Canadian Disco 2 Build

[michaels]

landed on my rear bumper pretty hard yesterday and it didn't budge, fyi... also found out my newer slider design doesn't bend when coming down from 2'.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

OK, obviously that's a long lever you're hanging a pretty heavy weight on. Any chance you'd bring it in a little? I'm assuming the extra length is for the gas cans. You could drop the cans a bit and tilt the tire towards the back of the vehicle, allowing you to shorten the arm and maybe reduce the leveraging. I definitely think the tie-in to the frame at another point is necessary.

I'm not quite following you here.

The arm is the length it needs to be to span the door width so that the other stanchion on the driver's side doesn't block the door from opening. And yes, needed for the gas cans too. I tried to see if I could squeeze some cans between the tire and door as I'd seen elsewhere, but there's not enough clearance. The tire is as close as it can get to the swing arm, leaving room for a 255 or 285 in the future. And there's only about 3" between the swing and the back door. I have confirmed that the tire is outside of the departure angle line. I had thought about making the arm for the tire adjustable in length. Kinda wish I had but it's a little late now.

Anyway, the issue isn't any of the arm lengths involved. Those chassis mounts are really, really flexible. Just with the tow bar bolted to the bumper, I was able to move it just by pulling on the tow bar with my arms.

I think you would be surprised at how much all the stuff will flex dragging it on the trail. I have stood over a number of brands of bumpers as the tail end gets dragged over the ground or rocks as a truck starts to climb a obstacle and even the strongest designs flex alot.

You are going to need alot more clearence at the body or it will make its own clearence.

Yeah, I know. I got a little carried away trying to make it fit tight, but I'll open it up. Just not sure how much. I would think 1/2" should be ok.

Maybe a rubber stopper on the body to prevent a little sway (maybe with a larger backing)? If the stopper is on the swingaway, it would likely trash the paint and dent the door.

I thought about that, but I really think this needs to be solved at the frame. A bumper might stop the tire from moving going down the road, but when hitting things offroad, it would just kill the door.

landed on my rear bumper pretty hard yesterday and it didn't budge, fyi... also found out my newer slider design doesn't bend when coming down from 2'.

What's your new slider design? I'll be starting that next.

Have to figure out the axe and shovel mounts as well. Not sure if Quick Fists are the only way. Any input on that would be appreciated.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Oh, and I got a chuckle last night when I removed one of the rear wheels in order to drill out the mudflap rivets, and found a huge wad of fishing line wrapped around the axle. You know you've been through some water when... :Wow1: Pretty funny. I only wonder now if it might have chewed up the bearing seal. It didn't seem to be in the actual bearing area too much. But I'd love to check. Just pop the hub off, or is it worse than that?

 

[Alaska Mike]

I'm not quite following you here.

The arm is the length it needs to be to span the door width so that the other stanchion on the driver's side doesn't block the door from opening. And yes, needed for the gas cans too. I tried to see if I could squeeze some cans between the tire and door as I'd seen elsewhere, but there's not enough clearance. The tire is as close as it can get to the swing arm, leaving room for a 255 or 285 in the future. And there's only about 3" between the swing and the back door. I have confirmed that the tire is outside of the departure angle line. I had thought about making the arm for the tire adjustable in length. Kinda wish I had but it's a little late now.

Sorry, I think our terminology is mixed up. I was talking about the arm that the tire mounts to. It extends pretty far from the rear of the vehicle, adding even more leverage on the mounting points. From what I can see, the tire will be vertical. By tipping the top of the tire back towards the vehicle as much as you practically can, you could offset the leveraging to some degree by moving some of the weight over the hinge. By lowering the cans a bit, you can give yourself some room to do this. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, the issue isn't any of the arm lengths involved. Those chassis mounts are really, really flexible. Just with the tow bar bolted to the bumper, I was able to move it just by pulling on the tow bar with my arms.

But that chassis mount will still be part of the system, will it not? My concern is that unless you add umpteen million pounds of metal to the slider/bumper system, you will still have a little flex.

I thought about that, but I really think this needs to be solved at the frame. A bumper might stop the tire from moving going down the road, but when hitting things offroad, it would just kill the door.

