5-7 days in the back country of Death Valley....

[Superduty]

Some great advice here. if you haven't already, you can spend hours on the forum here and learn a ton.

Add Ubehebe Crater, Dante's View and artists drive to your itinerary.

 

[silvrzuki77]

You got some great advice do far!! Sounds like it’s going to be a awesome trip. Fortunately my dad in his early 70’s goes on all our trips in his H3. Like you my 3 boys love having grandpa around! There are a couple of kids books for Death Valley like “Who pooped in the park” now my kids are looking for animal scat every time we stop. Also preload a Offroad map program on his IPad and let him navigate.

Couple of suggestions I will throw in.
Liquid eggs!!!! Easier to buy some a premix or aget a stout container and scramble the eggs and dump in the container. Works great.

The water situation. Bring a hydration backpack. You can leave them when not in use on the back of your seats and those short hikes you will never be without water.

Also MIO water flavoring!! I keep them close by and gives everyone a choice versus plain water.

I would highly suggest heading to chloride city area. Lots of great historical sites and over lols the valley. Titus canyon is fun for a first time until a Subaru passes you lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Etoimos]

I'm on the fence about keeping your son occupied with electronics. The reason your out there is to have an adventure with those you care about. Involve him in your discoveries. Not saying to leave the digital home but rather use sparingly? That being said, I have no kids so maybe I should remain on the sidelines?

I totally get you on the use of devices on these kinds of trips. My plan is to involve him as much as possible and only allow very limited device time each day. I'm very lucky in the fact that he is an excellent traveler. Last year we did an 18 hour road trip to WI for the family vacation and he did not complain once. Of course he had is device for that trip, but I kept his attention outside as much as possible talking about and explaining what we were passing by.

Could you buy a small used trailer for that amount and sell it when you are done with it?

As an older guy being comfortable is more important to me than it used to be.

Three people,gear,just the supplies that can be carried in a jeep for X amount of time,doesn't sound very comfortable at camp.My suggestion is to not be ambitious on itinerary once in DV,have fun,don't forget the comfort factor.I appreciate what you are doing as my folks are gone.

I've been watching CL for a decent but not too expensive trailer that I'd feel comfortable dragging around to DV and I've yet to find anything. It is going to be a tight trip for the three of us, but I'm sure it will still be enjoyable.

I've laid out a full itinerary (which I'll post in another thread to keep this one semi on topic) but I'm well aware (and fine with) that we might not hit everything on it. I'd much rather not get to some planned stuff due to impromptu exploring or just taking it easy than finish the planned stuff and be like "what's next".

If you are simple on the food requirements, it is pretty easy to just do freeze dried backpacker meals for dinners, sandwiches, crackers, cheese, and sausage for lunch, and oatmeal breakfast. When I'm on a trip, I often take time to cook a bigger/better meal mid-day and then just to the snacks or sandwich at night.



Realistically, you can live on pre packaged junk food for a few days. That cooking style saves a ton of gear and difficulty, while making camp setup and tear down very easy.



I will re-iterate music and distractions for the kid. DV is hours and hours of driving with essentially the same scenery. After 4 days with my 7year old daughter, my dad and I were ready to consider strapping her to the roof rack! The best thing to bring along when you have a young kid is another young kid, but then they still want video games or something. Unless you plan on letting them drive... they will get bored.

We do have some of the Mountain House breakfast meals, so I'll most likely take those. I'm still undecided on how to approach dinners. What is your reasoning for doing the bigger meal in the middle of the day instead of at the end?

The point I was alluding to, was it is better to go minimal than it is not to go because you cant afford to go the way you want to go. 90% of the time, we dont need as much as we think we do.

100% agree with that.

Sounds like you are doing this trip for all the right reasons, and you are all going to have a blast.



A few random notes...



- You already know the weather can be variable, but Death Valley is great for access to a range of conditions. Too hot? Head for elevation. Too cold? Valley floor and lower canyons. Wind? Tuck up into a canyon mouth to find protection.



- Your iten sounds great. My suggestion would be to budget time, at least two days and maybe three, for the swing through the northwest part of the part. It is remote, beautiful, and empty. There is also lots to do that the kid will enjoy, like the racetrack, abandoned mines, and of course the dunes.



- IMO, the backcountry camping options blow the doors off of developed campgrounds in DV. With the exception of Wildrose, I find the campgrounds very depressing, although I have never stayed at Mahogany Flat.



