AEV Brute: The Ultimate Overlander?

[Comanche Scott]

Have you driven or tested the Brute? Just curious what experienced formed that opinion. . .

As mentioned multiple times, "Ultimate" must exclude the consideration for price. If we were awarding the best value, then the outcome would be different. This article does not even attempt to validate the price tag, and without question, the Brute in fact does a better job than anything available in North America. The only vehicle that will outperform it in stock form is a Rubicon Wrangler, but the Wrangler lacks the utility of a bed. For North America, the advantage of a bed WITH the performance of the Rubicon platform sets the Brute apart. Just a fact.

Out perform other vehicles climbing rocks... OK, I agree with that. But since when did Overlanding become a rock climbing competition?
We've had Stock Land Rovers cross the Trans-Atlantic trail. Pretty much any all wheel drive vehicle will go through the Mojave Road.
Heck there's YouTube videos of a guy driving Moab trails in a Crown Vic.
The Turtle expedition uses a big old Ford truck. Are they not the epitome of "Overlanding"?
So really, are we talking about Overlanding, or are we talking about rock climbing?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the "essence" of overlanding was exploration. So if it takes a little more exploration to find a way around a rock outcropping, is that not in the spirit of overlanding?

I just don't see how the shortcomings of the Brute make it the best "overlanding" vehicle ever.
It just doesn't make sense to me, regardless of the price.
I would however be interested in reading an ongoing long term vehicle test report in Overland Journal. I think after a year, the euphoria would wear off, and reality would set in. But then I've been wrong before. That might even be a better marketing piece than the initial article.

 

[Scott Brady]

Well, I guess that makes you as close to an expert as we've got, since most of us haven't (and won't) even see one in person. :sombrero:
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So I'll ask, can you shed any light on the gvw concerns? Does the converted Brute retain the VIN of the JK on which it was based? And thus, the GVWR? Does it actually exceed that rating, empty, sitting at the curb?
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Because I've searched all I care to, and I can't find it addressed anywhere.
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Thanks!

In reality, there is nothing official. The Brute as delivered is under GVWR and the GVRW is not changed with the conversion. It would be considerable expense for AEV to certify the Brute for a higher GVWR. I went through the same process when I bought the XVJP, and ended up doing a ton of research on my own to feel comfortable with the payload I needed. Having discussed this directly with the Jeep engineers, they will say (off the record) that the payload of the Wrangler is limited by the rear spring rate. To achieve articulation and ride comfort requirements unloaded, the springs are soft. This results in a payload rating (and subsequent GVWR) of less than the vehicle is capable of otherwise. The NAS Trooper is a great example, having only a 950lb. payload in the US, but the exact same vehicle (with a heavier diesel motor) having a 1,450lb. payload in Australia. Only the springs were different.

Based on my research, I feel the Brute has an appropriate GVWR of about 6,800 lbs., give or take a few hundred. I would put the payload at 1,400-1,600lbs. Of course, this is just my opinion based on the research we have done on the Dana 44 axles, frame strength (the JK frame is stronger than the RAM 1500 frame), braking performance, wheelbase, etc. Comparables such as the Tacoma and Nissan Titan, the Tacoma using a smaller rear axle and the Titan using the same rear axle (Dana 44). If payload is a greater concern, then a Dana 60 could be installed in the rear, although I would still shoot for the 1,400-1,600lb. payload. I am not endorsing or advocating the higher GVWR or the additional payload, this is just my personal conclusion.

 

[Scott Brady]

I'm trying to figure out why Scott is being so defensive of the Brute and hyping it up, did he buy one and is trying to justify the purchase price? Just curious here is all.

I like the truck. I think it is the coolest and most versatile 4WD vehicle I have ever driven. Just one man's opinion- like it, hate it, disagree, it is all good.

 

[Scott Brady]

Out perform other vehicles climbing rocks... OK, I agree with that. But since when did Overlanding become a rock climbing competition?

I only said it was the Ultimate Overlander for North America. In reality, overland travel in North America is pretty benign, at least when variables are considered. As a result, the real challenge comes from the environment and the unknowns that result. In the US, we have a huge network of support, so I find the incentive to discover remote and challenging terrain, do trails in the dead of winter, turn right when the directions say turn left, explore the more difficult and challenging routes. For North America, I personal feel the Brute is the "Ultimate" choice. The reserve capability is enormous and it will allow me to explore any track that suits my fancy that day, from the Mojave Road to the Canol Road to the Rubicon. Pritchett Canyon? Sure. Load up my Husqvarna? No problem.

