anyone ever imported a diesel HiLux to the US?

[nomad_games]

Hey guys, I just got back from Iceland for the 3rd time, and once again I fell in love with the diesel HiLux that is everywhere over there. Has anyone here had success in importing one? What was the cost and was it worth it in the end?

Thanks

 

[Fireman78]

Hey guys, I just got back from Iceland for the 3rd time, and once again I fell in love with the diesel HiLux that is everywhere over there. Has anyone here had success in importing one? What was the cost and was it worth it in the end?

Thanks

I felt the EXACT same thing last time I left Iceland. Sucks doesn’t it?! We will never ever have such amazing vehicles in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nomad_games]

I felt the EXACT same thing last time I left Iceland. Sucks doesn’t it?! We will never ever have such amazing vehicles in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah. Stupid chicken tax.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah. Stupid chicken tax.

We got Hilux prior to 1995 even with the chicken tax. People generally felt they were underpowered and rode too truck-like so Toyota gave the American market the Tacoma. This battle has been waged and lost a long time ago.

You can import vehicles that are 25+ year old. Anything newer won't have come in above board. You're better off finding something you can build with a diesel swap.

 

[laxtoy]

I’ve been searching Craigslist and there are a surprising number of diesel Landcruisers, some with really low miles, ranging from $10k-$20k, which seems to me like a great price for a vehicle that has a power plant Toyota estimates (and estimated low from what I read) a 500k mile service life, amazing.

I’ve also been researching diesel swaps and there is a lot of info on that.

Go to dieseltoys.com and start looking into their info, then look at their price sheet. $25,000 for a 3.0 D4D in a 05 + Tacoma is pretty staggering, $30,000 for a 95-04 Tacoma, not feasible.

They also had a lot of input into the recent crate 2.8 Cummins repower engine, and apparently the engines are Chinese made crap, highly unreliable with a short service life.

Then there’s a Cummins 4bt swap which is readily available in the US, but you have basically what many refer to as a paint-shaker, the thing vibrates so much it’ll rattle your teeth out of your head.

 

[DaveInDenver]

So @laxtoy, you must have read the Dieseltoys FAQ about the R2.8 and 4B-T.

The diesel Cruisers you see are 25+ years old, usually either originally Canadian, South American or sometimes RHD Japanese or Australian. You can get similar vintage Hilux and Surf/4Runner, but people don't seem as interested in bringing them in since they aren't as desirable.

You can't really compare the cost of a custom 1KZ-TE swap into a few year old truck cost to importing in a Canadian HJ61 or buying someone's already done swap. How much would it cost to have Proffitt or someone else build you a diesel 100 or 200? Way more than $25k.

This is a 1990 Hilux Surf with I think a 2L-TE, $10k is the asking.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-1990-T...o-Diesel-4-Runner-Right-Hand-Dr-/152636500713

 

[tacollie]

So @laxtoy, you must have read the Dieseltoys FAQ about the R2.8 and 4B-T.

The diesel Cruisers you see are 25+ years old, usually either originally Canadian, South American or sometimes RHD Japanese or Australian. You can get similar vintage Hilux and Surf/4Runner, but people don't seem as interested in bringing them in since they aren't as desirable.

You can't really compare the cost of a custom 1KZ-TE swap into a few year old truck cost to importing in a Canadian HJ61 or buying someone's already done swap. How much would it cost to have Proffitt or someone else build you a diesel 100 or 200? Way more than $25k.

This is a 1990 Hilux Surf with I think a 2L-TE, $10k is the asking.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-1990-T...o-Diesel-4-Runner-Right-Hand-Dr-/152636500713

That red interior is both exciting and terrifying! I like it.

The biggest issue is finding one you want. 25 years is a long time even for a Hilux. I agree with @DaveInDenver that it's probably better to find something you like here and build from there.

My brother lives in NZ and has a buddy who owns a diesel shop. They actually prefer the Ranger. It won't have a diesel here but it could be a solid choice given our options.

 

[Dalko43]

I’ve been searching Craigslist and there are a surprising number of diesel Landcruisers, some with really low miles, ranging from $10k-$20k, which seems to me like a great price for a vehicle that has a power plant Toyota estimates (and estimated low from what I read) a 500k mile service life, amazing.

I’ve also been researching diesel swaps and there is a lot of info on that.

Go to dieseltoys.com and start looking into their info, then look at their price sheet. $25,000 for a 3.0 D4D in a 05 + Tacoma is pretty staggering, $30,000 for a 95-04 Tacoma, not feasible.

They also had a lot of input into the recent crate 2.8 Cummins repower engine, and apparently the engines are Chinese made crap, highly unreliable with a short service life.

Then there’s a Cummins 4bt swap which is readily available in the US, but you have basically what many refer to as a paint-shaker, the thing vibrates so much it’ll rattle your teeth out of your head.

Have you actually test-driven the 2.8l Cummins, or are you just regurgitating what some online vendor claimed? Because your argument seems to mimic the one posted on dieseltoys website very closely.

