Buying a 1998 Discovery 1 Tomorrow!!!!!!!

[JeremyT101]

So the Rover has been in the shop for the past two and a half weeks, and it has been little more then a nightmare. I cannot even list what I have found out about that has have to have been fixed, stuff that never could have been known. This is getting ASTRONOMICALLY expensive, almost to the point where I'm going to be so far in debt when its done I may be forced to sell it anyways and so all this bull**** will be moot. My dad keeps saying like, this is what you have to do if you want to drive a truck into the backcountry, it needs to be safe and have everything work. I just found out today that both my front CV joints have rust in them because some ************* idiot screwed up the axel breathers and put silicone as a hub seal, not a paper one meant for rovers.

If I could list just the stuff that I have done to it, plus what the shop has done, you could understand. Although parts with an * the guy had just at his shop

Just me - replaced front right headlight*, side bulbs inside headlights*, one holder that was shorted out*, front right turn signal lens*, bulb holder* (was from another random car and just put on there), fix printed circuit on back of left taillight(water got into it, rusted), new bulb holder for right rear brake light* (shorted). Both of the rear trailing arm bushings were shot, my dad and i replaced those.

Other **** - Ignition cylinder* (used, have two keys now), wiper motor and arm assembly* (wasn't even for a disco), washer control arm*, washer/wiper steering column control harness (was fried, and cut), the transfer case is freed up, plug wires/plugs replaced, and now my ************* CV joints, half shafts and front diff had to be taken apart and cleaned, lubed and put back together. All four rotors were garbage along with the pads, the rear calipers had to be rebuilt.

All of this coupled with the fact the truck has seen like two weeks worth of labour time, we are starting to work into the like 6-7K + range of money here. I can almost guarantee no one would pay 10 grand for this truck after all this, even if its perfect condition. Granted many of these things I could have never known, no matter what mechanic I had look at before I bought it, but it just goes to show that buying a Rover is like playing russian roulette. Sometimes you dodge the bullet with one that hasn't been ****ed up by every other mechanic in sight, and sometimes you take a bullet to the head. Like me right now. Bah.

 

[AndrewClarke]

Hey. When I was there on Saturday, Ian and his friends went all around my truck and basically laughed and gasped at everything. I've been around long enough to be able to differentiate between his opinions on what "needs to be done", and my opinions.

That being said, he seems to really know his stuff. For example, I'd known my turbo was going to need some work, but had basically shelved that in a part of my brain that I don't access very often. Ian pulled the hose off the turbo and things were looking very scary in there. I'm dropping my truck off there tomorrow afternoon and the turbo is being pulled and replaced. He also pointed out some other issues with my engine that could be corellated with the turbo, so I'm having those looked into as well. He also showed me how that strange valve tapping noise I hear every time I start my 200tdi ISN'T actually normal, as he had another on hand to compare with. However, that issue I'm going to leave for now.

I'm going to have him do some steering work since it needs it, and he'll go a bit farther than I would have, because he had some good points that I hadn't considered. I'll also probably get him to replace my fuse panel, but that's something I was planning on doing myself anyway in the next couple weeks. Ditto fixing the driver's door handle and catch.

Yes, my rear crossmember is rusty. Yes, my wiring is "a mess", and my bulkhead will need replacement soon. The wiring may be a mess, but I think it's overall getting better, not worse. Plus, it's "my" wiring, so I know what I've done with it. Yes, there are some Big Scary rust holes. And on and on and on. However, it's important to take what someone says and then do triage on what needs to be done NOW, and what can be done later.

Any '95 Discovery you bought would need work, especially (from my brief experience with him) if you take it to someone like Ian who is experienced enough to find all the faults with it. If you stick with it (I'm not saying you SHOULD, but IF), you'll come out of it with a vehicle that's probably very sound and reliable, and more importantly, you'll come out of it with a lot of knowledge on how your truck works that you can use to your advantage later.