That's what I was thinking was to install a backing plate- perhaps to the holes where the original spare mount went, and then installing the stopper onto it. By limiting the flex before it starts, you would limit the amount of damage it could do. I've see a lot of very beefy and well-engineered tire carriers move a substantial amount off-road.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[SeaRubi]

"Shouldn't be a problem as long as I tie the rear-quarter sliders into the frame."

I've seen RRC bumpers done this way. The wrap-around "wings" have a piece of tube that runs down to a plate that's bolted onto the frame to help tie it all together. You could look into plating the frame horns, but you might just end up ripping them off the frame entirely. tough call.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Sorry, I think our terminology is mixed up. I was talking about the arm that the tire mounts to. It extends pretty far from the rear of the vehicle, adding even more leverage on the mounting points. From what I can see, the tire will be vertical. By tipping the top of the tire back towards the vehicle as much as you practically can, you could offset the leveraging to some degree by moving some of the weight over the hinge. By lowering the cans a bit, you can give yourself some room to do this. Does that make any sense?

Ok, I got ya. Yeah... I could do that. I did want room back there for the axe and shovels though. Between the door and tire. I guess I could put the axe and shovel behind the tire. I'll see how it turns out after frame reinforcement. If it's still a problem I'll do something like that.

But that chassis mount will still be part of the system, will it not? My concern is that unless you add umpteen million pounds of metal to the slider/bumper system, you will still have a little flex.

I don't think it'll weigh a lot. Two pieces of 2"x1/4" L might weigh... couple pounds. And it was going to be back there anyway, for the tank skidplate. I'm more concerned about the complexity of mounting it up when it's all said and done. It'll have to be jacked up carefully. So far it bolts up very well even with the 6 bolts. The benefit of a custom job vs. a manufacturered piece, you can get the holes lined up perfectly.

That's what I was thinking was to install a backing plate- perhaps to the holes where the original spare mount went, and then installing the stopper onto it. By limiting the flex before it starts, you would limit the amount of damage it could do. I've see a lot of very beefy and well-engineered tire carriers move a substantial amount off-road.

Yeah, I'll look at that too, if needed. Would be easy enough to rig something up using the factory spare tire mounting holes and building a frame off that to hold a stopper.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Got both corner pieces all welded up and ground down. The photos don't really show it too well because the metal is too shiny. I also opened up the clearance a bit.

Then, had some liquid courage, and cut my fender! I'll be using 2x2 box tubing here. Also plan to have a piece of 14ga metal which will cover up the factory fender that remains, all the way up to the rub strip.

 

[Root Moose]

I like the look of the bumper.

I'm not familiar with these trucks but I'm thinking that you'll still need more clearance at the top of the bumper. Unless there is more than the images show.

I'm wondering if the hinge has enough support as well. I'd like to see some triangular gussets under the bottom of the hinge. Possibly something on the top of the hinge too. Nothing large scale, just enough to keep the deflection/fatigue minimised.

 

[AlexJet]

Rob, have you check your body flex? It looks like the gap is tight to the body panels. Double check before you paint it as you may need to trim something.
Mine doesn't flex as much on the back os on the front of the truck and I have 1/2" vertical and horisontal spacing to the body from top edge of the bumper. To be on a safe side I'd prefer 3/4, but I'm not rebuilding mine for another 1/4". Yours, meanwhile looks more to 1/8-1/4". May be it's just an angle of the camera.
I'd have to check this one in person. When are you going to be in GTA area?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Chris, do you mean across the top of the main beam? If so, actually that part is fine and we got lucky on the Disco. That's actually a rubber strip meant to close in the gap between the body and factory bumper. No issue there.

I've thought about gusseting the bottom of the hinge too, just wasn't sure if it would really be required. The hinge plates are 1/4", pretty stout. I'll probably do the bottom, but there's not practical way to do the top that I can see.