FWIW, you should at least be a little bit skeptical of dieseltoys' claims, considering that their main business is swapping Toyota diesel engines into North American Toyota trucks.

Also, I highly doubt that that this vendor has done any of the EPA certifications that Cummins and other diesel manufacturers have. Putting a 2000's era overseas diesel engine into a 2000's era North American truck doesn't sound like a street-legal swap to me.


OP, if you want a Hilux, you're either looking at getting a 25 year old vehicle or you're looking at getting a duramax Colorado....those are the only options for now.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Also, I highly doubt that that this vendor has done any of the EPA certifications that Cummins and other diesel manufacturers have. Putting a 2000's era overseas diesel engine into a 2000's era North American truck doesn't sound like a street-legal swap to me.

It boils down to what you're allowed to do is make a factory clone of a vehicle configuration that was available and certified by the EPA.

It's expressly prohibited to swap medium duty engines into light duty vehicle, which means all 4B-T swaps, even an EPA legal engine, into a Land Cruiser are just against the rules as doing a 12HT or 1KZ-TE or whatever other non-EPA but model year correct engine would be. The pertinent thing to realize is just passing a state emissions test and getting a registration also does not make it legal. The EPA (or Customs in the case of an import) won't care about that if you've violated the rules.

Also, in this case, the R2.8 Cummins does have an EPA certification for pre-2000 light trucks, so it's a very viable solution.

 

[nomad_games]

OP, if you want a Hilux, you're either looking at getting a 25 year old vehicle or you're looking at getting a duramax Colorado....those are the only options for now.

eh. I'm not sold on the Colorado. That's a lot of GD money for a truck. I'll just keep my 98 4runner and maybe look at a diesel Landcruiser down the line. More likely I'll keep the T4R and add a Cummins Dodge or finally build that 4 link 3rd gen Econoline 7.3 swap 4x4 I want to do.

I also may be moving to Iceland for a couple years down the line, so if all goes well it's possible I could end up getting to have a HiLux temporarily, at least.

 

[Dalko43]

It boils down to what you're allowed to do is make a factory clone of a vehicle configuration that was available and certified by the EPA.

It's expressly prohibited to swap medium duty engines into light duty vehicle, which means all 4B-T swaps, even an EPA legal engine, into a Land Cruiser are just against the rules as doing a 12HT or 1KZ-TE or whatever other non-EPA but model year correct engine would be. The pertinent thing to realize is just passing a state emissions test and getting a registration also does not make it legal. The EPA (or Customs in the case of an import) won't care about that if you've violated the rules.

Also, in this case, the R2.8 Cummins does have an EPA certification for pre-2000 light trucks, so it's a very viable solution.

Using that same logic, swapping a more powerful 1/2 ton gasoline engine into a jeep or midsized truck is also against EPA rules. So that issue isn't just relevant to diesel swaps.

I'd be interested in learning how the OEM crate engines figure into all of this. Obviously GM and FCA offer a lot of powerful gasoline crate engines for jeep and SUV swaps...originally those engines were designed and "certified" for 1/2 ton or larger trucks. I'm sure those engines are legal, but I'd like to know the reasoning behind why.

Regardless, having an OEM actually jump through the necessary hoops to make engine swaps legal is more impressive in my view than one that just cuts corners and offers engines without any concern for legal implications.

I also may be moving to Iceland for a couple years down the line, so if all goes well it's possible I could end up getting to have a HiLux temporarily, at least.

Problem solved.

 

[nomad_games]

yeah if it happens. we'll see. After this last trip, I'm not sure. It's gotten so astronomically expensive to live over there, not sure if I can make it work.

 

[laxtoy]

Have you actually test-driven the 2.8l Cummins, or are you just regurgitating what some online vendor claimed? Because your argument seems to mimic the one posted on dieseltoys website very closely.

FWIW, you should at least be a little bit skeptical of dieseltoys' claims, considering that their main business is swapping Toyota diesel engines into North American Toyota trucks.

Also, I highly doubt that that this vendor has done any of the EPA certifications that Cummins and other diesel manufacturers have. Putting a 2000's era overseas diesel engine into a 2000's era North American truck doesn't sound like a street-legal swap to me.


OP, if you want a Hilux, you're either looking at getting a 25 year old vehicle or you're looking at getting a duramax Colorado....those are the only options for now.

To answer a few questions you stated right off, no, I haven’t seen a 2.8l Cummins in a vehicle other than watching the videos from Dirt Everyday where they outfitted a Jeep with one, so yes, I am regurgitating info from dieseltoys website, but most I bet is true.

It is a Chinese made Cummins, not an American made engine so right there is a turn off, and you can see an element of chinsyness such as a plastic oil pan (they even broke one in one of the episodes of Dirt Everyday) and I’d be pretty dissuaded by the fact there is likely little to no aftermarket for it so how are you going to get parts?

Go on eBay and there is a lot of genuine Toyota parts for those diesels so I’m still thinking an oem engine in a truck that has the near exact variant overseas mated to a D4D vs a 5V ZFE is a no brainer.