As an example, a few years ago I got water into my engine and caused some pretty serious damage. My friends and I pulled the engine, and "fixed" it. We replaced a conrod, some rings, etc. I'd never pulled an engine before, and I learned a whole lot through that process. It turns out the crankshaft also needed replacing, there was a crack in the head, and the valves needed serious work too. I had to send the truck off after that and spend several thousand dollars more to redo the work I'd already done. That hurt financially and precipitated the vehicle sitting for over a year while I took my time authorizing the work to get it back on the road. I really wish I hadn't gotten water in the engine, and I wish I'd fixed it right the first time through. However, in an attempt to look at the positive aspects of the situation, I did learn a lot about engine internals.

Done typing,
- Andrew.

 

[JeremyT101]

Haha I could see them doing that, they are a funny group of guys. But yes, as you say he really, really does know his stuff. Plus he has all the right tools, parts, and know how to fix our trucks, and have it done right. He knows that I'm working on a very limited budget and am basically out of cash, and so he's been pulling a lot of used parts off of trucks for me, letting me do some work in the shop, and generally just being a champ.

I'm really not complaining about him at all, just more about the truck itself. I know that these things are expensive and finicky but I didn't know so much could go wrong so quickly and have so many other owners never fix it. The PO had no idea about 3/4's of what was going on with his truck. I am trying to keep looking at this as a learning situation, get to know the truck, know its solid. So when I drive it up the Dempster, or the Trans-taiga and I'm like 700km away from the nearest town,I know its not going to snap an axle. Its still starting to feel like a 'woman'. it burns you over and over, you keep coming back, but eventually it burns you enough to drop it and stop dating for a while. Thats kind of how I feel about cars right now lol. And maybe yes, this only like 6-7K (which is something like the cost of just the transmission if it was toast), but as a guy coming out of university with pennies to his name, it feels like 300k. ( I just thank god I have a good summer job lined up for april so I can start paying off this debt)

/end my own rant now.

 

[Howski]

I know many have said it before, but you are in way over your head. You could spend the '6-7 grand' to have someone fix it or just get a new truck for less than this. A Land Rover is probably not the right truck for you if you are not willing to learn to work on it yourself. All of this could be fixed in your driveway with some hand tools, jack and jackstand for far less but you seem unwilling to attempt this. Finally, buying a Rover is not like Russian roulette. If you would have had it inspected by someone in the first place instead of taking the seller's word, you would have seen it has been neglected and required a ton of maintainence. It just seems to me that you have some sour grapes over your poor decision

 

[rijosho]

Not to beat a dead horse, but regarding buying the basic mechanical tools, having the basic knowledge and time to do the required small things and mechanical work over time, etc. these should have all been things you saw during your research before purchasing this truck - especially if the intended purpose of this vehicle was/is to bring it overlanding. One of the first steps in overlanding is being prepared - that means tools, spare parts, etc. etc. - not just winging it. Secondly, a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) is paramount, regardless of how wealthy the PO says the original owner was, how clean his driveway is, the nicely tanned and oiled leather interior, etc. I purchased my Defender for one of the sole purposes of wanting to learn and dive into the mechanical aspects of proper maintenance, as it was always something that fascinated me, and the diagnostical knowledge I've gained from being able to do some of my own work (granted I'm still intimidated by things I haven't yet done before on the car) has been rewarding all in itself. Rotors and pads are simple and somewhat technical, and when done yourself, saves probably an additional $300 or more!

Sorry for the tough love here, man, but it seems like you're ignoring a lot of the people who are saying it's not that bad, and instead just doing a woe is me. LR owners are some of the best people I've met; similar interests, helpful, knowledgeable, and did I say helpful? Someone said join the local LR club - have you done that? Get involved, schedule a "shop day" spend a few hundred bucks on parts, 2 pizzas, 24 beers, and you'll have a functioning truck plus new knowledge in the noggen and experience on your hands, and stains on your clothes. I'm also in my 20s and went with the Defender over say a RRC or Disco because I wanted a more mechanical truck with fewer electronics, and I haven't looked back since. I love the thing, and have made a ton of friends (I think) in the process.

