Am i reading this correctly? 2016 taco still has rear drum brakes...

[tacollie]

Do you think the hilux would have the same reputation if it wasn't for the fully boxed frame or diesel? Its reputation is a direct link to its engineering which the new colorado shares on a very basic level. As you mentioned, only time will tell the reliability of the colorado chassis however the boxed frame formula for its strength is on the same track as the land cruisers, defenders, patrols and g wagons that once led or still lead the pack in chassis strength and reliability today. To some extent, reputation should not be extended to different designs. The new colorado has nothing in common with its U.S. predecessor but rather more so the international colorado which some say, has given the hilux a run for its money. Also i must add, the 2.8 "Duramax" diesel has been proved internationally for many years. I'm not trying to sell people a colorado, i just want them to understand that for heavy duty overland use the tacoma falls short in it's design, but if it works for you to each his own, I'm just not a fan of compromises.

Mid sized trucks are all about compromises. No diesel in an access can so it is already not even a contender for me. There are plenty of people using Tacomas for "heavy duty overland use." It's not the best best but it is more than adequate. Colorado could be a great platform for a lot of people to.

Boxed frames and diesels are cool but not guarantees of longevity. I think our Frontier was a better truck than any of our Tacomas. Tacomas are pretty good and way more fun to drive so we replaced the Frontier with a Tacoma.


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[Dalko43]

I don't really care about your criticism of Toyota. I sure Toyota don't give a $hit either since people don't really put their money where mouth is. I'm just correcting errors with facts.

No where did I say that Toyota is superior. No where did I say that drum brakes are superior. Heck, I even said that drums are not superior just because it has certain advantages over discs and vice versa. You guys seem to have imagine that in your head along the way. Each type have their pros and cons and each type has their application. But that concept seems to be hard for some to understand.

Sorry if your world came crashing down at the fact that the Tacoma is not the only Toyota truck/suv to use drum rear brakes. That's just facts.

Don't kid yourself. There were a lot of statements you were throwing out that were entirely subjective and had nothing to do with facts.

What is absolutely hilarious about this whole tangent, is that if Toyota somehow brought in and sold an EPA-compliant diesel Hilux in the US, Toyota customers, especially the offroading/overlanding types, would be all about it.

Yet when we replace "Toyota" with "Chevy" in that hypothetical situation, people will make all kinds of arguments and justifications on how the Tacoma is the better performer and how it provides more than adequate capabilities for overlanding/offroading use.

I have no idea how the diesel Colorado will compare to the Tacoma, and neither does anyone else on this forum...I'm just saying that from a marketing standpoint, Chevy is doing what some Toyota diehards have been yearning for for quite a while now.

 

[Clutch]

Do you think the hilux would have the same reputation if it wasn't for the fully boxed frame or diesel? Its reputation is a direct link to its engineering which the new colorado shares on a very basic level. As you mentioned, only time will tell the reliability of the colorado chassis however the boxed frame formula for its strength is on the same track as the land cruisers, defenders, patrols and g wagons that once led or still lead the pack in chassis strength and reliability today. To some extent, reputation should not be extended to different designs. The new colorado has nothing in common with its U.S. predecessor but rather more so the international colorado which some say, has given the hilux a run for its money. Also i must add, the 2.8 "Duramax" diesel has been proved internationally for many years. I'm not trying to sell people a colorado, i just want them to understand that for heavy duty overland use the tacoma falls short in it's design, but if it works for you to each his own, I'm just not a fan of compromises.

As I said earlier in the thread, only time will tell with the Colorado. Which is one of the things I am running out of...not getting any younger, I need to see these things with 200,000+ miles on them....boxed frame, diesel, disc brakes means nothing, if you have to replace injectors, fuel pumps, turbos, DEF systems...early in its' life. Might be one of those vehicles like a Land Rover...you don't want to own it out of warranty. I keep my vehicles 10-15 years, just not willing to spend my money on something that isn't proven, built by a company that has a so-so record for reliability. I dunno, my buddy's Silverado he keeps on breaking parts offroading with it. The Colorado is not the exact truck available overseas, it is built 40% lighter...curious on well it holds up.

