen car nexus a guess or do you know that? The reason I ask is that I can't see ALL of those trucks being seized on the chance that they may have been illicitly acquired....
If that is the case then this is an interesting precedent. Not to say that I wouldn't put it past my Customs brethren to use such a draconian sledgehammer...

 

[High Center]

I think in this case the policies are more protectionist than anything else.

I can understand the US auto sellers wanting a level playing field - they would argue that they have to meet DOT, EPA, etc standards and it isn't fair on them if the US allows the import of vehicles that don't meet the specifications that they are forced to comply with.

Where the argument falls apart is the EU has regulations are just as stringent - it's just that they are different. We can't even agree on simple things like turn signals, headlight patterns, etc.

There have been efforts underway for years to harmonize EU and NA regulations, but there are vested interests against ever seeing that happen. Remember, Corporations are people too - they just have a lot more money than we do.

Probably a valid point here-

The guise of the regulation(s) is safety though- at its heart.

either way you approach it- it is bureaucratic violence.

 

[Ray_G]

Ray,

Is the stolen car nexus a guess or do you know that? The reason I ask is that I can't see ALL of those trucks being seized on the chance that they may have been illicitly acquired....
If that is the case then this is an interesting precedent. Not to say that I wouldn't put it past my Customs brethren to use such a draconian sledgehammer...

What I know is based off other prominent members of this tight knit community and my own time in it since ~2004 (i.e. long before the 25 year rule started to make 83/84's eligible); so I wouldn't call it factual but I would also point out that the primary point of departure for this appears to be a sole importer who was raided amidst a criminal probe. The reports of other vehicles, not affiliated, being rolled up may prove that position wrong-in which case I would say what you're seeing is unprecedented.

If it does tie back to the possibility of stolen or otherwise illegal vehicles primarily imported by, or affiliated with, the ongoing investigation than this is what one would expect. Gather evidence, conduct raid, process evidence->build case->conduct further raids to gather more evidence and determine extent of misconduct.

All of which means a lot of folks who bought in good faith are holding the bag.

r-
Ray

 

[A.J.M]

From Uk side, finding a 25 year old 90/110 with original chassis is not an easy thing!
Many get rebuilt on galvanised, I have 4 friends who all have 2/300tdi engined 90s from 92-96 era. 3 are on galvanised chassis now.

Curiously, I've seen a few rebuilds for us markets featured in LRM, they had all new paint, wheels, interiors and one had a 2001 TD5 110 rear tub fitted at the original one was too far gone.

That one had a price build of £30,000 plus I think.
I still have the issues so could look them out if people are curious how they were made in the UK.
Both were 110 station wagons, one was grey and the other was a deep dark blue.

 

[proper4wd]

As this continues to unfold it appears that possibly all of the seizures are tied to GB4x4, formerly an importer/dealer in North Carolina. Supposedly Aaron Richardet, owner of said dealership, is the subject of a Federal investigation dating back to early 2013 when his facility was raided and many vehicles/items were seized (there was significant media coverage of this at the time).

It has been said that this investigation revolves largely around the sale of VIN-swapped vehicles - for example a 2005 Defender 110 with the VIN tag from a 1985 110.

Without knowing the underlying details of the underlying investigation, it's impossible to understand how far reaching this may be.

Based on the rampant spate of Defender thefts in the UK, it's possible that Aaron Richardet/GB4x4 may have been knowingly or unknowingly involved in the smuggling of stolen vehicles and/or parts from the UK to the USA. This would essentially amount to being part of an international auto theft ring.

This, if true, certainly has much more significant implications than simply importing a non-compliant vehicle.

The Land Rover community will have to wait and see how this continues to unfold. In the meantime, potential buyers and owners of imported 90/110 Land Rovers would be well advised to educate themselves or seek guidance/counsel.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

If you own a Defender with a VIN that doesn't start SALD, best to hunker down and prepare for the worst.

You realize that you made me go home and look, right?

Whew! So far so good.

I think I'll stick with leaf springs any way

 

[roverandom]

Land Roves have always been stolen in the UK. Easy to steal, easy to part out and valuable. It has intensified lately to the US but lots of parts used to go to the EU.

As long as there is a demand, there will be those that will try to supply. If the unreasonable import laws were relaxed there would be legal (ie Uncle Sam gets his cut) avenues to get these vehicles.





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