Andrew Walcker
Mod Emeritus
Michael Slade said:
Help Slade on his road to recovery and buy his
90 to 110
- Thread starter stevenmd
- Start date
Help Slade on his road to recovery and buy his
Z O O R O P A
Explorer
I'm in the same boat
Great news is more 110s are going to be coming in. Looks like for a really nice one you are going to pay around $20K
I don't think NAS 110s will ever drop below $35Kish
then you have to put a new engine in if it doesn't have one because 12 mpg in that 3.9 is just silly
on the other hand .....
I think the 2004 Discovery is a fantastic reliable vehicle and plush. Parts are readily available. So depending on what you plan to do I would consider it especially when you can have one with 40-50K miles for $10Kish
There is a guy driving around here with a www.drivearoundtheworld.com Disco and I have to tell you it is SWEET!
pics http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14094&page=2
just a worthy consideration
when buying a 25 + year old vehicle I plan the following in my price whether I pay for it or it's already done:
engine refurbish or replacement (even the nice ones will need new belts etc)
new interior (anything from range rover seats to the new Defender seats)
new bulk head (potentially)
changing from RHD to LHD (about 5K$ US)
basics like suspension/swivel balls/etc
door handles/doors/windows
rear bumper
that is just to make it fun to drive home to say nothing about enlarging the radiator, cooling system AC, etc
Roof Rack (Hannibal is the only one that makes sense)
Tires/rims/gear box/tranny/winch/lights/etc
so far I have only seen maybe 2 Defender 110s that are not 1993s NAS that I'd spend my money on - one was illegal and they sold for 18K US
I wouldn't even consider anything that had a petrol engine unless it was in perfect shape, had all the accessories, or cost around 10K$ American because a new engine is going to run you 6-10 thousand anyway
I have tried to get some quotes because there are plenty of D90s with 300tdis for sale right now, but I think the cost of yanking the body + chasis and replacing it with a galvanized one and a 110 body (which no one apparently sells) would be just ridiculous
if you look around the net you can buy:
chassis and suspension $5000+ shipping
used tdi or td5 engine + tranny = $5000 + shipping
1983 110 used in poor/decent condition but drivable = $12-15K
then put it together and you are really looking at $30K which is reasonable but just a guess. You can't find a D90 with a tdi for less than the same price ready to go. You could buy a beater 1994 D90 with say 150,000+ miles on it and start there for about $20K then add the above and you will have a nice truck around 35-40K$ I think
if you want an automatic you will certainly have to order the parts specially from the UK. A 1984 with an Automatic was just sold to Berkley CA for a decent price and in great shape but it had a petrol engine i think and needed work but the body shined
Or you can buy a 2004 Discovery in your color that your wife can drive, has AC, still feels like a utility vehicle just with leather seats and a kickn sound system and buy an Adventure trailer for just a hair over $20K US
or you can buy a 15-25 year old Defender over the next year or two as a project most likely.
I'd go with the Discovery NOW and wait a year or two and find a really nice Defender. Having searched the UK endlessly for months for 1983-1986 110s nice examples do come up for sale from time to time. A really nice one just sold on ebay.co.uk for about $4K thousand US. It will need about $15K or more worth of stuff to make it practical and reliable + shipping tot he US which is getting more and more pricey
if our dollar devaluation doesn't stop the Discovery may seem like a great option because the exchange rates blow hard! :smileeek:
a fully tricked out 2004 Discovery with a Horizontal Adventure trailer, roof rack, roof tents, ready to tackle Hole In The Rock or Alaska's Creek trails would run you less than $25K I bet or about $425.00 a month in car payments :sombrero:
that is one car payment I wouldn't mind paying every month :wings:
by the way you CAN finance a 1983 easily, you just need it appraised
Great news is more 110s are going to be coming in. Looks like for a really nice one you are going to pay around $20K
I don't think NAS 110s will ever drop below $35Kish
then you have to put a new engine in if it doesn't have one because 12 mpg in that 3.9 is just silly
on the other hand .....
