40+ Imported Defenders seized by Homeland Security Today (developing story)

[thedjjack]

Here in Canada we have a 15 year rule for importing without meeting "safety".... There was a 5 year campaign by the Dealers Association (and I suspect others) to change the law to 25 years. Safety was one main reason given. But at the end of the day it was really about protecting the market.

I find the safety argument pointless if I can still purchase a new motorcycle.....

I get that there is some serious problems with some of the imports... but seizing everything. I am interested what will happen to legally imported 3 years ago, but replaced the frame or motor in USA after ownership. I suck at keeping receipts and taking photos of my mods...

 

[Howski]

I will say it again - this thread is almost entirely misinformation over why these trucks have been seized. Unless you are directly involved in this, like I unfortunately am, be informed of the specifics of this seizure and this importer before you speak and continue to repeat incorrect information. It is about something much greater than any potential VIN swapping or vehicles not in original form, although this could certainly be a component.

 

[roverandom]

It's about Tax and protectionism. I'm just discussing the wider motivations for why you have has your car that you paid for taken away from you by your own government agency.

Now, I'm off to the USA to buy an assault rifle because they are legal south of the border. They need them to protect there liberties. Ironic.


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[proper4wd]

Land Roves have always been stolen in the UK. Easy to steal, easy to part out and valuable. It has intensified lately to the US but lots of parts used to go to the EU

The profit margins gained by selling these vehicles in the USA compared to the EU is huge. A hypothetical situation:

Stolen 2005 Defender 110 TD5, cost: $0
Legally purchased clapped out 1985 110, cost: 900 GBP
Time spent swapping VIN tag from 1985 onto 2005: 20 minutes

Greasing the palms of CBP officials at one port in North Carolina, cost: unknown?

Establishing a clearinghouse for your stolen wares in the USA where you can sell them to ravenous buyers at top dollar, priceless.

Time spent in Federal prison, 10+ years?

By no means do I know any of this to be fact however once you start to put the pieces together...

 

[Howski]

It's about Tax and protectionism.

This is absolutely untrue with this case. You clearly don't have a damn clue what you're talking about.

I believe Over Hill & Dale has hit the nail on the head with what's going on in this case

 

[roverandom]

I'm sorry you have had you vehicle taken away from you.

Sell a couple of hundred of ringer Defenders in the states to gullible folks is nothing compared to the $$$ made selling off the bits to a massive area where defenders are available and genuine parts are expensive.



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[Dolomiti]

Seems like the case, but what about the 2 Swiss Rovers which were stock and not tied to the NC shenanigans?

This is absolutely untrue with this case. You clearly don't have a damn clue what you're talking about.

Over Hill & Dale has hit the nail on the head with what's going on in this case

 

[proper4wd]

Sell a couple of hundred of ringer Defenders in the states to gullible folks is nothing compared to the $$$ made selling off the bits to a massive area where defenders are available and genuine parts are expensive.

From what we know right now, there are about 160 vehicles specified in the Federal warrants.

Based on the market at the time (circa 2010) and the types of vehicles involved, we could assume the average sale price of each vehicle was around $30k (and could likely have been higher).

160 x $30,000 = $4.8M

You could never see that kind of cash flow by parting out 160 Defenders.

CBP's response (highly coordinated, multi-state early morning raid) is starting to make sense.

 

[roverandom]

Some are ringers, others just extensively reworked but either way the sale price is not all free and clear profit. To steal and/or refit a defender has costs attached to it. Nobody takes those risks for peanuts.
Far easier and less risky on a large scale to strip and send them through Europe to the rest of the world instead of trying to get them past US customs that has a rabid fascination with destroying them.


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[Howski]

Far easier and less risky on a large scale to strip and send them through Europe to the rest of the world instead of trying to get them past US customs that has a rabid fascination with destroying them.

These vehicles were far less scrutinized prior to 2012, a likely reason these seizures are taking place now.

 

[proper4wd]

Some are ringers, others just extensively reworked but either way the sale price is not all free and clear profit. To steal and/or refit a defender has costs attached to it. Nobody takes those risks for peanuts.
Far easier and less risky on a large scale to strip and send them through Europe to the rest of the world instead of trying to get them past US customs that has a rabid fascination with destroying them.

From my point of view, I would do the opposite. I'll take minimal work (swapped VIN tag) for maximum profit (sold complete in the USA). To clear out 160 questionable vehicles for $4.8M takes only 160 transactions and would be relatively unseen by the government (used car dealers sell 160 vehicles per month quite frequently).

To take that many vehicles and part them out would take 100 times the effort, time, physical space, and would take probably 5000 transactions to clear out instead of just 160. At 5000 transactions you have developed a pretty large/extensive distribution and drawn a lot of attention to yourself.

Importing the hot Defenders through the port becomes particularly easy if you've bought yourself a "fast lane" through the CBP process. At this level of cash flow, it would make sense they had someone on the take. It would also explain CBP's delayed and dramatic response.

 

[roverandom]

Yes, but how much of the $30k average price ends up in someone's pocket?
You need a guy to pinch it.
A guy to hide it.
Swapping the vin with a pukka defender costs money.
You need to ship it.
Pay off anyone that needs paying off.
Then store it in the US until it sells.

An entire vehicle attracts a lot more interest than parts.

Or, you can steal and strip a defender very quickly due to its construction and then spirit it it away on Estonian freight lorries to wherever they are needed.

Americans are not the only ones that will pay through the nose for a Land Rover. Many other destinations also have the advantage of a less effective customs agency.

I've heard tales of defenders stripped down, shipped as spare parts and reassembled in South Africa.


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[proper4wd]

I completely understand that there are multiple avenues to profit from stolen Land Rovers... I think you can see the business case I've made for why some people would pursue exporting them through the USA given they had the right connections.

 

[SSF556]

So illegal defenders are more of a priority than illegals immigrants?

 

[Viggen]

So illegal defenders are more of a priority than illegals immigrants?

And there it is. I am shocked it took this place 9 pages to get there. We have this statement and a Canadian speaking poorly about the American system. Now, where is that Gadsden Flag? Where is the photo of the 55 gallon drum fill of MREs for when the evil government takes over?


Just think, the end of the world as we know it began with the seizure of Land Rover Defenders...