- You mentioned the 'no backcountry fires' rule...yes, I know it is a rule, and I don't advocate lawlessness, but...there are plenty of established fire rings, and it really elevates the mood to have a fire going during the evening out there. Bring your own wood, of course.



Seems like you have a good read on keeping the kid entertained. In my experience, he will have a blast when outside the car, but long desert drives are very boring for kids. They just can't appreciate the subtlety of the landscape. Audio books are a great idea.

I took another look at my itinerary again last night and this morning and actually tweaked it just a tad so that each night we were stopping at at least one of the dry camp sites. This would not normally be my preferred method, but I feel it will make this trip a little easier for my dad and son. Being able to have a campfire without worry of the park rangers would be a big bonus at night. But now the issue of firewood...

I took my 7 year old to DV last year for 4 days. As other people have mentioned, you don't really need a whole lot. Tent, sleeping bag, clothes, water and food. That's about it.



Try not to plan too many sites and do too much in one trip. If you haven't been there before, one thing you'll realize is Death Valley is big. Really, really big. So for every interesting place you visit, plan on many hours of desert driving in between. While technical trails and dirt roads might be interesting for the driver, hours of washboard road and desert scenery could get very boring for passengers, especially young kids. Plan to stop every hour or two just to get out of the car, even for no reason. Remote desert locations might be a lot of fun, but keep in mind anything that's really interesting will probably be developed into a tourist site. Old Mines, ghost towns, and canyons are always fun for kids and adults, and when my kid started getting bored, just giving him a shovel and letting him dig kept him entertained and burned off a lot of energy.

That's a great idea about just letting him dig! I’ve only got one long day of travelling planned once inside the park. That is the second day and is planned for about 7 hours. All the days after that never top more than 4 hours of “destination” travel (a couple are only planned for just over 2 hours of travel).

I love the idea of a small trailer. Maybe a CL find or even put a note here and on CL to rent one. I bet you find it for far less than $1,000. Heck I'd give you my utility trailer to use for a week but I'm in MA.



I just had a thought for the boy....take away the gameboy and give him a digital camera. Always great to "see things" through kids eyes. When we did a SW trip all 3 of our kids had cameras and it was awesome to pull all the pics together. Tell him he's the official trip photographer. Obviously you can grab some too, but also if he catches pics of you and Dad talking around the campsite those will be very valuable indeed.

Giving him a digital camera is a great idea. We have an older little point and shoot that I could let him use. Thanks!

Staying hydrated guidelines....

when in DV I usually bring a gallon per person per day. I have done multidays with my wife, 3 y/o & two pooches (never in summer tho')...up to 3 days.. we usually go through less than half of what I bring.....but it is best to have more than not enough....

I run a 4" lift on 35" no skid plates of any sort.....never had an issue on many of the mine roads or Dedeckera canyon (steel pass if you decide to go that route).. just take slow and you'll be fine...



Yes those are the plastic cartons Im talking about....

I usually dont do the campsites ......thus the reason I went from a wood camp-fire to a propane camp-fire...these are considered stoves and can be used in areas with fire restrictions.....

As for kids ..... I can only tell you what works/doesn't work for my own kid.....It is wise to have technology (for the kiddo) to pass time when driving long distances...



Have fun !!

Most of the water info I could find online said a gallon/person per day. That would be 3 gallons a day (18 for the trip). I just don’t see going though that much water. I’m thinking 2 gallons a day (12 for the trip) is more realistic, so I’ll probably go with 15 gallons total.

Do you have a link to the type of stove/propane camp-fire setup you have?

For trash, I use compactor bags. Double them up for excellent protection against liquids/odors leaking out. While traveling, I hand compress them and twist the neck and secure with a #2 spring clamp. In camp, I hang them open. The spring clamp doubles as a way to hang the bag in camp.

Thanks, I’ll have to look into the compactor bags. I’ve never seen/used any of those before, so what is the advantage over a normal bag?

From our latest trip to Death Valley, then biggest things we found lacking were water storage and a good trash solution. We had five gallons of water for two people and a dog and it barely made it through three days. Pack more than you think you'll need.



Trash is another big issue we hadn't really put much thought into... We never had an issue just tossing a bag of trash into the back when it was just the two of us, but since adding the dog we now get to deal with stinky poo bags and less usable space. A trasharoo or one of sea to summit's dry sack trash bags will make life a lot nicer.



