Barn Door for JK factory hardtops
- Thread starter jscherb
- Start date
jscherb
Expedition Leader
A retail price of $750 for a fiberglass hard barn door in black including mounting hardware, window and new weatherstrip for the hardtop but no wiper/washer should be reasonable for a company to hit. The later model version would probably be $100-$150 more because it requires wide-swing hinges and a slightly more expensive replacement weatherstrip for the hardtop.
A wiper/washer option I'd guess could end up being $250, it would require a wiper motor, wiper arm and blade, wiring harness, washer nozzle, washer hose extension and wiper motor cavity cover.
All of this would depend on the company's overhead, labor rates, profit margin requirements, marketing budget allocation to this product, amortization of the production molds, etc., but if all those are reasonable those retail prices could be hit.
Here in upstate NY I use the wiper/washer all the time on both the JK Safari and the LJ Safari, I'm surprised people don't find the need for it.
A wiper/washer option I'd guess could end up being $250, it would require a wiper motor, wiper arm and blade, wiring harness, washer nozzle, washer hose extension and wiper motor cavity cover.
All of this would depend on the company's overhead, labor rates, profit margin requirements, marketing budget allocation to this product, amortization of the production molds, etc., but if all those are reasonable those retail prices could be hit.
Here in upstate NY I use the wiper/washer all the time on both the JK Safari and the LJ Safari, I'm surprised people don't find the need for it.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
In my particular case, the swing out carrier is so loaded, there isn't a view out the rear window.
But something just dawned on me. Can the offset rear hinges be used when the bumper has a swing out carrier?
The stock hinges are within 1/2" of hitting the spindle when fully opened now. How far do your offset hinges swing the tail gate towards the passenger side, compared to stock hinges?
But something just dawned on me. Can the offset rear hinges be used when the bumper has a swing out carrier?
The stock hinges are within 1/2" of hitting the spindle when fully opened now. How far do your offset hinges swing the tail gate towards the passenger side, compared to stock hinges?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
This photo shows a prototype wide-swing hinge compared to a factory hinge. The hinge pin in the wide-swing hinge is about 1" to the passenger side compared to the stock hinge pin position.
In case anyone doesn't know why wide-swing hinges are needed for a barn door on a late model wide-hatch hardtop... it's a geometry problem - the right side of the hatch/barn door is to the right of the factory hinge pin, so if you mounted a barn door with stock hinges, the part of the barn door to the right of the factory hinge pin swings inward when the barn door swings outward. That doesn't work.
On the early model narrow-hatch hardtop there is no issue because the left edge of the hatch/bath door is not to the left of the factory hinge pin location.
Last edited:
unkamonkey
Explorer
Jsherb, I like all of the things you build and you are a good craftsman and you pay great attention to the details.
I understand why you don't build these to sell as I used to build one off wood furnature pieces for people and doing one set was a hobby, People wanted me to do more, more pieces would be would be a job.
I already had a job.
You don't build anything for a '61 3B with a Koenig hard top?
I understand why you don't build these to sell as I used to build one off wood furnature pieces for people and doing one set was a hobby, People wanted me to do more, more pieces would be would be a job.
I already had a job.
You don't build anything for a '61 3B with a Koenig hard top?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Thanks. Building things for hire would take all the fun out of it, it would be a real drudge job
.I like building things with people though, as long as they're participating in the project. The first barn door to go on a JK was for a friend - I taught him fiberglass as part of the project and he did most of the work. It was a lot of fun working with him - here he is bolting up his barn door to his JK, he's got a late model wide-hatch hardtop and we also built the prototype wide-swing hinges for him.
No, I've never done anything for a flatfender. Since I'm 6'6", I can't really even drive one
.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Back to the details of making a soft barn door...
I mounted the barn door upper to the tailgate using the same mounting "stakes" that the hard barn door uses. These are made from 1 1/2" x 3/4" rectangular tubing. There are two tabs welded to each stake, these are used to bolt the stakes to the tailgate. The bolts are pretty simple - they're longer bolts in 4 of the spare tire carrier bolt holes. I removed 4 of the factory spare carrier bolts, drilled through the inside sheet metal of the tailgate with a drill inserted in the hole from the outside, and then ran longer 8mm bolts through the holes. The ends of the bolts protrude a bit through the tailgate and serve as studs to attach the stakes. Then I cut a factory plastic wiring cover to fit between the stakes, and I made clearance holes in the cover for the bolts/nuts.