I think the 2004 Discovery is a fantastic reliable vehicle and plush. Parts are readily available. So depending on what you plan to do I would consider it especially when you can have one with 40-50K miles for $10Kish
There is a guy driving around here with a www.drivearoundtheworld.com Disco and I have to tell you it is SWEET!
pics http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14094&page=2
just a worthy consideration
when buying a 25 + year old vehicle I plan the following in my price whether I pay for it or it's already done:
engine refurbish or replacement (even the nice ones will need new belts etc)
new interior (anything from range rover seats to the new Defender seats)
new bulk head (potentially)
changing from RHD to LHD (about 5K$ US)
basics like suspension/swivel balls/etc
door handles/doors/windows
rear bumper
that is just to make it fun to drive home to say nothing about enlarging the radiator, cooling system AC, etc
Roof Rack (Hannibal is the only one that makes sense)
Tires/rims/gear box/tranny/winch/lights/etc
so far I have only seen maybe 2 Defender 110s that are not 1993s NAS that I'd spend my money on - one was illegal and they sold for 18K US
I wouldn't even consider anything that had a petrol engine unless it was in perfect shape, had all the accessories, or cost around 10K$ American because a new engine is going to run you 6-10 thousand anyway
I have tried to get some quotes because there are plenty of D90s with 300tdis for sale right now, but I think the cost of yanking the body + chasis and replacing it with a galvanized one and a 110 body (which no one apparently sells) would be just ridiculous
if you look around the net you can buy:
chassis and suspension $5000+ shipping
used tdi or td5 engine + tranny = $5000 + shipping
1983 110 used in poor/decent condition but drivable = $12-15K
then put it together and you are really looking at $30K which is reasonable but just a guess. You can't find a D90 with a tdi for less than the same price ready to go. You could buy a beater 1994 D90 with say 150,000+ miles on it and start there for about $20K then add the above and you will have a nice truck around 35-40K$ I think
if you want an automatic you will certainly have to order the parts specially from the UK. A 1984 with an Automatic was just sold to Berkley CA for a decent price and in great shape but it had a petrol engine i think and needed work but the body shined
Or you can buy a 2004 Discovery in your color that your wife can drive, has AC, still feels like a utility vehicle just with leather seats and a kickn sound system and buy an Adventure trailer for just a hair over $20K US
or you can buy a 15-25 year old Defender over the next year or two as a project most likely.
I'd go with the Discovery NOW and wait a year or two and find a really nice Defender. Having searched the UK endlessly for months for 1983-1986 110s nice examples do come up for sale from time to time. A really nice one just sold on ebay.co.uk for about $4K thousand US. It will need about $15K or more worth of stuff to make it practical and reliable + shipping tot he US which is getting more and more pricey
if our dollar devaluation doesn't stop the Discovery may seem like a great option because the exchange rates blow hard! :smileeek:
a fully tricked out 2004 Discovery with a Horizontal Adventure trailer, roof rack, roof tents, ready to tackle Hole In The Rock or Alaska's Creek trails would run you less than $25K I bet or about $425.00 a month in car payments :sombrero:
that is one car payment I wouldn't mind paying every month :wings:
by the way you CAN finance a 1983 easily, you just need it appraised
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Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
If you're into a bolt-by-bolt rebuild, a 109 might not be that bad of an option. It would give you the option of picking every component, and working through someone like ECR might make an incredible rig for less than the cost of a 110. New, galvy coil chassis, rebuilt components, clean bodywork... Just a thought.
ECR is also starting to import '83 110s, so that might be an option.
ECR is also starting to import '83 110s, so that might be an option.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
I would also second the Disco I recommendation. If you went the Camel Trophy route, you could have plenty of character and a vehicle that the wife would like driving. That would leave a hefty budget for reconditioning every major component and an engine swap (better economy), plus all of the cool bolt-ons available now.
Z O O R O P A
Explorer
Hey Mike, how was your weekend?
this could be both a good thing and bad thing in my opinion but I'm a knowitall that tends to be wrong more often than right according to my lovely gf who I plan to marry lol
I for one shutter at the thought of ECR importing 110s - they seem to have a business relationship with Copley Motor Cars in Boston.
Copley is the most expensive used car dealer I've ever seen. I wonder what an oil change at Copley would cost lol
ECR does nice work ....... but nothing more than any body shop could do for half the price. That is what ECR is - a body shop for Defenders with PREMIUM prices and looooong delivery times
so I expect any Defenders ECR is importing will go to Copley when finished and cost $50K + or something which is absurd since NEW Defenders don't cost that much to begin with but you'll get a "new" used 25 year old car that is dependable shines and easy on the eyes
Refurbishing a Defender is not complicated or some kind of enigma. It is just a car with nuts and bolts and as far as cars go a Defender is certainly a simplistic one
so buying a used Defender and taking it to a body shop and NEGOTIATING the deal to get the truck the way you want it is the way to go I think.