If I am going to spend $40K on a truck it is going to be a 3/4 ton, I can get a RCLB for darn near $10K cheaper...and toss a FWC back there and not even know it is there.

Price of these petite trucks that you really can't haul anything with, has gotten a little out of hand. If they put the diesel in the base model work truck, and get the price point closer to $30K...might be interested. But for $40K I am looking at what else I can get for that amount. You can get a lot more truck for that amount is what you can...
It isn't even marketed at the overland crowd...the diesel is only available in the upper trim models...most of those customers, the truck will never see dirt. Not willing to spend the extra money on things I don't want in a truck that can't haul much, I love my Tacoma for a general use vehicle, but for actually traveling in it, get a bit annoyed, the physical size is limiting on how much gear you can haul. It is fine if I am by myself, however if you toss in a dog, the wife...two dirt bikes and all the gear...out of room very quick. If I was buying a vehicle for a strict travel only vehicle, it wouldn't be mid-size. For a do-it-all general purpose vehicle the mid-sizes are fine, you simply just deal with it short comings during the couple weeks a year we do spend traveling about...and not having to deal with a fullsize on a daily basis, I am 43, I should be able to retire in 10 years...not quite ready for full time travel only vehicle...so yes it is all about compromises.

 

[Dalko43]

If I am going to spend $40K on a truck it is going to be a 3/4 ton, I can get a RCLB for darn near $10K cheaper...and toss a FWC back there and not even know it is there.

Price of these petite trucks that you really can't haul anything with, has gotten a little out of hand. If they put the diesel in the base model work truck, and get the price point closer to $30K...might be interested. But for $40K I am looking at what else I can get for that amount. You can get a lot more truck for that amount is what you can...

That's a good deal on the Ford, though is it really worth comparing the two? The Ford's weight and size puts it in a whole different category when it comes to overlanding/offroading.

And the reality is Tacoma's are getting little pricey as well:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2016&zip=98402&listingType=new&listingTypes=new&showcaseListingId=411140593&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BTACOMA%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&vehicleStyleCodes=AWD4WD&modelCode1=TACOMA&sortBy=mileageDESC&makeCode1=TOYOTA&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=72787&searchRadius=0&listingId=411371693&Log=0

granted you can find some other trims at a lower price point.

 

[Clutch]

That's a good deal on the Ford, though is it really worth comparing the two? The Ford's weight and size puts it in a whole different category when it comes to overlanding/offroading.

And the reality is Tacoma's are getting little pricey as well:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2016&zip=98402&listingType=new&listingTypes=new&showcaseListingId=411140593&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BTACOMA%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&vehicleStyleCodes=AWD4WD&modelCode1=TACOMA&sortBy=mileageDESC&makeCode1=TOYOTA&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=72787&searchRadius=0&listingId=411371693&Log=0

granted you can find some other trims at a lower price point.

I like looking at what you can get for the same amount of money. So what does $40K get me...ok...here is the list....ok, wow...I can get a 3/4 ton in the low $30's...ok what can I get for $30K? Ok...here is another list....hmmm...wonder if I drop the budget another $5K? hmmm...that gets me a 4 banger 4WD Tacoma, that won't be the fastest thing, nor able to haul much with...but I probably can run it up to 300,000 miles without much fuss, be cheap to maintain compared to 3/4 ton, and in all reality...it will get me where I want to go and do most of the things I need it to do.

That is how I think, and that is why I "should" be able to retire in my early 50's...buy not running out and buying the latest and the greatest at every turn. :ylsmoke:


Yeah, Tacomas have gotten out of hand price-wise,.but you can still spec the Tacos without much fluff to make it reasonable. Crazy what people demand to have in their vehicles anymore, good galore, they're just vehicles, you will loose money on it, horrible horrible investments.. The base model sure does come with a lot....AC, 4WD, power widows/brakes/steering, etc. Base isn't so base anymore...not like the old days. I remember the days of power nothing...

