CC for wilderness camping/hiking...

WhereTheHellIsJames?

WhereTheHellIsJames?

Explorer
There are weirdo's out there, and at different times, I have run into some of them. Some neighbors had a really scary experience several years ago when a couple of said weirdo's attempted to do bad things to he and his wife while they were tent camping. Something scared them off just in time, and my neighbors were lucky... at that point he was bound, and she was... well, vulnerable. Very bad things almost happened.

I'm not fond of uncomfortable situations while afield, and have been involved in a few before, but it turns out that in the end, they were completely harmless... but what if they didn't turn out that way? What if some strangers decided to attempt bad things on my partner and I?

I'm a bird hunter and trap shooter, and am comfortable around shotguns as well as rifles and handguns. However, I've never really owned a handgun with the intent of using it as a concealed carry.

Anyways, to the point here... I'm thinking about the S&W model 327PD revolver? It looks like a great option for a CC at 24.3oz., especially for backpacking/wilderness hiking where one does not want to be weighed down with a heavy sidearm. I like the feel of a .357, and am confident that it would stop an attacker if the unthinkable happened.

If anyone has some experience with this gun, please share your thoughts. I like the idea of a .357, and probably wouldn't go bigger unless there was a really sound reason to do so. Also, I think that I'm pretty set on a revolver due to it's ability to operate reliably in less than perfect conditions. However, I'm definitely open to other ideas. As stated, this would be my first gun with CC in mind, but would not be a daily CC... only in the deep woods/wilderness. Also note that the purpose for the arm would be to stop a human attacker, not an animal.

Thanks for the input!
 
snipecatcher

snipecatcher

Adventurer
Yeah

I have a Smith and Wesson Airweight model 442 for concealed carry. It will not fire 357's, but it is capable of handling the 38 +P rounds, which are basically the same as a 357. It is one of the lightest guns you will find for CC, and the Airweight line is about the most popular. I can stick it in my jeans pocket without a holster and you would never know it's there, plus it doesn't try to pull my pants down. Just a thought.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/firearms/images/FDs_w_442L.jpg

-Dan
 
ntsqd

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
Barring some of the more exotic platings (RoBar's NP3 being one of the best) for that sort of use you want either stainless or alloy, or a combo of them. Fixed sights are fine and much more reliable than adjustables. They are also lower profile so they do not snag on clothing & what-not when being brought into action.

You will need to shoot it regularly to stay in tune with where it shoots. Some or most of those practice rounds need to be the ammunition that you actually carry in the firearm. That can get expensive, but when you really do need it, the use of it will need to be instinctual and not aimed.
 
SOAZ

SOAZ

Tim and Kelsey get lost..
Have you looked at the Walther PPS?
I took a look at one yesterday. Its available in single stack as a 9mm or .40.

It is the thinest gun I've seen.

I'm thinking about it.:peepwall:
 
WhereTheHellIsJames?

WhereTheHellIsJames?

Explorer
snipecatcher said:
I have a Smith and Wesson Airweight model 442 for concealed carry. It will not fire 357's, but it is capable of handling the 38 +P rounds, which are basically the same as a 357. It is one of the lightest guns you will find for CC, and the Airweight line is about the most popular. I can stick it in my jeans pocket without a holster and you would never know it's there, plus it doesn't try to pull my pants down. Just a thought.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/firearms/images/FDs_w_442L.jpg

-Dan
Click to expand...

I was considering this one as well, but I really like the idea of a double-action. Also, the model 327 has a 4" barrel which gives me a beter piece of mind since I can't barely hit the side of a barn at 10' with one of the stubbys like the 442 has.

I'm with you on the ability to be ultra-concealed though- especially since many, if not most of the folks that I run with are anti-gun types (probably from lack of experience), and are uncomfortable around people who carry a firearm.

Super lightweight is the way that I'll go since not having the gun weigh me down is pretty critical for my application. I'm considering the airlight because it is what I'm familiar with. I'm not really a 'gun guy', so I don't know too much about comparables. Any thoughts on other super-lightweight double-action revolvers that I might consider?
 
F

FLYFISHEXPERT

LivingOverland.com
Bigger is always better

A few thoughts on the subject:
Remember for camping you shouldn't be as concerned about concealed carry, so having a gun 'print' on your clothing is not an issue. The S&W's are great guns but are expensive. The .357 is a prooven round and in a pack pistol it will work well.

No matter what route you take for caliber/pistol, everything can come crashing down if you purchase a cheap holster. The two work in tandem. For hiking and camping you should be better off with a kydex holster and there are some fine companies out there. I own a Side Armor kydex holster for my Springfield Tactical XD in 45ACP and it is great. The kydex will withstand the outdoor environment and sweat as apposed to leather or fabric types of holsters. But what ever you do...USE A HOLSTER!!! Don't stick it in your pocket or down the front of your pants. Bad things happen that way.

Another note is USE YOUR PISTOL. The pistol is an extension of you! It is no good if you don't know how to use it. Spend some money and get a range membership, it is defiantly worth it.

Also, check your local laws regarding concealed carry. You will have to obtain a permit, and many states require classes. Now CCL's are usually only required in cities and towns, but states are different. I know, here in Idaho, I have to have my CCL when in a city or when driving on highways and such. That being said, you won't need a CCL if you are out in the 'outdoors'.

Also for anyone looking for reliable information on any firearm, you should check out www.gun-tests.com. I subscribe to this magazine, and they do a great job of comparing guns and giving their opinions on reliability and such. Just because a gun looks neat, doesn’t mean it works!
 
ntsqd

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
In S&W "J" framed .38's there are 3 hammer options, exposed, Shrouded, and concealed. The first two allow the option of single action use in a addition to double action operation. The concealed option has no exposed or available hammer spur to cock the firearm for single action use.