There are other ways the upper might be mounted to the tailgate, but this seemed like an easy way to do it with minimal modification to the taiglate. An important thing about the mounting is that it must be stiff enough so that the upper exerts pressure on the liftgate seal, so if you decide on a different mounting method, make sure it's stiff enough so the upper applies enough pressure to seal well.
Next: sewing the skin.
I mounted the barn door upper to the tailgate using the same mounting "stakes" that the hard barn door uses. These are made from 1 1/2" x 3/4" rectangular tubing. There are two tabs welded to each stake, these are used to bolt the stakes to the tailgate. The bolts are pretty simple - they're longer bolts in 4 of the spare tire carrier bolt holes. I removed 4 of the factory spare carrier bolts, drilled through the inside sheet metal of the tailgate with a drill inserted in the hole from the outside, and then ran longer 8mm bolts through the holes. The ends of the bolts protrude a bit through the tailgate and serve as studs to attach the stakes. Then I cut a factory plastic wiring cover to fit between the stakes, and I made clearance holes in the cover for the bolts/nuts.
There are other ways the upper might be mounted to the tailgate, but this seemed like an easy way to do it with minimal modification to the taiglate. An important thing about the mounting is that it must be stiff enough so that the upper exerts pressure on the liftgate seal, so if you decide on a different mounting method, make sure it's stiff enough so the upper applies enough pressure to seal well.
Next: sewing the skin.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
This photo shows a prototype wide-swing hinge compared to a factory hinge. The hinge pin in the wide-swing hinge is about 1" to the passenger side compared to the stock hinge pin position.
Yeah, that confirms what I was thinking. So those hinges won't work on Jeeps using a swing out tire carrier, with the spindle on top of the bumper, unless it has a big offset to the passenger side.
In my case, If the Barn door did come to fruition, I'd use the older shorter style, and fabricate trim pieces as in your original design thoughts for the hard top.
This would also make a zip in jamb easier to create for the soft top.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
A while back I picked up barely used Bestop Pavement Ends bikini top in Spice for about $30; it'll provide more than enough fabric for the barn door plus some other accessory...
To make the main skin, I made a pattern by tracing the frame on poster board. The pattern is longer on the bottom than the barn door is tall because the bottom of the skin will wrap around the bottom of the frame. Also, the curve of the weatherstrip at the top corners is a more gradual curve than the liftgate opening, so I extended the corners of the pattern to match the sharper corners of the opening - the extended top corners are visible in this photo of the pattern.
The main skin will be sewn inside-out and reversed after sewing. I did this so the seam between the outside and inside is exactly along the sides of the frame. When I cut the main skin out I'll leave a 3/8" seam allowance all around.
The outside skin is a single full piece, but the inside is made from 3 narrower pieces. You could start with a full piece on the inside, but since only the edges are needed, it's a waste of expensive fabric to do it that way. It's best to start with an outside skin that's one piece though, that help keeps the shape until the window is sewn in and helps avoid wrinkles in the final product. Here are the 4 parts, they're inside out in this photo. First I'll sew the three inside pieces together, then I'll sew the inside and outside together.
Once it's sewn, it's reversed and tried on for size:
It fits nicely, so on to the next step. If it turned out to be a little loose, the fix is simple - turn it inside out again and run a new line of stitches along the seam but perhaps 1/8" inboard, which will tighten it up when reversed.
Next: Velcro and zippers to secure it to the frame.
To make the main skin, I made a pattern by tracing the frame on poster board. The pattern is longer on the bottom than the barn door is tall because the bottom of the skin will wrap around the bottom of the frame. Also, the curve of the weatherstrip at the top corners is a more gradual curve than the liftgate opening, so I extended the corners of the pattern to match the sharper corners of the opening - the extended top corners are visible in this photo of the pattern.
The main skin will be sewn inside-out and reversed after sewing. I did this so the seam between the outside and inside is exactly along the sides of the frame. When I cut the main skin out I'll leave a 3/8" seam allowance all around.
The outside skin is a single full piece, but the inside is made from 3 narrower pieces. You could start with a full piece on the inside, but since only the edges are needed, it's a waste of expensive fabric to do it that way. It's best to start with an outside skin that's one piece though, that help keeps the shape until the window is sewn in and helps avoid wrinkles in the final product. Here are the 4 parts, they're inside out in this photo. First I'll sew the three inside pieces together, then I'll sew the inside and outside together.