 

[2025 deleted member]

My first truck was a 91' S10. It didn't have AC or power steering!

 

[Dalko43]

I like looking at what you can get for the same amount of money. So what does $40K get me...ok...here is the list....ok, wow...I can get a 3/4 ton in the low $30's...ok what can I get for $30K? Ok...here is another list....hmmm...wonder if I drop the budget another $5K? hmmm...that gets me a 4 banger 4WD Tacoma, that won't be the fastest thing, nor able to haul much with...but I probably can run it up to 300,000 miles without much fuss, be cheap to maintain compared to 3/4 ton, and in all reality...it will get me where I want to go and do most of the things I need it to do.

That is how I think, and that is why I "should" be able to retire in my early 50's...buy not running out and buying the latest and the greatest at every turn. :ylsmoke:

I'm not criticizing your own personal car-buying decisions, nor am I saying you shouldn't cross-shop a Tacoma or Colorado with a Ford F250.

I'm saying that the average mid-sized pickup buyer probably isn't considering a Ford F250 as an alternative. That type of vehicle is probably an overkill for the average buyer and moreover its size, weight, and wheel span are not ideal for certain offroading situations...though I have seen some pretty awesome heavy duty expedition builds on the 'domestic' section of this forum.

 

[Clutch]

I'm not criticizing your own personal car-buying decisions, nor am I saying you shouldn't cross-shop a Tacoma or Colorado with a Ford F250.

I'm saying that the average mid-sized pickup buyer probably isn't considering a Ford F250 as an alternative. That type of vehicle is probably an overkill for the average buyer and moreover its size, weight, and wheel span are not ideal for certain offroading situations...though I have seen some pretty awesome heavy duty expedition builds on the 'domestic' section of this forum.

Didn't think you were.

I am reading a lot of best vehicle for "overlanding" in this thread....think the F250 is the better buy compared to the midsizes for overlanding duties. I see a hell of a lot of waaaay over payload midsizes on here. Even with one of the Expo stars, Mr Hanson...is overloadeded, why he is complaining about the limitations of his Tacoma, isn't even justified...if you can't stay within the vehicles capacities, a FWC and a full tank of water, is right at payload, and you haven't even jumped in the drivers seat yet, nor loaded it up with provisions. Even with my fuzzy math I can't make the payload numbers work for a FWC...or one with bumpers, winch, sliders, and a RTT.

As of now, I don't care about boxed frames, disc brakes, diesels...what have you. I want a do-it-all vehicle that is going to give me the least amount of trouble in the long run, which truck will get me to retirement? Is how I am thinking, they will all give you trouble eventually... from personal experience with the brand...Toyota is the winner. For my now trips and adventures...Just need to take less, when I do go to make the little truck work for me. Have riding bud that went from a V8 F150 to a 4 slug Tacoma...says yeah it is a little underpowered, but it is a Toyota...there is a vast difference in build quality between the two, he is ok with going slow...

 

[Clutch]

My first truck was a 91' S10. It didn't have AC or power steering!

I learned in a '76 F250...had power steering, and that was it. Find it funny what people "need" in a vehicle these days...power this and that, nav, self parking....heated seats, heated steering wheel...mirrors...what is next va-jay-jay warmers?

 

[Dalko43]

Didn't think you were.

I am reading a lot of best vehicle for "overlanding" in this thread....think the F250 is the better buy compared to the midsizes for overlanding duties. I see a hell of a lot of waaaay over payload midsizes on here. Even with one of the Expo stars, Mr Hanson...is overloadeded, why he is complaining about the limitations of his Tacoma, isn't even justified...if you can't stay within the vehicles capacities, a FWC and a full tank of water, is right at payload, and you haven't even jumped in the drivers seat yet, nor loaded it up with provisions. Even with my fuzzy math I can't make the payload numbers work for a FWC...or one with bumpers, winch, sliders, and a RTT.

