Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[plainjaneFJC]

this better? even has a skewp!

Saw one of those front bumper/grille combos on the road the other day and thought "what the hell". Lol

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think I'm a conservative driver, I don't speed and in fact I usually go a little under unless I'm really in a hurry. My Taco will go faster than 75 but just like its always been it's happier at 65 or 70 tops. The mileage improves, just feels less like I'm pushing it.

But...

The new stuff is just a little safer, and a little more comfortable.

this is nonsense. There's no comparison, the 2nd generation is safer and 3rd more so. I can't see how that can be even an argument. I loved that old 1991 but God love 'em the cabs were barely adequate to keep you dry. The 1st gen was probably better than the older junk but the cabs are not substantial either.

The frame on the 2nd gens has been analyzed on other forums, with respect to the body mount chop anyway. There's many more designed in features to absorb and redirect energy in major crashes now more than ever.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gener...120-j150-platform-better-body-mount-chop.html

Head-on collision, T-bone or roll-over? Yeah, zero doubt in my mind which would win from a passenger safety aspect. The 79-95 trucks had better frames and I wish ours got Hilux frames still but I imagine a major part of the reason for a Tacoma is safety. Being rigid the old Hilux frame might take more punishment but in a wreck the energy that doesn't bend the frame or blow out the engine subframe is going into you.

And comfort. You're delusional. The 2nd gen isn't a Caddy but it's miles ahead of the older trucks, even 1st gens.

 

[phsycle]

The safety and comfort isn't enough for me, as I do hurl myself up and down mountain sides for fun.

The new stuff is just a little safer, and a little more comfortable. Why I keep on fixing my old crap. Also think that is one of the problems with how horrible people drive anymore (besides their phones)..."ahhh if we get in a wreck the car will save us." I am one of the very few people out there that actually drives the speed limit. There is a construction zone on part of my commute for a couple miles, it goes form 65 to 55...found I have to put my hazards on to keep from people running up my ass. Oh and the dirty looks I get for obeying the law.

Almost to the point where I am going to put one of these on the tailgate...and that's for driving the speed limit too. Not like I am going 10-15 slower than posted.

Yup, just personal preference/comfort level. Too many crazies, teens posting on Instagram where I live. I've got all the new electrical nannies--radar cruise, crash alert, lane departure. I've got everything turned off, except front collision alert (hope I never have to "test" it out). Although on Long road trips, the radar cruise is pretty nice.

I've got kids, so I put a little more importance to this safety stuff. If I were by myself, I wouldn't care about it as much. I don't think that Ram 2500 Tradesman comes with any of that stuff. Which is fine by me, as I'll be an empty nester by the time I consider one.

 

[Clutch]

this is nonsense. There's no comparison, the 2nd generation is safer. I can't see how that can be even an argument. I loved that old 1991 but God love 'em the cabs were barely adequate to keep you dry.

The frame on the 2nd gens has been analyzed on other forums, with respect to the body mount chop anyway. There's many more designed in features to absorb and redirect energy in major crashes now more than ever.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gener...120-j150-platform-better-body-mount-chop.html

Head-on collision, T-bone or roll-over? Yeah, zero doubt in my mind which would win.

And comfort. You're delusional. The 2nd gen isn't a Caddy but it's miles ahead of the older trucks, even 1st gens.

Think you're missing the point...I ride motorcycles. The added safety of the new stuff isn't much of a concern. Why I am like "big deal".

Sure you're a little safer, but don't think they aren't that much of an improvement, as they say there are no guarantees in life.

Saw one of those front bumper/grille combos on the road the other day and thought "what the hell". Lol

I don't get it...

 

[Clutch]

Yup, just personal preference/comfort level. Too many crazies, teens posting on Instagram where I live. I've got all the new electrical nannies--radar cruise, crash alert, lane departure. I've got everything turned off, except front collision alert (hope I never have to "test" it out). Although on Long road trips, the radar cruise is pretty nice.

I've got kids, so I put a little more importance to this safety stuff. If I were by myself, I wouldn't care about it as much. I don't think that Ram 2500 Tradesman comes with any of that stuff. Which is fine by me, as I'll be an empty nester by the time I consider one.

This whole safety bubble we have built around ourselves, is making people have no personal accountability.

Not single, and not that I drive like this on pavement. Offroad yes (and exposed on a bike) though...

...but you get the point.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Think you're missing the point...I ride motorcycles. The added safety of the new stuff isn't much of a concern. Why I am like "big deal".

Sure you're a little safer, but as they say there are no guarantees in life. Why I think they aren't that much of an improvement.

Just because you or I might choose to think something is unnecessary doesn't change the reality of what actually is. I enjoy doing unsafe, uncomfortable things as much as the next guy but there's zero doubt in my mind that my truck now is safer and more comfortable than ones I've owned before it. Whether that is what I really wanted or was even remotely a reason for it buying it is aside the point.

 

[XJLI]

Why run out and blow $35K+ if it really doesn't do anything better than what I already have?

Yup. I'm just driving back and forth to work 90% of the time.

 

[phsycle]

Think you're missing the point...I ride motorcycles. The added safety of the new stuff isn't much of a concern. Why I am like "big deal".