I agree that the essence of Overlanding is exploration. With the Brute, it is highly unlikely you would ever need to turn back because the going got tough.

I just don't see how the shortcomings of the Brute make it the best "overlanding" vehicle ever.
It just doesn't make sense to me, regardless of the price.

Again, it is extremely critical that people understand my opinion was related to the "Ultimate" 4wd available new in North America, for exploration in North America. It is mentioned multiple times in the article and in this thread. I never said "Best Ever" and I never said "Best Anywhere" or "Best for Everything". When it came to selecting the best vehicle to drive around the world (a few times), we chose 70 Series Land Cruisers.

People ask me all the time what I think the Ultimate new 4wd is. My opinion is that the Brute is the Ultimate new 4wd you can buy in the US and use for exploration in North America. Sure it is expensive, no it is not perfect. Don't like or agree with my opinion, I respect that.

 

[BIGdaddy]

I'm trying to figure out why Scott is being so defensive of the Brute and hyping it up, did he buy one and is trying to justify the purchase price? Just curious here is all.

I honestly don't see where he's being defensive. Just a discussion that he's point/counterpointing with people who are choosing to participate. It's a well known fact that Scott has the means and the connections to drive just about any vehicle in the world.

One of his favorites: The Suzuki Jimny. He raved about that little pip-squeak after the mongol rally, if I'm not mistaken. Another fav? The Discovery Series I, poverty pack edition. His thing has always been to find the pinnicle vehicle in that particular vehicle's subset regardless of cost high or low. That's my take, at least.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

I only said it was the Ultimate Overlander for North America. In reality, overland travel in North America is pretty benign, at least when variables are considered. As a result, the real challenge comes from the environment and the unknowns that result. In the US, we have a huge network of support, so I find the incentive to discover remote and challenging terrain, do trails in the dead of winter, turn right when the directions say turn left, explore the more difficult and challenging routes. For North America, I personal feel the Brute is the "Ultimate" choice. The reserve capability is enormous and it will allow me to explore any track that suits my fancy that day, from the Mojave Road to the Canol Road to the Rubicon. Pritchett Canyon? Sure. Load up my Husqvarna? No problem.

I agree that the essence of Overlanding is exploration. With the Brute, it is highly unlikely you would ever need to turn back because the going got tough.


Again, it is extremely critical that people understand my opinion was related to the "Ultimate" 4wd available new in North America, for exploration in North America. It is mentioned multiple times in the article and in this thread. I never said "Best Ever" and I never said "Best Anywhere" or "Best for Everything". When it came to selecting the best vehicle to drive around the world (a few times), we chose 70 Series Land Cruisers.

People ask me all the time what I think the Ultimate new 4wd is. My opinion is that the Brute is the Ultimate new 4wd you can buy in the US and use for exploration in North America. Sure it is expensive, no it is not perfect. Don't like or agree with my opinion, I respect that.

But it's still a very limited-production vehicle, if we put a minimum production of 1000 units per year or even just 100 units per year as a requirement then the Brute wouldn't even be considered. So in reality it's not a vehicle you can walk into ANY Jeep dealership in NA and buy it right there off the lot the same day. Not to mention most financial institutions will not allow more than 105-110% of new retail value on a loan. I know you said aside from price, but the rest doesn't make a lot of lot of logical sense either.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

In reality, there is nothing official. The Brute as delivered is under GVWR and the GVRW is not changed with the conversion. It would be considerable expense for AEV to certify the Brute for a higher GVWR...

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That's kinda what I thought. I do agree 100% that the vehicle is safely capable of more, but by the letter of the law, a 5400# Brute is over its legally rated weight.
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Applying this to the original topic at hand: I would say that any "Ultimate Vehicle" should, at the very least, be street legal.
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Robert

 

[Scott Brady]

I'm trying to figure out why Scott is being so defensive of the Brute and hyping it up, did he buy one and is trying to justify the purchase price? Just curious here is all.

I can assure you that I am not feeling defensive. In reality, there is nothing to defend. It is just an opinion. The part I do find particularly mildly entertaining is the strong opinion of people that have likely never even seen the vehicle in person, let alone driven it. I drive lots of 4WDs, it is my job to do so. This results in opinions based upon my experience, bias and personal taste. Some will resonate with my viewpoint, others will not. In the end, what really matters is getting out there and actually doing it- unfortunately, only a rare few actually push back from the keyboard and go.