As of now, I don't care about boxed frames, disc brakes, diesels...what have you. I want a do-it-all vehicle that is going to give me the least amount of trouble in the long run, which truck will get me to retirement? Is how I am thinking, they will all give you trouble eventually... from personal experience with the brand...Toyota is the winner. For my now trips and adventures...Just need to take less, when I do go to make the little truck work for me. Have riding bud that went from a V8 F150 to a 4 slug Tacoma...says yeah it is a little underpowered, but it is a Toyota...there is a vast difference in build quality between the two, he is ok with going slow...

I agree weight should be a consideration when modifying a vehicle for offroading or overland use. Keep in mind that the Tacoma's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is determined by a few different factors including: brakes, suspension, frame construction, engine, tires, ect. So when you point out how some Tacoma owners overload their rigs, you're essentially acknowledging that those owners' expectations are at conflict with the design parameters Toyota used for the Tacoma.

As for Mr. Hanson, or anyone, needing justification to complain about the Tacoma, I don't think there is any point in bringing that up. The Tacoma may perform more than adequately the way it is in your opinion, but someone else may have a different set of performance criteria and expectations....the issue of which critiques are "justified" is totally subjective.

As for Toyota being the better brand due to its history...I think most of us can agree that Toyota has a reliable reputation, though certainly not without its own faults. But I rarely buy vehicles, or any product, based purely on its brand pedigree. I'll make a buy based on that specific product's track record.
The 2nd gen Tacoma had a pretty good track record and, right or wrong, many people are assuming that track record is indicative of how the 3rd gen Tacoma will perform.
The 2nd gen Colorado has only been out since 2012, and its diesel variant hasn't even hit American dealers yet.
You can speculate all you want on which vehicle will be more reliable in the long-term, but that's all it will be....speculation.

 

[Clutch]

I agree weight should be a consideration when modifying a vehicle for offroading or overland use. Keep in mind that the Tacoma's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is determined by a few different factors including: brakes, suspension, frame construction, engine, tires, ect. So when you point out how some Tacoma owners overload their rigs, you're essentially acknowledging that those owners' expectations are at conflict with the design parameters Toyota used for the Tacoma.

As for Mr. Hanson, or anyone, needing justification to complain about the Tacoma, I don't think there is any point in bringing that up. The Tacoma may perform more than adequately the way it is in your opinion, but someone else may have a different set of performance criteria and expectations....the issue of which critiques are "justified" is totally subjective.

As for Toyota being the better brand due to its history...I think most of us can agree that Toyota has a reliable reputation, though certainly not without its own faults. But I rarely buy vehicles, or any product, based purely on its brand pedigree. I'll make a buy based on that specific product's track record.
The 2nd gen Tacoma had a pretty good track record and, right or wrong, many people are assuming that track record is indicative of how the 3rd gen Tacoma will perform.
The 2nd gen Colorado has only been out since 2012, and its diesel variant hasn't even hit American dealers yet.
You can speculate all you want on which vehicle will be more reliable in the long-term, but that's all it will be....speculation.

I do believe you just like to argue.

Sure I can bring up people complaining about the Taco not being up to snuff to their expectations. Stay within the design...and more importantly, legal parameters. You'll be fine...stray from that you have no right to complain. Should of chosen another platform, imo. Think Hanson would of been better served with a F150 optioned with the heavy payload.

I stay within the design parameters...Toyotas have treated me very well, I have owned Toyotas for the past 25 years, and only had 3 of them for my personal daily vehicle...only sold the last two because I wanted a different body style. ..so I can speculate that another will go the distance.

Trust must be earned, not given. Something GM doesn't have...yet.

I really don't want that F250 either, wished Toyota made a 3/4 ton. Could probably squeak by with e RCLB Tundra...be flirting with payload capacities with a FWC, though. If I break it, it is only my fault for choosing a platform that wasn't up to the task at hand.