Once it's sewn, it's reversed and tried on for size:
It fits nicely, so on to the next step. If it turned out to be a little loose, the fix is simple - turn it inside out again and run a new line of stitches along the seam but perhaps 1/8" inboard, which will tighten it up when reversed.
Next: Velcro and zippers to secure it to the frame.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Most of the sewing techniques needed for this barn door skin are pretty standard, but I'll pass along a few tips that may help.
I don't like using pins like a dressmaker might to temporarily hold seams together for sewing, pins make unnecessary holes in things I'm sewing that are supposed to be waterproof.
To keep two pieces of fabric accurately aligned while sewing, I use Seamstick Basting Tape. Available from Sailrite (www.sailrite.com), basting tape is double-sided tape that holds the two pieces together, and stays inside the seam after sewing. It also helps waterproof a seam. Here's a video about it from Sailrite:
If I'm sewing an edge seam, like the one around the outside of the barn door, in addition to using basting tape I'll also use snap hair clips - the hold the fabric very tight and don't they don't make holes like pins do.
About zippers - often a zipper will need to be shortened, which means you'll be cutting the stops off the end that keep the slider on the zipper. Adding new stops is easy with the plastic zippers I use, I just cut a tooth off the scrap that was cut off when shortening the zipper, insert it between two teeth where I want the stop to be, and melt the inserted tooth and the surrounding two teeth together with a soldering iron. Quick, easy and free.
Left to right in the photo below: cutting the zipper to length (make sure the starter tab end is on the piece you intend to keep), inserting cut off teeth in the end of the zipper, and the final result after the teeth have been melted together with a soldering iron and trimmed with cutting pliers:
One finishing touch for the cut zipper is to run the soldering iron quickly across the cut ends of the fabric - this will slightly melt the fabric and prevent it from unraveling.
I don't like using pins like a dressmaker might to temporarily hold seams together for sewing, pins make unnecessary holes in things I'm sewing that are supposed to be waterproof.
To keep two pieces of fabric accurately aligned while sewing, I use Seamstick Basting Tape. Available from Sailrite (www.sailrite.com), basting tape is double-sided tape that holds the two pieces together, and stays inside the seam after sewing. It also helps waterproof a seam. Here's a video about it from Sailrite:
If I'm sewing an edge seam, like the one around the outside of the barn door, in addition to using basting tape I'll also use snap hair clips - the hold the fabric very tight and don't they don't make holes like pins do.
About zippers - often a zipper will need to be shortened, which means you'll be cutting the stops off the end that keep the slider on the zipper. Adding new stops is easy with the plastic zippers I use, I just cut a tooth off the scrap that was cut off when shortening the zipper, insert it between two teeth where I want the stop to be, and melt the inserted tooth and the surrounding two teeth together with a soldering iron. Quick, easy and free.
Left to right in the photo below: cutting the zipper to length (make sure the starter tab end is on the piece you intend to keep), inserting cut off teeth in the end of the zipper, and the final result after the teeth have been melted together with a soldering iron and trimmed with cutting pliers:
One finishing touch for the cut zipper is to run the soldering iron quickly across the cut ends of the fabric - this will slightly melt the fabric and prevent it from unraveling.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
Do you glue in the zipper end stops, or use heat to "melt" them together?
I like your idea on the basting tape. Do you use that as well on the velcro to help seal the needle holes?
I like your idea on the basting tape. Do you use that as well on the velcro to help seal the needle holes?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
No glue, I wrote in that post that the teeth are melted together with a soldering iron.
I use basting tape on pretty much every seam, it increases the accuracy of the assembly and sewing and it does help seal the needle holes.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
Thanks Jeff! :beer:
Sorry I missed the soldering gun. That's perfect.
I'm very interested in this portion, as I've come across a nice commercial sewing machine, and can definitely put it to use.
Going way, way back. Did you use the OEM glass window to get the initial shape for the barn door form?
Sorry I missed the soldering gun. That's perfect.
I'm very interested in this portion, as I've come across a nice commercial sewing machine, and can definitely put it to use.
Going way, way back. Did you use the OEM glass window to get the initial shape for the barn door form?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
I traced the curves of the factory glass and transferred them to the wood I made the barn door mold masters from.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
I'm often asked about the sewing machine I use for these projects - I've got an early 60's Janome New Home machine. These machines (and similar ones) regularly sell for around $100 on eBay. They're all metal and extremely robust so they have no problem with sewing projects like these.
This sewing machine is one of my two most favorite and most useful power tools
.