I like all types of 4WDs at all levels of cost. One of my favorites is my 1995 Discover I with a 5-speed. You can buy that car for next to nothing. I drove through the 'Stans in a $6,000 Suzuki (and loved it). My daily driver is a G-Wagen, mostly because it suits my eccentricities. If I could only own one new vehicle, it would be the Brute. It really is that rad

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I had a chance to see one in person last August in Ouray. Bada** would be my description of it.

 

[Scott Brady]

But it's still a very limited-production vehicle, if we put a minimum production of 1000 units per year or even just 100 units per year as a requirement then the Brute wouldn't even be considered. So in reality it's not a vehicle you can walk into ANY Jeep dealership in NA and buy it right there off the lot the same day. Not to mention most financial institutions will not allow more than 105-110% of new retail value on a loan. I know you said aside from price, but the rest doesn't make a lot of lot of logical sense either.

I bet you can buy a Brute in more dealerships than you can a new Ferrari. You are expecting Ultimate to be ubiquitous, cheap, and easy to obtain. It can assure you, it never is. . .

I didn't put those caveats on my selection of Ultimate. If you want it to be 1000+ units, easily found and easily financed, then it would be a different truck, and hardly Ultimate We do exactly what you are describing each year with our Overland Awards.
http://expeditionportal.com/2013-overland-suv-of-the-year-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-10th-anniversary/

 

[kojackJKU]

I bet you can buy a Brute in more dealerships than you can a new Ferrari. You are expecting Ultimate to be ubiquitous, cheap, and easy to obtain. It can assure you, it never is. . .

I didn't put those caveats on my selection of Ultimate. If you want it to be 1000+ units, easily found and easily financed, then it would be a different truck, and hardly Ultimate We do exactly what you are describing each year with our Overland Awards.
http://expeditionportal.com/2013-overland-suv-of-the-year-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-10th-anniversary/

The filson edition may be Ferrari rare tho. ha ha. and even more awesome inside.

 

[Hilldweller]

The dealership in Cherokee County can't move theirs --- it's a fairly rural area. I love listening to the conversations about it.
"Looks cool; wonder how much it is...?" peeks at sticker, flees from vicinity...

Yeah, they're neat. But I'd really quite a few things if I hit the Lotto and bought one.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

...The part I do find particularly mildly entertaining is the strong opinion of people that have likely never even seen the vehicle in person, let alone driven it... In the end, what really matters is getting out there and actually doing it- unfortunately, only a rare few actually push back from the keyboard and go.

Easy there, chief. Just because I haven't seen a $100k "wheeler" (and have no need or use for one) doesn't mean I don't get mud on the tires. We get out at least one weekend a month, as much as a real-world job and a real-world life will allow.
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And I do it in a rust-bucket, 225k mile XJ, that I built with my own hands, that'll wheel circles around a Brute.

 

[Scott Brady]

Easy there, chief. Just because I haven't seen a $100k "wheeler" (and have no need or use for one) doesn't mean I don't get mud on the tires. We get out at least one weekend a month, as much as a real-world job and a real-world life will allow.
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And I do it in a rust-bucket, 225k mile XJ, that I built with my own hands, that'll wheel circles around a Brute.

The comment was not directed at an individual. I do not know you or your experience.

The fact remains that very, very few actually get out and do it. It is the nature of the modern age- virtual adventure. . .

 

[Cole]

I've loved Jeeps for 35+ years and think the Brute 4 door is very cool. But.....


I don't see what it brings to the table that puts it in the "ultimate" for over landing category.

Sure, it can have an optional V8. But let's be honest, Jeep is a bunch of cost cutting slackers in the department of engines. They know no one will buy a Grand Cherokee without a V8 option so they build one! They also know that Wrangler buyers will compromise on this so they give you a V6... One that isn't so bad these days though. So in reality the V8 "option" isn't all that special. You could get it in a Grand Cherokee, Ram truck, or nearly any other brand and model.

Lockers and big axles? Also available in othe V8 equipped vehicles.

Luxury.....nope!

Pickup bed the size of any Tacoma or similar! And not even as well built.

Nearly any rig can be outfitted with bigger tires!

I just don't see what special trait the Brute has to make it an "ultimate" at anything other than just being cool!

Ultimately I think a Power Wagon, Tacoma or JKUR , or any number of cool 4x4 vans, gets you more bang for the buck. Which leaves that "ultimate" budget to make it go further and do more!

Ultimately I think the Brute looks like it should be a factory produced Jeep product and priced like any other compact/mid sized pickup.