If you think there's a chance you'll stay in camp for a day or two, look into an extra battery or solar power for the fridge. The sun's heat will flatten a battery in no time as the fridge tries to keep up inside a hot rig. Even in the winter. If you're spending most of the day driving around it's not too much of a problem.

Thanks for the water info. I sounds like you were using about 1.6 gallons a day, so my estimate of 2.5 gallons a day should do us pretty good. If we seem to go through it faster then I’m thinking we will, I can restock some at either Stove Pipe or Panamint Valley. Since our tent is on top of the Jeep, we have to break camp everyday if we want to go anywhere so staying in one spot for a couple of days is not really an issue for us.

 

[Etoimos]

Some great advice here. if you haven't already, you can spend hours on the forum here and learn a ton.

Add Ubehebe Crater, Dante's View and artists drive to your itinerary.

Ubehebe is on the list and artists drive will most likely be done on our Bad Water leg of the trip. Unfortunately, I just learned yesterday that Dante’s View will be closed when we are there.

You got some great advice do far!! Sounds like it’s going to be a awesome trip. Fortunately my dad in his early 70’s goes on all our trips in his H3. Like you my 3 boys love having grandpa around! There are a couple of kids books for Death Valley like “Who pooped in the park” now my kids are looking for animal scat every time we stop. Also preload a Offroad map program on his IPad and let him navigate.

Couple of suggestions I will throw in.
Liquid eggs!!!! Easier to buy some a premix or aget a stout container and scramble the eggs and dump in the container. Works great.

The water situation. Bring a hydration backpack. You can leave them when not in use on the back of your seats and those short hikes you will never be without water.

Also MIO water flavoring!! I keep them close by and gives everyone a choice versus plain water.

I would highly suggest heading to chloride city area. Lots of great historical sites and over lols the valley. Titus canyon is fun for a first time until a Subaru passes you lol.

Thanks for the info on the kid’s book, I’ll have to look for that one and maybe one on animal tracks. Letting him navigate is another great idea and one I’ll definitely use, so thanks for that as well! Chloride City was not on my list, but I’ll look into it for an excursion if there is time. Oh, and I'm not worried if a Subbie passes me. This trip is not about the trails, I've got the Subbies beat if I want that back home...

 

[Etoimos]

One question I do have is in regards to staking the guy wires for the RTT. Is the ground in DV mostly rocky or mostly sandy? I'm just wondering if I need to upgrade or look at alternatives for my tent stakes?

 

[NatersXJ6]

I do the big meal mid-day so I don't end up cleaning up in the dark. It helps keep a cleaner site, and I can spend the awesome sunset hours on scenery not cooking.

One of the main reasons I have a RTT is no guy lines. in high wind I tie to the jeep frame.

As far as your awning? Tie to piles of rocks. Lots of rocks in DV.

Get your kid binoculars. I also give my kids high-vis vests and FRS radios and let them roam a bit. The risk is low if they know their boundaries.

Also, it sounds like you are doing DV in March, Spring Break? Be prepared for large crowds and people circling campsites like vultures waiting for you to leave.

 

[K2ZJ]

Have you considered a hitch carrier for extra space? I like them over putting stuff on the roof for aerodynamics and center of gravity. Down side is security, rear overhang and access to rear of the vehicle. Plus you don't have much room up top left with a rtt up there.

Also what would you feel is an appropriate price to pay for an "expo" ready trailer? Feel free to pm me if you wish.

 

[RyanT]

Agree with the less is more advice here, but have to ask--what season? Assuming winter, but you didn't mention, so I thought I'd ask.

Death Valley is obviously one of the more brittle climates in the country, punishing summers. Winter can be painful as well, but mostly in the dawn/dusk hours.

Sounds like an epic time to have fun, tell stories, and enjoy a really unique place with great company.

 

[MANUCHAO]

Do you have a link to the type of stove/propane camp-fire setup you have?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O51VJ0/ref=asc_df_B000O51VJ05370964/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000O51VJ0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218094726470&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9618007402718382460&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031106&hvtargid=pla-383298659491

 

[Etoimos]

I do the big meal mid-day so I don't end up cleaning up in the dark. It helps keep a cleaner site, and I can spend the awesome sunset hours on scenery not cooking.

One of the main reasons I have a RTT is no guy lines. in high wind I tie to the jeep frame.

As far as your awning? Tie to piles of rocks. Lots of rocks in DV.

Get your kid binoculars. I also give my kids high-vis vests and FRS radios and let them roam a bit. The risk is low if they know their boundaries.