 

[Dalko43]

I do believe you just like to argue.

Sure I can bring up people complaining about the Taco not being up to snuff to their expectations. Stay within the design...and legal parameters. You'll be fine...stray from that you have no right to complain. Should of chosen another platform, imo.

You and I are expressing different view points on the same matter...that's not uncommon on an online forum of all places.

As for people "complaining" about the Tacoma; people have every "right" to do so. It's customer complaints and feedback that often influences auto makers as they update their products; Toyota engineers, among others, have even said as much.

Hanson (a prolific Toyota owner by his own admission), and others, have brought up issues with the Tacoma they think Toyota should improve or rework. You, and others, have expressed that the Tacoma is fine the way it is. Neither side is wrong...I think you just need to accept the fact that different people have different views on what the Tacoma should be.

 

[Clutch]

You and I are expressing different view points on the same matter...that's not uncommon on an online forum of all places.

As for people "complaining" about the Tacoma; people have every "right" to do so. It's customer complaints and feedback that often influences auto makers as they update their products; Toyota engineers, among others, have even said as much.

Hanson (a prolific Toyota owner by his own admission), and others, have brought up issues with the Tacoma they think Toyota should improve or rework. You, and others, have expressed that the Tacoma is fine the way it is. Neither side is wrong...I think you just need to accept the fact that different people have different views on what the Tacoma should be.

I do agree that the Tacoma has evolved into a different vehicle than where it has come from. That HiLux DNA is barely there anymore. (though, they share a bunch of parts now, the frame is really the only glaring difference other than the diesel engines) It is what the American market demanded, as a manufacture you meet those demands...if it doesn't do what you need it to do, you need to choose another platform. Quite simple really. Overlanders...and well, people who simply go offroading are very small percentage of Tacoma buyers...think that can be said of most truck buyers. Why our trucks are more car like than ever before, market demand.

Shoot, why I started buying Toyotas...I used to operate heavy equipment for a living. Wanted something mild mannered for my daily/exploring vehicle.

 

[Utah KJ]

I really considered the new Colorado with the Duramax engine. I probably will not buy one over a Toyota though. One thing a GM truck cannot bring to the table is resale value. Toyota is the heavyweight champ when it comes to resale and that is bolstered by the love banks have for the brand.

 

[Dalko43]

I do agree that the Tacoma has evolved into a different vehicle than where it has come from. That HiLux DNA is barely there anymore. (though, they share a bunch of parts now, the frame is really the only glaring difference other than the diesel engines) It is what the American market demanded, as a manufacture you meet those demands...if it doesn't do what you need it to do, you need to choose another platform. Quite simple really. Overlanders...and well, people who simply go offroading are very small percentage of Tacoma buyers...think that can be said of most truck buyers. Why our trucks are more car like than ever before, market demand.

Shoot, why I started buying Toyotas...I used to operate heavy equipment for a living. Wanted something mild mannered for my daily/exploring vehicle.

Funny how that works...it was almost the complete opposite for me. I grew up driving old volvo station wagons and lexus sedans. When I got in my 5th gen 4runner for the first time, it felt like a safari truck to me...high seating position, giant hood line, big controls/knobs, somewhat numb steering, spartan interior. I'm sure anyone who has actually been on a safari will laugh at that statement, but for me a Toyota SUV just felt more 'truck-like' than anything I had driven up to that point.

I do hear what you are saying on Toyota having to adapt to the American market, and I agree somewhat. But I also see how Toyota still offers bulky, BOF SUV's with manual 4wd levers, locking rear diff's, ect...I think to some degree Toyota knows some of its more utilitarian products (Tacoma, 4runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser for those few who can afford it) are attracting a customer base that's different from the regular crossover crowd. Meanwhile, the "SUV's" being produced by most other manufacturers are unibody designs that are much more focused on onroad performance than offroad performance.