Based on what you've said I'd look at the Model 638. It is stainless/alloy, and it has the concealed hammer that will allow single action use without offering a snagging point. It does have a short barrel, but they can be shot well if you understand the limits of their range.
The only advantage I see in going to a 4" barrel for this use is that the cylinder will hold 6 instead of 5.

163070_large.jpg


In the past I have seen custom shop guns and limited run gun models from S&W that had longer barrels. 3" is about as long as they ever got in this frame size & caliber.
 
L

Lynn

Expedition Leader
I'm no expert, but I used to know one... :) And he talked me out of buying a lightweight for CC:

Guy I used to work for runs a shooting ranch with classes for CC, home defense, and also close-combat and urban warfare stuff for police, SWAT, etc. He runs training for police squads internationally.

He's not a fan of lightweight guns. He says that the kick is usually severe enough that the shooter doesn't put in enough range time. If a gun is miserable to shoot you won't shoot it. He's a big fan of compact 1911-style steel arms for CC, and pistol-caliber carbines for home defense. He says get a heavier gun, a good holster or carry bag, and get used to the weight.

Even with a lot of practice, you'll probably be a better shooter with a heavier gun, as things like target acquisition are easier on subsequent rounds.

Not trying to tell you you're wrong, just bringing a different perspective.
 
P

peekay

Adventurer
WhereTheHellIsJames? said:
There are weirdo's out there, and at different times, I have run into some of them. Some neighbors had a really scary experience several years ago when a couple of said weirdo's attempted to do bad things to he and his wife while they were tent camping. Something scared them off just in time, and my neighbors were lucky... at that point he was bound, and she was... well, vulnerable. Very bad things almost happened.

I'm not fond of uncomfortable situations while afield, and have been involved in a few before, but it turns out that in the end, they were completely harmless... but what if they didn't turn out that way? What if some strangers decided to attempt bad things on my partner and I?

I'm a bird hunter and trap shooter, and am comfortable around shotguns as well as rifles and handguns. However, I've never really owned a handgun with the intent of using it as a concealed carry.

Anyways, to the point here... I'm thinking about the S&W model 327PD revolver? It looks like a great option for a CC at 24.3oz., especially for backpacking/wilderness hiking where one does not want to be weighed down with a heavy sidearm. I like the feel of a .357, and am confident that it would stop an attacker if the unthinkable happened.

If anyone has some experience with this gun, please share your thoughts. I like the idea of a .357, and probably wouldn't go bigger unless there was a really sound reason to do so. Also, I think that I'm pretty set on a revolver due to it's ability to operate reliably in less than perfect conditions. However, I'm definitely open to other ideas. As stated, this would be my first gun with CC in mind, but would not be a daily CC... only in the deep woods/wilderness. Also note that the purpose for the arm would be to stop a human attacker, not an animal.

Thanks for the input!
Click to expand...

Have you considered a Glock 26 or S&W M&P 9mm compact? Both are polymer and extremely light. Moreover, the Glocks are proven and as reliable as required for a CC. I don't think one needs 14+ rounds for your purposes. But 5 rounds may be on the short side, especially if the gun is pretty inaccurate as are the airweights.
 
BigAl

BigAl

Expedition Leader
I have a hammerless S&W airlite .38. I am very happy with how small and light it is. Point and click operation. It does not have any downside for my use, IMO.
I can put 5 holes in a 9" paper plate from 3 feet away. Anything farther than that I'd be running away anyhow.:)

edit: when asking opinions on concealed carry, ask what the person has on them right now??? If it's hard to carry, you'll justify not carrying.
 
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K

kjp1969

Explorer
I like the midsize Glocks. A model 23 with the hi-cap magazine carries 14 rounds of .40 and is still quite compact. Even with the CA 10 round magazines, 11 rounds beats 5 or 6 any day.
 
Ridgewalker

Ridgewalker

Adventurer
S&W 60 3" with sights

This is my preference in the woods. It handles heavy .357s for black bears (last resort); has dispatched deer and elk (in their final moments); light .38 solids for blue grouse; and works outstanding with shot while bird hunting for rattlers (a shotgun at barrel length away isn't very good).

I just went through the NRA Basic Pistol Course with a group and I was the only wheel gun person. They were impressed with the fact that I could out shoot all:xxrotflma . Of course I have been doing it since oh can I remember? 1962?

Anyway I have semi autos and wheels. I started out with a wheel gun and still prefer it. I do not want to be in a fire fight with anything less than a mil-spec'd rifle though (AR, AK, FAL, etc.) But a side arm shown tends to reduce the threat.

Have fun making your decision?:ylsmoke: And practice, practice, practice!
 
WhereTheHellIsJames?

WhereTheHellIsJames?

Explorer
Probably 10 years ago or more I had a Glock 19. It fit in my hand very well, but I didn't like the safety.

As far as the revolvers go, I like the option of a hammer, which is the reason that I was considering the larger framed S&W (the small framed airlite's don't have this option).

Ideally I'd like to have the features of the large frame .357 (hammer & capacity) with the size of the small frame, and a 3" barrel. I'm pretty set on a revolver rather than a semiauto too- I think that in rough conditions, there is just less chance of failure going that route.

A very lightweight gun is important to me too. I know that they are a bit rougher on the body than a heavier gun, but remember that I'll be carrying it over long distances through challenging terrain, and that like all backpackers, I'm pretty picky about weight (I even cut off the ends of my toothbrushes)... every little bit counts, and a few grams or ounces all over the place end up being a few pounds in the big picture, which ends up being another mile or two of hiking for the day. Obsessive, yes, but also effective.

Probably the best thing for me to do is put some a box or two through both the model 327 and model 442 at a range, and see what is most comfortable for me.
 
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