I was initially excited about the Cummins considering my Tacoma has over 300k miles on it and is my daily driver, but then the price tag went to $9000 before adapters or driveline mods or motor mounts and I said no to that, I’ll go with a rebuilt 3.4l with a supercharger for $3000 less.

I do agree with you in one aspect, the only way you’re getting a Hilux here is to import one 25 years old, but dieseltoys did say they have an option for a swap that has been executed several times and they said owners have been getting them licensed, so besides the outrageous price tag I don’t think you can rationally eliminate that as a possibility.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Regardless, having an OEM actually jump through the necessary hoops to make engine swaps legal is more impressive in my view than one that just cuts corners and offers engines without any concern for legal implications.

You are maybe being too hard on a shop compared to a manufacturer. If the topic is philosophical about market realities vs. regulation it's a different argument.

If you're worried about emissions, test emissions. Does it matter what is under the hood or what hoops the OEMs jumped through? Doing that doesn't guarantee the vehicle will forever meet those standards so they have to perpetually test in many places anyway. So if down the line you change engines and still meet the numbers they say were kosher who cares the background and source of the engine? It either does or doesn't continue to meet those standards.

But even so, Toyota has done a whole lot of work making a 1KZ-TE be highly efficiency and it meets EURO IV and Aussie emissions rules that applied and similar and maybe tighter than the EPA Tier 0 Cummins has done with the 2.8 crate engines. Someone swapping a D-4D into a 4Runner just lacks a slip of paper giving Uncle Sam's approval since Toyota never sold it here. But it will meet just about every other aspect and intent to follow the rules in practice since they'll pass a tailpipe sniffer and smoke checker just fine.

I also think it's ironic that the guy who wants a professional swapped (those Dieseltoys swaps appear like they were stock) 1KZ-TE is the Federal criminal while the coal rolling jerk sticking some eBay piggyback ECU on gets a $100 citation from a local traffic cop.

 

[Dalko43]

To answer a few questions you stated right off, no, I haven’t seen a 2.8l Cummins in a vehicle other than watching the videos from Dirt Everyday where they outfitted a Jeep with one, so yes, I am regurgitating info from dieseltoys website, but most I bet is true.

It is a Chinese made Cummins, not an American made engine so right there is a turn off, and you can see an element of chinsyness such as a plastic oil pan (they even broke one in one of the episodes of Dirt Everyday) and I’d be pretty dissuaded by the fact there is likely little to no aftermarket for it so how are you going to get parts?

Go on eBay and there is a lot of genuine Toyota parts for those diesels so I’m still thinking an oem engine in a truck that has the near exact variant overseas mated to a D4D vs a 5V ZFE is a no brainer.

I was initially excited about the Cummins considering my Tacoma has over 300k miles on it and is my daily driver, but then the price tag went to $9000 before adapters or driveline mods or motor mounts and I said no to that, I’ll go with a rebuilt 3.4l with a supercharger for $3000 less.

I do agree with you in one aspect, the only way you’re getting a Hilux here is to import one 25 years old, but dieseltoys did say they have an option for a swap that has been executed several times and they said owners have been getting them licensed, so besides the outrageous price tag I don’t think you can rationally eliminate that as a possibility.

I think you owe it to yourself to check out that engine in person rather than rely on internet claims and short video's to form snap judgments.

FWIW, the guys over at Motortrend and Ultimate Adventure have had mostly good things to say about the 2.8l, as evidenced by how many builds are now featuring that engine. Plastic oil pan is one of the few negatives they've noted and one that can likely be remedied via the aftermarket (also it's generally a good practice to avoid hitting rocks with your oil pan, regardless of the material).

The engine is made in China, but it was designed by American engineers and is used in several different global markets. Also, quite a few automotive components and engines from big OEM's are made in places like Mexico and China, so I'll never understand why people make a big deal of that.
Parts availability shouldn't be a problem since you have Cummins vendors throughout North America. You'll certainly have an easier time finding parts for that 2.8l Cummins than you will for a Toyota diesel (at least in North America).

But even so, Toyota has done a whole lot of work making a 1KZ-TE be highly efficiency and it meets EURO IV and Aussie emissions rules that applied and similar and maybe tighter than the EPA Tier 0 Cummins has done with the 2.8 crate engines. Someone swapping a D-4D into a 4Runner just lacks a slip of paper giving Uncle Sam's approval since Toyota never sold it here. But it will meet just about every other aspect and intent to follow the rules in practice since they'll pass a tailpipe sniffer and smoke checker just fine.

I also think it's ironic that the guy who wants a professional swapped (those Dieseltoys swaps appear like they were stock) 1KZ-TE is the Federal criminal while the coal rolling jerk sticking some eBay piggyback ECU on gets a $100 citation from a local traffic cop.

On principle, I agree with you. The newer Toyota diesel engines, though they don't meet EPA regulations are much better for the environment than old thirsty gasoline v8's and/or some old pre-emissions diesel tuned for high horsepower. I would certainly prefer to see those engines made available.

But from a perspective of cost, logistics and EPA compliance, the 2.8l Cummins is a more viable engine swap option than a 1KZ-TE (or comparable overseas diesel) swap.