Sure you're a little safer, but as they say there are no guarantees in life. Why I think they aren't that much of an improvement.




I don't get it...

I stopped riding motos on the road for that reason. Too many close calls!! Ugh. I miss it.

This whole safety bubble we have built around ourselves, is making people have no personal accountability.

Not single, and not that I drive like this on pavement. Offroad yes though...

...but you get the point.

Well, yes and no. It's been proven safety features have made the roads safer (substantially). I certainly appreciate that my wife's van has blind-side detection, cross-traffic alert, parking sensors, etc. And a robust frame to ensure minimal injuries to the occupants. My wife doesn't text or even answer calls while driving. When used in conjunction with an undistracted driver, safety factor goes up exponentially. But it does get people "lazy" and more prone to distraction. Double-edged sword. Net affect, though, is still positive.

I'm 100% behind advancements in safety. And 100% behind undistracted driving. I actually can't wait until fully automated driving is the standard. Roads will be safer.

 

[Clutch]

Just because you or I might choose to think something is unnecessary doesn't change the reality of what actually is. I enjoy doing unsafe, uncomfortable things as much as the next guy but there's zero doubt in my mind that my truck now is safer and more comfortable than ones I've owned before it. Whether that is what I really wanted or was even remotely a reason for it buying it is aside the point.

Buddy of mine had a Camry swerve into his lane on a 2 lane road, and had a headon. He was in a F150...they were busted up pretty bad, as it shoved the engine into the cab, it killed the two people in the Camry. A Camry is a pretty dang safe car too. It is all relative, imo.

Though still think the age old "What has the most lugnuts usually wins" applies. New Tacoma isn't all that much safer...if we get hit by something bigger. So not much of a concern.

 

[Clutch]

Yup. I'm just driving back and forth to work 90% of the time.

Same here.

I stopped riding motos on the road for that reason. Too many close calls!! Ugh. I miss it.



Well, yes and no. It's been proven safety features have made the roads safer (substantially). I certainly appreciate that my wife's van has blind-side detection, cross-traffic alert, parking sensors, etc. And a robust frame to ensure minimal injuries to the occupants. My wife doesn't text or even answer calls while driving. When used in conjunction with an undistracted driver, safety factor goes up exponentially. But it does get people "lazy" and more prone to distraction. Double-edged sword. Net affect, though, is still positive.

I'm 100% behind advancements in safety. And 100% behind undistracted driving. I actually can't wait until fully automated driving is the standard. Roads will be safer.

I loose count of how many people are on their phones.

Hate driving on the interstate for that very reason...people doing 80...looking at their hands. You would think I would be more concerned about a safer vehicle then.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I can't see being so indifferent about yourself and living. I'm not afraid of death but doesn't mean I'm looking forward to it. For the most part driving to me is a necessary evil and, man, if I look down on myself as I leave my body and realize I was killed coming home from the weekly expedition to buy toilet paper and milk by some moron texting it's going to be sad. Lights off being in an avalanche or breaking my neck on a MTB or something else, yeah, the only end to life is fitting death. But for the mundane ******** between the goal posts I want to hedge the odds in my favor. Do we need all the nanny systems and self driving cars? Nope, that goes beyond assisting me. But I'm OK with designed in survivability. Airbags + stick shift are complementary to me, air bags are generally going to increase your chances and rowing gears myself helps me be focused.

 

[phsycle]

...Though still think the age old "What has the most lugnuts usually wins" applies. New Tacoma isn't all that much safer...if we get hit by something bigger. So not much of a concern.

I don't know man. As illustrated below, quite a bit of advancement in crash safety. You can even see how much this has improved for the Tacoma as you look at the different years on that IIHS link (especially the small/moderate overlap tests). But you are right in (implying) that this only mitigates risk, not guarantees safety. You put a 5-star crash test rated 2019 Honda Civic against a 2005 F250....not a lot of doubt who'd win. Hmm, maybe I DO need that cow catcher freight train front bumper afterall...

 

[DaveInDenver]

Buddy of mine had a Camry swerve into his lane on a 2 lane road, and had a headon. He was in a F150...they were busted up pretty bad, as it shoved the engine into the cab, it killed the two people in the Camry. A Camry is a pretty dang safe car too. It is all relative, imo.

Though still think the age old "What has the most lugnuts usually wins" applies. New Tacoma isn't all that much safer...if we get hit by something bigger. So not much of a concern.

That's the thing with statistics and probability, anecdotal evidence doesn't always fit. There's always a chance you're gonna be the one outlier. You can't use an emotional argument to decide something rationally. And all of this isn't a zero sum game. For you to survive an accident doesn't mean the other person has to die. So I'm not going to go around driving an M2 Bradley but I'm still going to try to tilt individual chances in my favor. Can I guarantee a good outcome for me? Absolutely not, that I can guarantee.

 

[phsycle]

Yup. I'm just driving back and forth to work 90% of the time.

I am, as well. But isn't traffic hour when 95% of the accidents happen?

 

[XJLI]

I am, as well. But isn't traffic hour when 95% of the accidents happen?

Is my truck safer than a '65 C10 or 88 Tacoma? Definitely is. But is my truck that much worse than a 2018 Silverado? $35k worth it of worse? Probably not.