When you bring a vehicle project like this to a garage or body shop, you can negotiate a bit as ANYONE can do the job as long as the tools are available and the mechanic has some skill
If you have the time I'd find a mechanic you can trust have him do it with you on the side as this would be educational, fun, informative about your rig and you are there making sure it's done right.
Having owned Rovers since 1997 I know plenty of mechanics lol hahahaha :costumed-smiley-007
On a side note Mike, could you hijack this thread real quick with some pics of Alaska I for one just can't get enough and I'll take anything you can throw at me to feed my obsession :Astrologist:
this could be both a good thing and bad thing in my opinion but I'm a knowitall that tends to be wrong more often than right according to my lovely gf who I plan to marry lol
I for one shutter at the thought of ECR importing 110s - they seem to have a business relationship with Copley Motor Cars in Boston.
Copley is the most expensive used car dealer I've ever seen. I wonder what an oil change at Copley would cost lol
ECR does nice work ....... but nothing more than any body shop could do for half the price. That is what ECR is - a body shop for Defenders with PREMIUM prices and looooong delivery times
so I expect any Defenders ECR is importing will go to Copley when finished and cost $50K + or something which is absurd since NEW Defenders don't cost that much to begin with but you'll get a "new" used 25 year old car that is dependable shines and easy on the eyes
Refurbishing a Defender is not complicated or some kind of enigma. It is just a car with nuts and bolts and as far as cars go a Defender is certainly a simplistic one
so buying a used Defender and taking it to a body shop and NEGOTIATING the deal to get the truck the way you want it is the way to go I think.
When you bring a vehicle project like this to a garage or body shop, you can negotiate a bit as ANYONE can do the job as long as the tools are available and the mechanic has some skill
If you have the time I'd find a mechanic you can trust have him do it with you on the side as this would be educational, fun, informative about your rig and you are there making sure it's done right.
Having owned Rovers since 1997 I know plenty of mechanics lol hahahaha :costumed-smiley-007
On a side note Mike, could you hijack this thread real quick with some pics of Alaska
I for one just can't get enough and I'll take anything you can throw at me to feed my obsession :Astrologist:
Mercedesrover
Explorer
I would think that buying a 25-year old 110 out of the UK would be the same as buying a 50-year old truck out of the UK….There’s just not going to be that much left to work with and you’re going to end up replacing 90% of the truck anyway. Why bother with the trouble of importing one?
If I were building the truck you describe, I’d probably buy a crummy old 109 and build it up on a new coiler chassis. Get yourself a $200 RRC for the suspension, axles, etc. As you’re building the truck from scratch anyway, you can build it as you see fit. Use whatever engine, tranny, etc. that you like.
There is very little on these trucks that can’t be done by a competent do it yourselfer. You might want to ship out the body panels for paint but besides that, the only way to afford what you want is to do it yourself. I’ll have at least 800 hours in my 109 by the time I’m done (probably closer to 1000). Multiply that by $70.00 an hour and you’ll see that ECR isn’t really out of line with what they are building.
Most bodyshops (including the one I work at) wouldn’t touch something like a custom one-off Land Rover build. That’s why there is ECR in the first place. They know the trucks and they know what they’re doing. Paying someone to put this truck together isn’t going to be an option.
Slade’s list is spot-on. Building this truck yourself will cost you $30k+ in parts alone. Probably more. Unless you want something ubber-custom and very specific your best bet would be one of two things. Go out and buy the nicest restored 109 you can find or go out and buy a nice Land Cruiser. Other than that, prepare to drain your bank account and get very dirty. My marriage hasn’t dissolved, but only because I have a wonderful and understanding wife and I was very up-front with her about the commitment this build was going to take. I will say she’s still pissed I didn’t paint it green.
If I were building the truck you describe, I’d probably buy a crummy old 109 and build it up on a new coiler chassis. Get yourself a $200 RRC for the suspension, axles, etc. As you’re building the truck from scratch anyway, you can build it as you see fit. Use whatever engine, tranny, etc. that you like.