Also, it sounds like you are doing DV in March, Spring Break? Be prepared for large crowds and people circling campsites like vultures waiting for you to leave.

That makes some sense on the bigger meal during the day. I was figuring on driving/exploring during the day, so had not really thought about doing it your way. Since there is no need to have the tent all setup, that might still workout while exploring during the day. Pull over at an interesting location and let my dad and son go explore while I make us some lunch. My dad has a couple of pairs of binoculars, so I'll have him bring some along for the kiddo. My little guy is quite "risk adverse", so I'd have no worries about him wondering past eye sight. Lol

With my dad sleeping in the annex room of the RTT, I'll have to set some stakes and guy lines. Otherwise I could tie the rainfly (if needed) to the roof rack as well.

We are going during Spring Break, so I'll just have to deal with the crowds. If I can get the camp fire issue sorted out, I could ditch the campsites all together if they became too much of a pain.

Have you considered a hitch carrier for extra space? I like them over putting stuff on the roof for aerodynamics and center of gravity. Down side is security, rear overhang and access to rear of the vehicle. Plus you don't have much room up top left with a rtt up there.

Also what would you feel is an appropriate price to pay for an "expo" ready trailer? Feel free to pm me if you wish.

I do have a hitch carrier, but don't really like using it do to the increase in rear overhang. The big thing, as you mentioned, is that it makes it next to impossible to get in the rear of the Jeep. And with my 37" tire mounted back there, I have to pretty much load what little I can fit in the hitch carrier just to open up the back. But you are right that the RTT does not leave much room up top and the CG is already pretty high. I'll PM you about the trailer, thanks.

 

[Etoimos]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O51VJ0/ref=asc_df_B000O51VJ05370964/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000O51VJ0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218094726470&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9618007402718382460&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031106&hvtargid=pla-383298659491

Thanks, that is interesting and not to bad price wise. How big of a propane tank do you normally bring and how long does that last you (I know that last part is akin to asking how long a piece of string is).

 

[MANUCHAO]

It's hard to answer that.. it all depends on how high you set the flame and for how long you have it burning....
I have used a 10 lbs propane tank for about 3 nights.. and a 20 lbs tank for longer burning times......
But the really great part of it is that I dont have to get firewood and the campfire is an instant thing....plus is burns without any smoke....

 

[Etoimos]

So would you say 10lbs per 3 nights of "low to normal" use? I don't think I can swing the space in the Jeep for that much propane I'm assuming that none of the gas stations inside the park sell propane? I'm going to have to fill the Jeep up on the second day in Panamint Springs anyways.

 

[chet6.7]

I do have a hitch carrier, but don't really like using it do to the increase in rear overhang. The big thing, as you mentioned, is that it makes it next to impossible to get in the rear of the Jeep. And with my 37" tire mounted back there, I have to pretty much load what little I can fit in the hitch carrier just to open up the back. But you are right that the RTT does not leave much room up top and the CG is already pretty high.

I probably look like a modern day Beverly Hillbilly
I run a hitch carriers as well, front and rear,I use a hitch extension on the back so I can open the doors of my ARE DCU.My hitch is rated for more than the weight I carry,including the weight reduction the extension requires. I think I have a different one, but this is close,they are available in several lengths,a welder could shorten it if necessary.I also added rear tail lights and reflective tape.I don't offroad with the carriers,but FS dirt roads are not a problem.
https://www.amazon.com/Reese-Towpow...d=1518635559&sr=1-22&keywords=hitch+extension

 

[krick3tt]

I don't 'run' the fire all night but I have an 11 and 10 pound tanks. I take both usually, one for the cooking and one for the canned fire. I have been using the fire tank (ten) for about 10 trips and the (11) for about the same, still feels heavy.

I also have the green 1 pound tanks for my single burner to make coffee in the AM. One of those lasts about a week. The left over hot water I use for washing things up.

I must be doing something different than all the other campers I read about that seem to only get three days out of a 10 pound tank, maybe cause I leave it on a low setting and dress warmer. I do use the fire can to cook eggs and bacon on in the morning sometimes. Might as well use the fire when it is 'on', huddling over it while I cook. They make a grille to go on the fire that is great for putting a pan on. The canned fire doesn't leave smoke scent on my clothes when I turn in for the night.

I started bringing a canned fire because of all the burn bans in CO. Never without a fire and not carrying wood now leaves me tons of room on the roof rack and really saves dollars not buying wood although I can usually find wood on the way to where I am going. Construction sites are my favorite for that.

Happy trails