That said, I'll buy that set of wheels from you for $100 shipped if you're ready to start parting this puppy out!!!!

 

[JeremyT101]

Ah you see there is a couple of issues with this. Yes, alot of this can be fixed with hand tools, a jack and some jack stands. It was never that I was unwilling to do these things it was that I simply didn't have the means, not having any of those things, worked on a car before..ect. Also, I have been working on it, I fixed all the electrical stuff, replaced the bushings, took the shocks off and replaced the bushings for these as well and put them back on. I could have done the wires, plugs..several other small things. Lets just talk about that job I did last saturaday, replacing the trailing arm bushings. But even a job as simple as that, 5 bolts, 1 big one on the front of the arm, one for the pin in the back, and three on the bushing itself, are not so simple. We had the car up on a lift, sprayed penetrating oil on the big bolt at the front of the trailing arm 2h before we got to it. It took a MASSIVE rachet with the 1 1/16th socket that was about 2' long and as wide as the trailing arm itself, and a three foot breaker pipe with two people pulling/pushing as hard as possible and a third to push these two people to get that bolt loose. That is an impossible amount of leverage for a car up on 'jackstands'. Just one side took us like 2 hours of hard work on rusted bolts. We put it back together with new bolts and air tools but still.

I have said from the beginning I am willing to do the work myself, and I am learning it actually, but I didn't have the time or the money to spend the next 2-3 months working on it on weekends to try and fix these issues. And maybe I could have sold this one and bought a new truck, but who is to say that one won't have the same issues as this one? Even if I had to taken it to the mechanic before hand, we could have never known about the issues in the dash, in the CV joints, and the things I learned. I have been discounted pretty quick is a dumb teenager in over his head, and maybe I am, but I'm sure not the first.

Edit - To respond to the above post made while I was writing my reply. I bought mine for the same reasons as that, I just thought I could learn things over a period of time, not need to learn how to take apart and rebuild the entire truck all at once. I am learning, slowly, and I will learn as I have it and have to fix it in the future.

There is also no LR club around here, I checked. I reached out to people on all the local LR forums, groups, and got no replies. I'm lucky I found the shop I did where the guy lets me come in and do work on it, and teaches me about Rover. So while you guys might be laughing at me behind your computer screens or thinking I'm stupid, its not entirely the truth.

 

[rijosho]

So while you guys might be laughing at me behind your computer screens or thinking I'm stupid, its not entirely the truth.

I don't think that at all. I think you belly flopped into the deep end of a pool when you probably should have tip-toe'd into the shallow end first, and are now calling for the lifeguards to save you, because you just realized you can't swim.

When I opened this thread I didn't realize there were 6-7 pages to it, and I read your first post; and got more and more concerned as I read through it. First I read "deal of the century" and saw the price and thought that's more than they're worth. Then, I saw "everything works" and thought for now. I took a year researching Defenders before I really started looking for one in earnest. In the first few days of researching I realized I needed to put both money aside to save for the initial purchase and budget up to around $5k for the first years maintenance to bring it up to a "known starting point" - I got lucky and the truck didn't need that much the first year, and it's been socked away earning a penny or two a year in interest as I draw funds from the account to do things on my own as they go bad, or as preventative maintenance.

You say the PPI wouldn't have uncovered the electrical stuff - that may or may not have been the case, but regardless, more time spent looking over this truck before you bought it, not buying the first one, and having someone else inspect it beforehand (and perhaps leaving a few more months before actually purchasing one) would have saved you lots of heartache, but mostly the surprise that all of this can happen (and add up) so fast!!!

 

[JeremyT101]

Calls mechanic today "Hey Ian, how's it going"........ "Jeremy! Your truck, its a nightmare".... Apparently the bearings in the CV joints were toast, and had to be replaced. okay, no big deal, second hand parts. (thats what I thought he meant anyways, im hoping it wasn't both half shafts... faceplam.jpg). Oh, and every single caliper had either one or both pistons seized. All four are apart being rebuilt with pistons, seals..ect. Told my mom on the phone today what this is going to come out to, she choked.

My heart is telling me SELL. Ill put it up for what its worth, plus what I got in it as basically a now perfect truck. Ill have enough time to wait for the right buyer, and hopefully not loose too much. Then comes, well what else would you drive, or what else would you buy that you don't have this same senerio? I figure, no more cars. My love is broken. I own lots of bikes, GF might have a car. All the overland dreams, gone. Ill just have to do them on mountain bikes even if I have to ride thousands of km's to make it there. Just hurts to see your dreams go I guess. Maybe to you guys who are older 7-8K is not a dream crushing sum, but thats all the money i will make in the next 5 months of full time work. And I'm lucky to have a job. I was supposed to drive my brother and I to it on the 15km daily commute but I figure, he can buy a bike.

Anyways once this gets all done with we can lock this thread and Ill stop posting, I'm sure you guys are sick of me. I just thought I would continue the saga for anyone who buys these trucks so they can hopefully learn from my terrible mistakes.

 

[David Harris]

Read through all this, and can't understand why you're walking away from the truck for the problems you have stated. Those are not difficult things to fix and are mostly in the maintenance category rather than major component failure. In fact I think that on almost any old 4x4 you would likely have to do those same things eventually. I would have just parked it while sorting through those things as time and money allowed. The estimates on parts and labor are way high for the work being done, especially because all of this is very easy for you to do with some study and a few tools, and perhaps the help of someone in a local club. I know a lot of people have said similar, but in the end it's probably best you're selling the truck because such hobbies take some dedication and practical investment. In fact, I would think twice about any auto based hobby at all. No offense meant to you because everyone has different comfort zones and priorities. . .

David

 

[LtFuzz]

Why do you insist on paying some guy with dubious qualifications $60-$100/hour to fix basic things like seized calipers and bad CV bearings? Did you even prop the truck up, take off the wheel, and have a look at what you were dealing with? Or did you just assume you weren't competent enough to fix it?

It seemed like you did the exact opposite of the advice given to you with respect to Rover ownership. At this point you probably need to cut your losses.

 

[rocrunr]

I don't like to see anyone run into troubles like this. What I don't understand is that if your parents are flipping the bill up front to fix it at that price why you didn't get them to buy you the tools and the parts. I don't know about you but 7g is a months wages and that equates to a lot of learning and wrenching.Like the old saying goes, A fool and his money will be soon parted. Wish ya luck but man I like to hold on to my money.

 

[dcwhybrew]

Calls mechanic today "Hey Ian, how's it going"........ "Jeremy! Your truck, its a nightmare".... Apparently the bearings in the CV joints were toast, and had to be replaced. okay, no big deal, second hand parts. (thats what I thought he meant anyways, im hoping it wasn't both half shafts... faceplam.jpg). Oh, and every single caliper had either one or both pistons seized. All four are apart being rebuilt with pistons, seals..ect. Told my mom on the phone today what this is going to come out to, she choked.

My heart is telling me SELL. Ill put it up for what its worth, plus what I got in it as basically a now perfect truck. Ill have enough time to wait for the right buyer, and hopefully not loose too much. Then comes, well what else would you drive, or what else would you buy that you don't have this same senerio? I figure, no more cars. My love is broken. I own lots of bikes, GF might have a car. All the overland dreams, gone. Ill just have to do them on mountain bikes even if I have to ride thousands of km's to make it there. Just hurts to see your dreams go I guess. Maybe to you guys who are older 7-8K is not a dream crushing sum, but thats all the money i will make in the next 5 months of full time work. And I'm lucky to have a job. I was supposed to drive my brother and I to it on the 15km daily commute but I figure, he can buy a bike.

Anyways once this gets all done with we can lock this thread and Ill stop posting, I'm sure you guys are sick of me. I just thought I would continue the saga for anyone who buys these trucks so they can hopefully learn from my terrible mistakes.

Then for crying out loud...sell the damn thing and quit posting...geez

You seemed to be headed in the right direction a few posts above where you listed all the repairs you did yourself...good job. Now make a decision;

1) sell it and shut up, or
2) keep it, QUIT BITCHING, fix it, and start posting technical how too questions.

P.S. If you chose #2, then also get involved on the discoweb.org if you haven't already. There is a ton of technical information on every fault and repair imaginable.

P.P.S. Buy a RAVE CD ($20 USD) It is a complete workshop and overhaul manual for land rovers up to the 3rd generation RR. It uses .pdf files and you can download it on your computer. It's great...this goes with #2 as well.

 

[JeremyT101]

Alright, well it seems I have overstayed my welcome here. I knew this forum had a particularly different feel then most others I had joined where people were not ridiculed if they weren't a mechanic, owned a huge set of tools and bags of time and cash. It seems like a pretty broad statement to make that unless you know how to take it all apart and put it back together you should SELL this car right now. The one question that has been bouncing around my mind is, then what the **** car does everyone think I should buy? If you run through all the different sections every single one has the same mentality. Toyota LC, LR, Nissan, Mistu, Jeep, everyone who owns these cars has absolutely not time for those who cannot rebuild the entire truck with parts from their local supply place. So what then? What SUV does everyone say I should own? No answers? No car then, is basically the argument. Sounds a bit ridiculous.

Well, sorry, I'm not a mechanic. Until a couple days ago I didn't even know what a CV joint was. I had planned to get this and due the Maintenance myself, and replace parts as they break from wheeling..ect not have the ability to rebuild most of the truck from the get go. This replaced my 20,000km/year Focus, which I drove, Everywhere, hell even off road, that's why I got this one, to do the same, but go Further. But on that car I never had to take a tire off once except for when I had a flat. So maybe I was babied in that it never had to see a mechanic in 50,000km.

Also, I did my best to take all of your advice. I knew from the start I could never all at once buy a large set of tools, jacks/jack stands and fix all the issues as they came up. This was my DD, not a project car I was going to work on for 6 months in the driveway. So I found the most qualified and well known Rover mechanic in my area, took it to him, worked out a deal where I came up on weekends to wrench and learn and figured I had done the best I could. Maybe you guys think labour/parts costs are high, well, I live in Canada, parts cost a hell of a lot more here then in the US for a lot of these things. That's just how it is. I'm also moving in three weeks, I was going to use this to help me move, now we gotta rent a van. I had no way to get everything from where I live now, to back home. Furthermore, neither my dad nor I have worked on cars profusely in the past, so hes not usually the type of guy to take cars apart, maybe your dad's were different. At the end of the day, maybe this was the wrong idea all along, and I had to learn a hard lesson and loose a lot of money, and a lot of dreams. Sell this truck and I see 2 years of dreaming, (really my whole life from when my dad to used to take me to monster trucks when I was a kid, been to every Toronto auto show for almost 11 years running) reading overland journal, spending hours and days on the internet drooling over trucks, places, trips, and its toast. So that's a tough pill to swallow. But apparently that **** means nothing if one can't disassemble and rebuild one's entire truck in their garage.

Anyways I'm out, done. To anyone that posted supporting comments, thanks. Maybe you all thought oh this young kid, he just needs tough love, or what an idiot haha. I guess I thought you guys might understand, people have an idea they love and jump into it, they just need some guidance and a kick in the butt to say hey man, once you get that **** back, its going to be insane, you will love it!! Not tell me I'm ************* dumb, like the rest of the world seems to. I think that hurts just as much as the whole car thing anyways. So yes, dcwhybrew i'll stop posting. Peace.

 

[David Harris]

Also, I did my best to take all of your advice. I knew from the start I could never all at once buy a large set of tools, jacks/jack stands and fix all the issues as they came up. This was my DD, not a project car I was going to work on for 6 months in the driveway. So I found the most qualified and well known Rover mechanic in my area, took it to him, worked out a deal where I came up on weekends to wrench and learn and figured I had done the best I could. Maybe you guys think labour/parts costs are high, well, I live in Canada, parts cost a hell of a lot more here then in the US for a lot of these things. That's just how it is.

As far as following advice, the advice everyone has been trying to give you is to not spend 5-7K having someone overcharge you to fix basic things on your truck. How can you give that kind of money to your doubtful mechanic and still say that you don't have money to buy a 100.00 set of tools, 25.00 jackstands, a free RAVE download? You're right. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from this experience. Self-honesty is one, and taking help and advice from others is another. Those other forums are telling you the same thing because it's true. Stay away from offroading/overlanding in any vehicle unless you are willing to learn how to fix and maintain your own truck, OR have money to burn having someone else fix it.

David

 

[AndrewClarke]

I'm actually sitting two blocks away from your vehicle right now. I had a chat with Ian about it two hours ago, and looked at it on the hoist.

I think people on here have been trying to give you some "tough love", because maybe they thought you needed it. Look, off-roading and overlanding are not cheap activities, no matter which vehicle you buy. You can spend $50k on a new Toyota if you want to spend $800/month or whatever on car payments. You can buy an older used vehicle if you're willing to either a) pay someone else to do the work, or b) do it yourself.

You've been complaining about how much it costs to fix your vehicle. Fair enough. People have suggested you do the work yourself. You have done some of it, but you've opted to pay someone else to do the majority of it. Fair enough. You can't have it both ways though. Maybe you could have looked around a bit longer and paid a bit more (or less) for a better Discovery. Maybe you could have paid 2-3x as much up front for a Toyota. No matter what you'd done though, you would have been in for some money, and quite a learning experience.

Many people do cross-country travel in cars like your old Ford Focus. You could have accepted the limitations of your budget, and traded those for the limitations of your Focus.

There are people around who buy trucks and pay others tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix their trucks up for them. There are others on here who do it all themselves with bailing twine and duct tape. Those in the latter group likely have years or decades of mechanical experience. That experience originated with a willingness to spend their evenings and weekends on the ground, in the mud, under their vehicle. Everyone started with no experience, and gained it from there.

As others have said, in hindsight you probably should have done what anyone who isn't a car expert should do before buying a used vehicle: had it independently appraised. The hole in your windshield should have alerted you that you had a $500 bill right there before you even started before you'd get it safetied. That information will help you next time, although it's just bitter medicine now.

Take this as a learning experience. Go through and read what people have said to you here. Almost every post here has been from someone who genuinely want to help you and see you succeed. The frustration you're reading in some posts likely stems from the fact that you've asked for advice, haven't taken it, and then are upset that things aren't working out the way you want.

In short, unless you get extraordinarily lucky, it's very unrealistic to expect someone who's unfamiliar with vehicles to spend $4500 (especially in Canada) and end up with a vehicle that is drive-across-the-country reliable. If that's what you expected, then I'm sorry but you were naïve. At that point, you should likely accept that you were naïve, man up, and either pay up or get dirty and learn to do it yourself. You can't have your cake and eat it too, in this case.

I was where you are, a broke university student with lots of dreams. I've gotten in over my head with vehicles before. Whichever decision you make at this point, it's going to hurt. You're either going to lose money on a sale, or you're going to be paying for your vehicle for the next while. If you don't learn something from this, then the whole experience has been for nothing.

- Andrew.