There is very little on these trucks that can’t be done by a competent do it yourselfer. You might want to ship out the body panels for paint but besides that, the only way to afford what you want is to do it yourself. I’ll have at least 800 hours in my 109 by the time I’m done (probably closer to 1000). Multiply that by $70.00 an hour and you’ll see that ECR isn’t really out of line with what they are building.
Most bodyshops (including the one I work at) wouldn’t touch something like a custom one-off Land Rover build. That’s why there is ECR in the first place. They know the trucks and they know what they’re doing. Paying someone to put this truck together isn’t going to be an option.
Slade’s list is spot-on. Building this truck yourself will cost you $30k+ in parts alone. Probably more. Unless you want something ubber-custom and very specific your best bet would be one of two things. Go out and buy the nicest restored 109 you can find or go out and buy a nice Land Cruiser. Other than that, prepare to drain your bank account and get very dirty. My marriage hasn’t dissolved, but only because I have a wonderful and understanding wife and I was very up-front with her about the commitment this build was going to take. I will say she’s still pissed I didn’t paint it green.
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revor
Explorer
Alaska Mike said:
This is the angle I was prepared to take until I found my truck. It's more of a time thing. If I had the time I would have gone this way. Much like Jim at Series Trek.
I think that if you were to do a little at a time you will ultimatly have a better truck in the end. Just beware of shipfitters disease or your beautiful 109 SW will end up like mine, in a storage unit.... waiting for spare time.
Z O O R O P A
Explorer
I amicably disagree of course
you might be surprised actually how nice some are
Defenders are not complicated as you know. Charging 40-50K$ for a refurbished truck is excessive
I spoke with a really nice guy who has a superb example of a 1983 300tdi Defender rhd. He paid 18K and the thing looks beautiful!
The illegal 110 I saw sold for 18K and had a Hannibal rack, LHD, but a petrol engine - again 18K and was beautiful!!!! even nicer than the above - I'll post some pics later tonight of both vehicles
no rust, no issues, drive off the lot
you really think ECR isn't charging a ridiculous amount of money for wealthy customers?
they sell 110s for 70-80K$ lol on this point buying a D90 and changing everything out seems economic compared to ECR
nah 110s will be more affordable and more common next year by far and prices for non NAS rigs will drop as well NAS 90s. Maybe not NAS 110s
In the last 6 months I've seen more 110s under 20K$ than ever before and in 1983 they only built a few thousand units - in 1984 LR began producing 40,000+ units a year so we will see many more for sale
for a reasonable price (say $30,000) I can fly to England, pick a shop, have the engine replaced with a NEW tdi, add all the safari accessories I want and ship it to my door on a galv, chassis OR just drive it from the UK around Europe and Africa before shipping it back to the USA for 70-80k geez
sure if ECR doesn't want the hassle of sales they deal with Copley, who take their cut, and the price adds up but the prices really haven't changed much from before they dealt with Copley when the exchange rate was great (pre-Bush)
I saw a brand new tdi300 engine for sale on a UK website, still in the crate with the LR logo unopened for 2200 pounds. Add the install and tranny = $10-12K$ US new parts installed. Engine is sold by the way
you might be surprised actually how nice some are
Defenders are not complicated as you know. Charging 40-50K$ for a refurbished truck is excessive
I spoke with a really nice guy who has a superb example of a 1983 300tdi Defender rhd. He paid 18K and the thing looks beautiful!
The illegal 110 I saw sold for 18K and had a Hannibal rack, LHD, but a petrol engine - again 18K and was beautiful!!!! even nicer than the above - I'll post some pics later tonight of both vehicles
no rust, no issues, drive off the lot
you really think ECR isn't charging a ridiculous amount of money for wealthy customers?
they sell 110s for 70-80K$ lol on this point buying a D90 and changing everything out seems economic compared to ECR
nah 110s will be more affordable and more common next year by far and prices for non NAS rigs will drop as well NAS 90s. Maybe not NAS 110s
In the last 6 months I've seen more 110s under 20K$ than ever before and in 1983 they only built a few thousand units - in 1984 LR began producing 40,000+ units a year so we will see many more for sale
for a reasonable price (say $30,000) I can fly to England, pick a shop, have the engine replaced with a NEW tdi, add all the safari accessories I want and ship it to my door on a galv, chassis OR just drive it from the UK around Europe and Africa before shipping it back to the USA for 70-80k geez
sure if ECR doesn't want the hassle of sales they deal with Copley, who take their cut, and the price adds up but the prices really haven't changed much from before they dealt with Copley when the exchange rate was great (pre-Bush)
I saw a brand new tdi300 engine for sale on a UK website, still in the crate with the LR logo unopened for 2200 pounds. Add the install and tranny = $10-12K$ US new parts installed. Engine is sold by the way
Michael Slade
Untitled
Andrew Walcker said:Help Slade on his road to recovery and buy his
It's off the market now.