Alex, there's really a lot more clearance than it looks in the photos. There's a body cavity that the corners are tucking into, but you just can't see it in the photos. And the tape is making it look worse. There's 1/4" min, and up to 1/2" in some places. I'm still working on it. I just trim a bit every time I take it off and then check the fit. So still a work in progress. I'll try to get some better pictures.

Basically, I'm aware of the need for clearance, I've already opened it up some, and am still working on it. But there is already lots more than what it appears. I'm just not a great photographer.

 

[Root Moose]

Chris, do you mean across the top of the main beam? If so, actually that part is fine and we got lucky on the Disco. That's actually a rubber strip meant to close in the gap between the body and factory bumper. No issue there.

I was more concerned about the corners where that one piece of racer tape goes around the corner. Half inch sounds about right... try to flex it out on something before getting too crazy with final surface treatment?

I've thought about gusseting the bottom of the hinge too, just wasn't sure if it would really be required. The hinge plates are 1/4", pretty stout. I'll probably do the bottom, but there's not practical way to do the top that I can see.

Ok, 1/4" is good. I'd still gusset the bottom all the same. For the top, how about cutting a 1/2" strip of the 1/4" steel and bending it around a steel tube to make a U shape. Actually, doesn't even need to be 1/4". Then weld it around the outer edge of the hinge plate. Need to make sure you'd have enough space to get a socket on that bolt of course. Might be a good approach for the bottom as well. Flare out the top of the U into triangular gussets that meet the bumper.

I can sketch something if it is hard to decode what I mean.

JAT

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I think I know what you mean. I don't really think it'll do much on top. I realize the weight is "hanging" on the top plate to a certain extent. But gussetting the bottom plate will provide the most direct load path back into the main beam. I've also thought about welding on a fish plate onto the back of the stanchion to the main beam, just to be sure that stanchion is good and stiff. I do have to be careful about too much welding though, as things warp. If I weld a fish plate on the back, it'll pull that corner in tight to the body again and I'll have to flame straighten it again.

Yeah, I've definitely got a 1/4" min clearance around the corners, and I will probably open it up a bit more next time I have it off. That's not racers tape, that's ginuwine Duck Tape! I was scratching the paint a bit (well, ok, a lot) taking it on and off so I just threw that on temporarily.

Sorry, I think our terminology is mixed up. I was talking about the arm that the tire mounts to. It extends pretty far from the rear of the vehicle, adding even more leverage on the mounting points. From what I can see, the tire will be vertical. By tipping the top of the tire back towards the vehicle as much as you practically can, you could offset the leveraging to some degree by moving some of the weight over the hinge. By lowering the cans a bit, you can give yourself some room to do this. Does that make any sense?

Just re-reading this part, and I think I got what Mike was saying. If I *tip* the tire in closer to the body, it would be better. It's a way to get the tire closer to the body, while still leaving clearance to the beam on the bottom. I actually really like the mind's eye look of that. Match the tire's angle to that of the back door. I wish I hadn't finish welding the tire plate on, because I like that idea a lot. I'll have to see what I can do. It would prevent the axe and shovel from going behind the tire, but it's probably better that way. Maybe put the tools behind the tire. Or, I'd also thought about mounting them cross-wise to the main swing beam. At least, the shovel could go there, not sure about the axe.

 

[RonL]

What are you doing for a latch?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Using a truck/trailer paddle latch, I think... Then realized that might not be good enough. Was going to use it for convenience, and a pin as backup for the road. Now I'm wondering... just pin it. Probably no point in the latch.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Tacked on the rear fender slider tonight. 2x2x.125" box tube. I capped and ground the end before I welded it on. Also removed that little sheetmetal fender flap thing inside the wheel well. It's quite flimsy and there wasn't much support left after cutting the bottom of the fender. I also took another 1/2" off the bottom for clearance. A note, I find that it's easiest just to cut the aluminum panel with a cutoff blade in my angle grinder. Makes a lot of aluminum dust, but it's easier than a saw. The fender is now very floppy. I plan to support it off the slider somehow.

Here is a better picture of the clearance to the body on the upper corner. There's about 1/4-3/8" here, but I'll be grinding a bit more off. You can see the pocket stamped into the body better, but it's still obscured a bit due to the tape.