Colorado ZR2 and Tacoma TRD Pro compared

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
Neither of these trucks HAS to compete with an old dinged up YJ or trucks that regularly tow 5000#+. But I want to see them compared to a Ranger or a Hilux.

The back country roads around me are rough enough that flying down them in a ZR2 or Raptor can be bliss. Could call them poseur trucks, but they are nicer for that than the stock models. $40k ain't bad. The Raptors price tag is though.

Can get a Diesel CC, LB, DRW for that. Even if I only tow 5,000#, I'd rather have a fullsize. 7,000+ I'd want a 3/4 or 1ton.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Yea, the Toyota fanboy-ism is silly to me. Chevy built the truck everyone wanted, who cares what marque is on the front? The Colorado is great.


Actually it is what is behind the badge that counts. Long term reliability is still an unknown with the Chevy. What are those trucks going to be like at 100K, 200K, 300K?

Speaking from experience, Toyotas will go darn near trouble free until 200K. Current one, didn't really start nickel and diming me until 250K. Now at 350K still going strong, just little things that need attention.

Where-as the diesel Colorados are already being fussy. Upcruiser's is already throwing codes with the DEF regen process.
 

b9ev

Adventurer
What year and model is your Toyota? 350k miles is impressive for anything.

Actually it is what is behind the badge that counts. Long term reliability is still an unknown with the Chevy. What are those trucks going to be like at 100K, 200K, 300K?

Speaking from experience, Toyotas will go darn near trouble free until 200K. Current one, didn't really start nickel and diming me until 250K. Now at 350K still going strong, just little things that need attention.

Where-as the diesel Colorados are already being fussy. Upcruiser's is already throwing codes with the DEF regen process.
 

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
Actually it is what is behind the badge that counts. Long term reliability is still an unknown with the Chevy. What are those trucks going to be like at 100K, 200K, 300K?

Speaking from experience, Toyotas will go darn near trouble free until 200K. Current one, didn't really start nickel and diming me until 250K. Now at 350K still going strong, just little things that need attention.

Where-as the diesel Colorados are already being fussy. Upcruiser's is already throwing codes with the DEF regen process.

Yeah two times. First was just due to my wife's 2 mile work commute and not understanding initially that just idling doesn't allow it to regen. Second time was actually a sensor that measures voltage across the diesel particulate filter failing. They replaced that with the updated version that is on the current trucks now. I guess that was something specific to 2016's. Since then, outside of a few trips it's been my wife's daily 2 mile commuter and we just make sure to drive it more than 10 miles at least once every couple of weeks which isn't very hard to do. No issues since and we probably are putting it through its biggest challenge as far as useage god week to week. My only question, possible concern is if you were doing a multiple day trek offroad at slow speeds and if there could be a potential issue with it not being able to get the heat it needs. Haven't heard of a case of it yet but I do question that scenario as I believe it is still just the dealer that can force a regen once it goes into limp mode.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I would expect that if the sales are strong enough with the Duramax Colorado you will likely see an LS trim in the future as well as an extra cab. The fact that they are offering a Duramax ZR2 extra cab is promising. A work truck trim might be a bit much. It's a big risk they were taking offering a diesel to begin with so they likely wanted to minimize the risk and only offer it limited trims initially to feel out the demand. This truck is seeing a pretty good swell of popularity despite a rather large notion of GM being inferior to Toyota. That said, in my experience and opinion Toyota quality isn't what it once was and the difference is now nil or even by initial impression, the quality advantage dips towards this gen Colorado. Regarding the frame, I have been in no other pickup that has so little bed deflection. So I will say this, that frame may be 40% this or that, blah blah blah, but that chassis is tight as a drum and exhibits imperceptible flex, even offroad. The foreign market Hiluxes I have driven weren't anywhere near that tight in torsional flex though admittedly I haven't driven the newest gen Hilux.

Towing, payload..... get the LT or Z71, 1,500 pounds payload and 7,600 towing is solid. I have come to the conclusion that the majority of folks in this community pay little heed to payload these days anyway. The amount of junk I see festooned upon Wranglers and caper laden Tacoma's that are WAY over the GVWR show many folks don't care though I am pretty careful to abide by that stuff myself. That said a crew cab Dmax Colorado is going to exceed a crew cab Eco Diesel 1500 Ram and Tacoma. So for the US market it's pretty solid.

Price.... We got our new Dmax LT trimmed Colorado from the dealer at 10k off sticker. 5k of that was GM friends and family discount but the rest of that was incentives. Without the GM employee discount you can actually Wheel and deal so I expect a normal person could have gotten more than 5k off sticker on ours. In addition we got zero percent financing for 5 years. That deal was better than a lower trim crew cab Tacoma, let alone any of the 3 TRD models non of which the local Toyota dealership was willing to budge in retail price. Maybe with the success of the Colorado now Toyota will be willing to budge a bit but by the number of new Tacos I see on the road, Toyota still coasts along on its reputation. Not saying the Tacoma isn't good, it's a GREAT truck but the gulf between the two in regards to build quality is little to null.

ZR2 package... I think any offroad specific package on any vehicle comes with inherit compromises. If you want an offroad toy with bug capability and a warranty it's a no brainier. You couldn't buy a similarly equipped Colorado and add all this stuff without exceeding the ZR2's asking price. I think it's most compelling case for the ZR2 is simply it's ability to blend outstanding technical performance with outstanding handling onroad. As an overlanding platform I don't think you necessarily want or need that much technical ability as payload becomes more important but hey, having options are nice.

Our LT trimmed Dmax with the G80 rear auto locker works pretty damn good in low traction circumstances and with the traction control is less intrusive in its engagement offroad than say our ATrac equipped FJ Cruiser we had. The Diesel engine mitigated the need for hill decent control in my view so we didn't feel compelled for the Z71. The air dam comes off the front, so that's not a big deal and we did that immediately. We have seen 31-33.5 on the highway with this thing, and that was with less than 3,000 miles on the odometer and still on winter blend. Purely driving around town, stop and go we see about 22. So for a crew cab, long bed truck that we got for less than our friends paid for there 4 cylinder Subaru Outback, and yet exceeds their mpg's they get, and yet we can still do this stuff without it breaking a sweat.......



I would say these things can do a pretty useful amount of towing and work for their size. In the manner of the Hilux and other foreign market trucks we seem to be so unrealistically craving. And I can tell you that it is a much nicer place to spend time in than some of those trucks from personal experience. Maybe I am just starting to get soft in my 40's... and I am a guy who loves, the rugged, old, simple stuff, so I am just a big walking talking contradiction anyway... haha. I guess my point boils down to I think GM did a decent job covering most bases with the current lineup offerings, no, not everyone can have anything they want.... my wife and I would prefer a manual but for towing the auto is better and more fuel efficient anyway so it's a good trade off. I am off the mind personally that a Dmax Colorado is the most useful all around vehicle sold in NA or the price, for the combination of reasons above, and a great oerland platform.


Agreed. Btw My DD is a 2.5 Subaru Outback Limited. A big reason I find the Colorado/Canyon interesting is that it can do what my DD does and my occasional driver 05 Sequoia not counting 8 butts in seats. It can out haul the Sequoia regarding gear, it easily out paces the Subaru regarding road trip mileage.

The payload thing is funny given the threads about the discovery of over Weight loading by many on this site.

I'm a Toyota truck fan have had three since 1997. 4Runner which was a complete basket case. A very nice J80 Cruiser loved it, and the 05 Sequoia which is ok but nothing special vs say a Tahoe or Suburban.

I never liked the seating position in the 4Runner or taco. Which seems to get worse as you move to the newer versions of the taco.

The Colorado / Canyon was much much needed. Today I could happily replace two vehicles with a SLT Canyon Diesel and have better everything except seating for 8. Which I'm no bus driver and wouldn't miss one bit.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
As for Toyota Dealers vs taco pricing or virtually any Toyota model in my area. Lets just say 3rd party dealers treat them as if they are lined with 24k gold. The stupid non haggle rediculous pricing will slowly shift as people discover better value from other brands. The Highlander now goes for above msrp here. But the new GMC Acadia crushes the Highlander on nearly every level. I already see several new Acadia's in our area no doubt cross shopped against the now stupidly over priced Highlander. The Taco will be no different vs the new and quite nicely done Colorado/Canyon.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
What year and model is your Toyota? 350k miles is impressive for anything.

'99

Original engine, trans, transfer case. Clutch lasted 250K. One of the the reasons I adamant about manual trans...I tend to get more mileage out manny's than autos. Autos tend to last me around 100K, and I drive like a grampa. Our Trooper which has a GM trans in it, has been fussy, only has 108K on it. Waiting for it to fail any day now.

What has been failing on it has been axle bearings and seals, and a few other things which I consider minor. Which being an original AZ truck, it has seen some extreme temps over long periods of time. The rubber bits are going to fail.

Yeah two times. First was just due to my wife's 2 mile work commute and not understanding initially that just idling doesn't allow it to regen. Second time was actually a sensor that measures voltage across the diesel particulate filter failing. They replaced that with the updated version that is on the current trucks now. I guess that was something specific to 2016's. Since then, outside of a few trips it's been my wife's daily 2 mile commuter and we just make sure to drive it more than 10 miles at least once every couple of weeks which isn't very hard to do. No issues since and we probably are putting it through its biggest challenge as far as useage god week to week. My only question, possible concern is if you were doing a multiple day trek offroad at slow speeds and if there could be a potential issue with it not being able to get the heat it needs. Haven't heard of a case of it yet but I do question that scenario as I believe it is still just the dealer that can force a regen once it goes into limp mode.


I need to see those trucks with 100-200K on them before I can give a true opinion on their long term reliability. Pretty much know what a Toyota can do, GM not so much.

Just seeing the DEF system being fussy that early on, is steering me away. Not sure I could own one out of warranty, a Toyota yeah no problem. Wouldn't even think twice about buying a used one with 100K on it.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I would expect that if the sales are strong enough with the Duramax Colorado you will likely see an LS trim in the future as well as an extra cab. The fact that they are offering a Duramax ZR2 extra cab is promising. A work truck trim might be a bit much. It's a big risk they were taking offering a diesel to begin with so they likely wanted to minimize the risk and only offer it limited trims initially to feel out the demand. This truck is seeing a pretty good swell of popularity despite a rather large notion of GM being inferior to Toyota. That said, in my experience and opinion Toyota quality isn't what it once was and the difference is now nil or even by initial impression, the quality advantage dips towards this gen Colorado. Regarding the frame, I have been in no other pickup that has so little bed deflection. So I will say this, that frame may be 40% this or that, blah blah blah, but that chassis is tight as a drum and exhibits imperceptible flex, even offroad. The foreign market Hiluxes I have driven weren't anywhere near that tight in torsional flex though admittedly I haven't driven the newest gen Hilux.

Towing, payload..... get the LT or Z71, 1,500 pounds payload and 7,600 towing is solid. I have come to the conclusion that the majority of folks in this community pay little heed to payload these days anyway. The amount of junk I see festooned upon Wranglers and caper laden Tacoma's that are WAY over the GVWR show many folks don't care though I am pretty careful to abide by that stuff myself. That said a crew cab Dmax Colorado is going to exceed a crew cab Eco Diesel 1500 Ram and Tacoma. So for the US market it's pretty solid.

Price.... We got our new Dmax LT trimmed Colorado from the dealer at 10k off sticker. 5k of that was GM friends and family discount but the rest of that was incentives. Without the GM employee discount you can actually Wheel and deal so I expect a normal person could have gotten more than 5k off sticker on ours. In addition we got zero percent financing for 5 years. That deal was better than a lower trim crew cab Tacoma, let alone any of the 3 TRD models non of which the local Toyota dealership was willing to budge in retail price. Maybe with the success of the Colorado now Toyota will be willing to budge a bit but by the number of new Tacos I see on the road, Toyota still coasts along on its reputation. Not saying the Tacoma isn't good, it's a GREAT truck but the gulf between the two in regards to build quality is little to null.

ZR2 package... I think any offroad specific package on any vehicle comes with inherit compromises. If you want an offroad toy with bug capability and a warranty it's a no brainier. You couldn't buy a similarly equipped Colorado and add all this stuff without exceeding the ZR2's asking price. I think it's most compelling case for the ZR2 is simply it's ability to blend outstanding technical performance with outstanding handling onroad. As an overlanding platform I don't think you necessarily want or need that much technical ability as payload becomes more important but hey, having options are nice.

Our LT trimmed Dmax with the G80 rear auto locker works pretty damn good in low traction circumstances and with the traction control is less intrusive in its engagement offroad than say our ATrac equipped FJ Cruiser we had. The Diesel engine mitigated the need for hill decent control in my view so we didn't feel compelled for the Z71. The air dam comes off the front, so that's not a big deal and we did that immediately. We have seen 31-33.5 on the highway with this thing, and that was with less than 3,000 miles on the odometer and still on winter blend. Purely driving around town, stop and go we see about 22. So for a crew cab, long bed truck that we got for less than our friends paid for there 4 cylinder Subaru Outback, and yet exceeds their mpg's they get, and yet we can still do this stuff without it breaking a sweat.......



I would say these things can do a pretty useful amount of towing and work for their size. In the manner of the Hilux and other foreign market trucks we seem to be so unrealistically craving. And I can tell you that it is a much nicer place to spend time in than some of those trucks from personal experience. Maybe I am just starting to get soft in my 40's... and I am a guy who loves, the rugged, old, simple stuff, so I am just a big walking talking contradiction anyway... haha. I guess my point boils down to I think GM did a decent job covering most bases with the current lineup offerings, no, not everyone can have anything they want.... my wife and I would prefer a manual but for towing the auto is better and more fuel efficient anyway so it's a good trade off. I am off the mind personally that a Dmax Colorado is the most useful all around vehicle sold in NA or the price, for the combination of reasons above, and a great oerland platform.

'99

Original engine, trans, transfer case. Clutch lasted 250K. One of the the reasons I adamant about manual trans...I tend to get more mileage out manny's than autos. Autos tend to last me around 100K, and I drive like a grampa. Our Trooper which has a GM trans in it, has been fussy, only has 108K on it. Waiting for it to fail any day now.

What has been failing on it has been axle bearings and seals, and a few other things which I consider minor. Which being an original AZ truck, it has seen some extreme temps over long periods of time. The rubber bits are going to fail.




I need to see those trucks with 100-200K on them before I can give a true opinion on their long term reliability. Pretty much know what a Toyota can do, GM not so much.

Just seeing the DEF system being fussy that early on, is steering me away. Not sure I could own one out of warranty, a Toyota yeah no problem. Wouldn't even think twice about buying a used one with 100K on it.


I bet there are more GM products over 200-250k on the road than toyotas. Same goes for Ford. Hell my dads old 99 exploder has 340,000 on it. How?? No idea all he has done is change fluids. It even towed a ski boat for a few yrs. Would I drive it across the country today? No... But it starts every time and does local trips without drama. No timing belt services it runs a chain the original one.

Nearly every contractor I know has GM and Ford trucks pushing 300,000 and see it as pretty typical stuff.

The Toyota thing was a thing in the 80's and early 90's but by the late 90's pretty much all the major truck brands had engines and transmissions that easily did 200-300k when not abused and not maintained.

I like used toyota trucks because I've managed to sell them yrs later for nearly what I bought them for. But my 05 Sequoia will be the end of that run. And my last Toyota. Just too many well done trucks out there today that don't come with a huge Toyota tax.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
I bet there are more GM products over 200-250k on the road than toyotas. Same goes for Ford. Hell my dads old 99 exploder has 340,000 on it. How?? No idea all he has done is change fluids. It even towed a ski boat for a few yrs. Would I drive it across the country today? No... But it starts every time and does local trips without drama. No timing belt services it runs a chain the original one.

Nearly every contractor I know has GM and Ford trucks pushing 300,000 and see it as pretty typical stuff.

The Toyota thing was a thing in the 80's and early 90's but by the late 90's pretty much all the major truck brands had engines and transmissions that easily did 200-300k when not abused and not maintained.

I like used toyota trucks because I've managed to sell them yrs later for nearly what I bought them for. But my 05 Sequoia will be the end of that run. And my last Toyota. Just too many well done trucks out there today that don't come with a huge Toyota tax.

I am sure there are. Father-in-Law has 250K on his Silverado, and is a die hard Cheby guy. Just gonna stick with what I know...been running them for 26 years now, That and all of my mom's side has owned Toyotas longer than me, all have had great luck, and nothing but problems when they strayed to another brand. (I call those the VW experimental years, which were awful, trannies going tits up at 30K, yeow!)....so why change now? We can read how well this or that does all day long on the internet...it will never beat what I have experienced personally.

Am I Toyota fanboi? Probably... Too afraid to try something else with my own money. Toyota checks more boxes for me than the other brands. If Ford doesn't screw up the Ranger, it might be a possibility...but not holding my breath.
 

b9ev

Adventurer
Hands down a manual will outlast an automatic. My 01 Tacoma had it's transmission go at about 130k. My family has had multiple Toyota trucks that go 200k with the original clutch. That said similar experience with both Ford and Chevy.

I am not a fan of the new Tacoma v6 engine and only time will tell if it will last like the 3.4 and 4.0. The 3.0 had heads that would warp. Rubber definitely ages quicker in the desert. Been replacing some seals and other rubber bits on both of my trucks.

Back on topic, if you view emissions maintenance as something you know will need to happen there shouldn't be a problem.

'99

Original engine, trans, transfer case. Clutch lasted 250K. One of the the reasons I adamant about manual trans...I tend to get more mileage out manny's than autos. Autos tend to last me around 100K, and I drive like a grampa. Our Trooper which has a GM trans in it, has been fussy, only has 108K on it. Waiting for it to fail any day now.

What has been failing on it has been axle bearings and seals, and a few other things which I consider minor. Which being an original AZ truck, it has seen some extreme temps over long periods of time. The rubber bits are going to fail.




I need to see those trucks with 100-200K on them before I can give a true opinion on their long term reliability. Pretty much know what a Toyota can do, GM not so much.

Just seeing the DEF system being fussy that early on, is steering me away. Not sure I could own one out of warranty, a Toyota yeah no problem. Wouldn't even think twice about buying a used one with 100K on it.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Hands down a manual will outlast an automatic. My 01 Tacoma had it's transmission go at about 130k. My family has had multiple Toyota trucks that go 200k with the original clutch. That said similar experience with both Ford and Chevy.

I am not a fan of the new Tacoma v6 engine and only time will tell if it will last like the 3.4 and 4.0. The 3.0 had heads that would warp. Rubber definitely ages quicker in the desert. Been replacing some seals and other rubber bits on both of my trucks.

They have been using a version of that engine for a couple years now, yeah? I haven't paid too close attention. That said, I want the 2.7...I can live with that underpowered turd. More concerned with longevity than anything.

Back on topic, if you view emissions maintenance as something you know will need to happen there shouldn't be a problem.

Repair cost on the DEF system scares me enough to make me pee my pants a little...as I am cheap SOB and plan on running my vehicles up to and beyond 300K. Honestly I was ready to off the Toyota at 200K, but it keeps going...and thought of sending it off to pasture again at 300K...but it keeps going.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I would expect that if the sales are strong enough with the Duramax Colorado you will likely see an LS trim in the future as well as an extra cab. The fact that they are offering a Duramax ZR2 extra cab is promising. A work truck trim might be a bit much. It's a big risk they were taking offering a diesel to begin with so they likely wanted to minimize the risk and only offer it limited trims initially to feel out the demand. This truck is seeing a pretty good swell of popularity despite a rather large notion of GM being inferior to Toyota. That said, in my experience and opinion Toyota quality isn't what it once was and the difference is now nil or even by initial impression, the quality advantage dips towards this gen Colorado. Regarding the frame, I have been in no other pickup that has so little bed deflection. So I will say this, that frame may be 40% this or that, blah blah blah, but that chassis is tight as a drum and exhibits imperceptible flex, even offroad. The foreign market Hiluxes I have driven weren't anywhere near that tight in torsional flex though admittedly I haven't driven the newest gen Hilux.

Towing, payload..... get the LT or Z71, 1,500 pounds payload and 7,600 towing is solid. I have come to the conclusion that the majority of folks in this community pay little heed to payload these days anyway. The amount of junk I see festooned upon Wranglers and caper laden Tacoma's that are WAY over the GVWR show many folks don't care though I am pretty careful to abide by that stuff myself. That said a crew cab Dmax Colorado is going to exceed a crew cab Eco Diesel 1500 Ram and Tacoma. So for the US market it's pretty solid.

Price.... We got our new Dmax LT trimmed Colorado from the dealer at 10k off sticker. 5k of that was GM friends and family discount but the rest of that was incentives. Without the GM employee discount you can actually Wheel and deal so I expect a normal person could have gotten more than 5k off sticker on ours. In addition we got zero percent financing for 5 years. That deal was better than a lower trim crew cab Tacoma, let alone any of the 3 TRD models non of which the local Toyota dealership was willing to budge in retail price. Maybe with the success of the Colorado now Toyota will be willing to budge a bit but by the number of new Tacos I see on the road, Toyota still coasts along on its reputation. Not saying the Tacoma isn't good, it's a GREAT truck but the gulf between the two in regards to build quality is little to null.

ZR2 package... I think any offroad specific package on any vehicle comes with inherit compromises. If you want an offroad toy with bug capability and a warranty it's a no brainier. You couldn't buy a similarly equipped Colorado and add all this stuff without exceeding the ZR2's asking price. I think it's most compelling case for the ZR2 is simply it's ability to blend outstanding technical performance with outstanding handling onroad. As an overlanding platform I don't think you necessarily want or need that much technical ability as payload becomes more important but hey, having options are nice.

Our LT trimmed Dmax with the G80 rear auto locker works pretty damn good in low traction circumstances and with the traction control is less intrusive in its engagement offroad than say our ATrac equipped FJ Cruiser we had. The Diesel engine mitigated the need for hill decent control in my view so we didn't feel compelled for the Z71. The air dam comes off the front, so that's not a big deal and we did that immediately. We have seen 31-33.5 on the highway with this thing, and that was with less than 3,000 miles on the odometer and still on winter blend. Purely driving around town, stop and go we see about 22. So for a crew cab, long bed truck that we got for less than our friends paid for there 4 cylinder Subaru Outback, and yet exceeds their mpg's they get, and yet we can still do this stuff without it breaking a sweat.......



I would say these things can do a pretty useful amount of towing and work for their size. In the manner of the Hilux and other foreign market trucks we seem to be so unrealistically craving. And I can tell you that it is a much nicer place to spend time in than some of those trucks from personal experience. Maybe I am just starting to get soft in my 40's... and I am a guy who loves, the rugged, old, simple stuff, so I am just a big walking talking contradiction anyway... haha. I guess my point boils down to I think GM did a decent job covering most bases with the current lineup offerings, no, not everyone can have anything they want.... my wife and I would prefer a manual but for towing the auto is better and more fuel efficient anyway so it's a good trade off. I am off the mind personally that a Dmax Colorado is the most useful all around vehicle sold in NA or the price, for the combination of reasons above, and a great oerland platform.

They have been using a version of that engine for a couple years now, yeah? I haven't paid too close attention. That said, I want the 2.7...I can live with that underpowered turd. More concerned with longevity than anything.



Repair cost on the DEF system scares me enough to make me pee my pants a little...as I am cheap SOB and plan on running my vehicles up to and beyond 300K. Honestly I was ready to off the Toyota at 200K, but it keeps going...and thought of sending it off to pasture again at 300K...but it keeps going.
When I take Cabs most are Toyotas these days I always ask about mileage. The trend has been new ICE engine at around 320-350 due to bearings failing. That's what killed the neighbors 01 v6 Camry recently also 360k on it.

With any basic na modern engine bearing failure in the 300-350 range seems pretty typical as the final failure. No doubt that's what will kill my dads old exploder 4L
 

Clutch

<---Pass
When I take Cabs most are Toyotas these days I always ask about mileage. The trend has been new ICE engine at around 320-350 due to bearings failing. That's what killed the neighbors 01 v6 Camry recently also 360k on it.

With any basic na modern engine bearing failure in the 300-350 range seems pretty typical as the final failure. No doubt that's what will kill my dads old exploder 4L

That is a damn good service life, imo.

Going to put in a low mile JDM engine in mine when it gives up the ghost. Next year, I'll get the new truck, and she'll still use my old beater for her 3/4 of mile commute. Almost sold it a couple times out of boredom...now I want see how long we can keep it going.

Did give the Colorado a hard look, it is a nice truck... just misses the mark on a couple things for me. That and the unknown long term reliability.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
hah. I know what it is called but the point is that the pay for jobs hasn't inflated at the same rate. This is anecdotal but I believe it to be true across most jobs. My mom retired from teaching in 1999 at a salary of 40k/yr. Same school district, same level of education, same level of experience teachers are making $45k/yr today.

Cool bro? It's still inflation. Why do you think everyone freaks when gas was .35 cents in the 50s or whatever and the price today. But inflation it's about equal
 
What kind of ridiculousness is that?

Trucks are supposedly built for working and pulling......and GM would rather make a cool looking huge *** plastic bumper instead of rating the truck to work harder?

Aesthetics have completely ruined trucks

It wasn't done for aesthetics it was done for function. He stated something to the affect that the lower valance on the stock trucks push up a lot of air which was partly channeled through the radiator. In trimming that for the ZR2 bumper they were concerned about the air flow reduction. They set the ZR2 bumper as designed, not just to "look cool" but because you cant get over an obstacle if you cant get the tire on it. So the off road need to expose the tire took precedence for the ZR2. ;)
 

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