TeriAnn
Explorer
stevenmd said:
7 people & possibly more!!!!! You have already outgrown a D110.
Time to get in line for a new D147.
The Defender 147 High Capacity Station Wagon
" Test engineers report that the legendary ride comfort of the Defender has
been further enhanced, with the off-road prowess of the 147 exceeding even
the most optimistic expectations.
It is believed that as well as appealing to the demanding game lodge and
safari market, it will find favour with discerning family buyers who aspire
to the luxury of even more stretch-out room and loadspace for extended Land
Rover adventures.
In keeping with Land Rover tradition the 147 badge indicates the length of
the wheelbase in inches, with the 5.3m long vehicle still fitting in a
standard garage if the spare wheel is stowed against the bulkhead in the
load area, rather than on the outside of the rear door. This vehicle carries
Land Rover's three year / 100 000 km warranty with full parts back-up."
As an aside California regulations can get kind of funny about which vehicles can be registered in the state. You can legally import vehicle into the US that can not be legally registered in California.
And if you really want to bring in an early 110, look for a ex-MoD army of the Rhine spec LR or a continental (European) spec LR and not a UK spec LR. And don't be surprised if a 83 or 84 D110 with a newer engine can not be legally registered in California or if you have to figure out how to install an evaporative emissions system. Study the registration requirements in your home state BEFORE making plans about what to purchase.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Here's a couple trips Scott Brady and I made:Z O O R O P A said:On a side note Mike, could you hijack this thread real quick with some pics of Alaska
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2000/Alaska_2000/index.html
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2002/Alaska_2002/index.html
For more trip reports and pictures of South Central Alaska, you can always go to my old club's site:
http://home.gci.net/~lf4w/
Z O O R O P A
Explorer
great post and excellent advice!
I plan on installing these in an 83/84 as they are available with new Defenders and can be installed easily by a shop in the UK
I work with Autistic kids so having 7 seats is very handy!
I'd also like to comment that the 2004 S7 SE7 HSE7 can fit full sized adults comfortably (I put a adult child in them who is 5'8+)
from what I have read ex-military vehicles are not the best rigs for purchase
if I could get a tdi in a 2004 Discovery I'd never look at a Defender much
I plan on installing these in an 83/84 as they are available with new Defenders and can be installed easily by a shop in the UK
I work with Autistic kids so having 7 seats is very handy!
I'd also like to comment that the 2004 S7 SE7 HSE7 can fit full sized adults comfortably (I put a adult child in them who is 5'8+)
from what I have read ex-military vehicles are not the best rigs for purchase
if I could get a tdi in a 2004 Discovery I'd never look at a Defender much
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Back to the subject at hand, there isn't much doubt that it's going to be obscenely expensive no matter which route you take. Spending that kind of change for a utility vehicle seems kinda off to me, when essentially the looks of the vehicle are the selling point. I learned long ago to leave logic behind when faced with vehicle pricing. If the market will bear it, I guess that's the price.
In regards to ECRs products, we're not talking about a used vehicle anymore. We're talking about a vehicle completely rebuilt by hand. Very different things. I would hate to add up all of the parts I've put into my Rover pile, and then put a dollar value on the labor.
I still think a Disco I with a trailer is the way to go.
In regards to ECRs products, we're not talking about a used vehicle anymore. We're talking about a vehicle completely rebuilt by hand. Very different things. I would hate to add up all of the parts I've put into my Rover pile, and then put a dollar value on the labor.
I still think a Disco I with a trailer is the way to go.
Z O O R O P A
Explorer
thanks Mike!
great stuff!
:clapsmile
great stuff!
:clapsmile
LC/LR4Life
Adventurer
D147 - The Royal Family off road limo..... haha
:ylsmoke:
:ylsmoke: