24HOURSOFNEVADA
Expedition Leader
ntsqd said:
Very well stated.
Diesel Conversion kit thoughts....
- Thread starter ujoint
- Start date
Very well stated.
dieseltoyz
Observer
only problem I've found with the 2.8 international is getting them. Not exactly falling out of the sky these days...
What about sourcing a bunch of say 12H-Ts overseas and having a full rebuild done before shippment to the US. Then it's a straight bolt in to FJ60s with no adapters needed. You could build your kit from Toyota parts and ship that here as well. My guess is you could get your kit ready to roll for $10k. You could stay all Toyota, very straightforward bolt up, and the parts can't be much harder to get then they would be for this International motor. Other Toyota motors might work for this as well like the 1-HZs or the HDTs.
It does seem hard to believe that a 2.8L displacement diesel could push a Cruiser around with authority, the 4.2L gasoline 2F is bad enough.
In any case there will be a need to work with the wiring nightmare whether it a Toyota Diesel or this 2.8L International motor. With a Toyota diesel, the mechanical side of the swap could be done in a day or two, but the electrical and all the hookups would be a pain in either case.
It does seem hard to believe that a 2.8L displacement diesel could push a Cruiser around with authority, the 4.2L gasoline 2F is bad enough.
In any case there will be a need to work with the wiring nightmare whether it a Toyota Diesel or this 2.8L International motor. With a Toyota diesel, the mechanical side of the swap could be done in a day or two, but the electrical and all the hookups would be a pain in either case.
dieseltoyz
Observer
the 2.8 internationals will man-handle an fj60 with power to spare (driven one). You can buy a half cut from spector off road and be into it less than $9k shipped. I dont know about bolt on, but it can be made to work with some light fabrication. The FJ60 12HT's are all mechanical and wiring it to run is easily achievable with basic electrical knowledge. The later 1HZ's are computer controlled and far more of an advanced install. They use timing gears and are real torquey engines. We had a shipment of the 2.8 internationals a few years ago where we went in on a container load of them and they were $4500 each. Nowadays, you're lucky to find one less than $10k. Another issue for the 2.8's is finding parts for servicing the thing. They are somewhat interchangeable with the 300tdi's but 300tdi parts are not exactly falling out of the skies these days either. They also carry quite the cost premium. For the money, it's best to buy a half cut and do the conversion. This way, it stays Toyota, parts are readily available and affordable, and it carries the reliability of Toyota. Here's a build we're doing on an fj40. If it seems we're working in reverse, we are. The customer has decided to blast the body and line-x the tub (black) and line-x the outside of the body with blue color matched line'x. Enjoy
http://www.dieseltoyz.com/Gerard.html
http://www.dieseltoyz.com/Gerard.html
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cumminscruiser
Adventurer
DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
Hey all, if you're asking about the TLC 3.0L Int'l turbo diesel in my FJ60, I'm waiting to get a pricing package from them. We finished the swap in December after tweaking a few things and are still testing out a few changes. The cost of mine is not a good measure of the kit because we had to do a lot to try a few new things plus I went a little crazy adding some OME and new TLC brakes and other stuff . . .
I'm 200% happy with the engine, its phenomenal power and torque - actually, it's amazing, and exactly what I wanted - fully modern, powerful, efficient (averaging 25-26 mpg with very mixed use) and with the new transmission and suspension all tucked into a fully retro rig (crank windows? metal dash? rubber floor mats? very 80s), it's my dream vehicle. Next step is to get the paint done and I'm set. I left the cosmetics til last.
We took it to Baja over the holidays - it ran fantastic. We filled it up once at the border, went halfway down the peninsula on back roads, messed around quite a bit, then drove back, also over back roads, and used 1 tank of fuel (about 40 gallons total, with the extended range tank). Ran like a charm, loves those Baja roads.
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I don't know anything about that International engine. I did a Toyota 3B swap into an FJ60 a while back. Good performance for a 4 cyl diesel. Beat most 2Fs I had driven. I had to sell it though to pay for some big home repairs. Now I'm looking to repower my FJ62.
I like the idea of 12H-Ts or 1HZs or 1HDs. 2H or 12H-T should be a very simple kit since it is largely plug and play in the 60-series LC, provided it is 12V. If you can source low mileage or quality rebuilt H-series diesels for a reasonable price, I would be interested!
I like the idea of 12H-Ts or 1HZs or 1HDs. 2H or 12H-T should be a very simple kit since it is largely plug and play in the 60-series LC, provided it is 12V. If you can source low mileage or quality rebuilt H-series diesels for a reasonable price, I would be interested!
24HOURSOFNEVADA
Expedition Leader
He's got the 5.9. not the 4bt
I know that the 60 series has a mystique and a dedicated fan base. But let me present the bean counter's viewpoint about this conversion.
First, find a decent 60 from Arizona, a 25-30 year old vehicle, maybe 150,000 miles. Buy it for $2500. Now buy the diesel engine kit for $16K. Pay someone $3K to install. Total $21,500, plus the expenses associated with refurbishing a 25 year old vehicle (tires, brakes, transmission service, birfield rebuild, seat covers, maybe re-paint). Total will be close to $25K, maybe more.
Down at your friendly neighborhood Jeep dealer, you can purchase a brand new Grand Cherokee Laredo with Mercedes 3.0L V6 diesel (375 lb-ft of torque, EPA 25 mpg highway) for $31,200 (less if you already own a Jeep).
This price was effective Jan 28th, it may have changed. You may be able to negotiate a better deal. There are lots of dealers with 2008 diesel Grand Cherokees for sale. Check www.autotrader.com to find a dealer in your area.
For $6,200 more than the 60 series, you're buying a new vehicle with a warranty and dealer support. You're buying a vehicle that can be 100% financed, at a very low interest rate. In the current financial climate, I think financing the diesel conversion of the 60 would be a tough sell to your banker. And if you want to build the Grand Cherokee for more capable off-road performance, Jeep has tremendous support from aftermarket suppliers.
One more point: The Grand Cherokee meets 2008 emissions rules. The International diesel used in the 60 conversion is a modern engine, but it won't run as clean unless you pay for a particulate trap and catalytic converter. The Jeep will have no problem getting a license plate. The 60 series may have problems in states that are fussy about emissions.
I know that for a few people, having a classic 60 series with diesel engine is a dream, and the pride of ownership will make it worth the expense, and the hassle of finding parts and someone who can repair the unusual engine.
For most other people, the diesel Jeep would be a better choice.
Chip Haven
First, find a decent 60 from Arizona, a 25-30 year old vehicle, maybe 150,000 miles. Buy it for $2500. Now buy the diesel engine kit for $16K. Pay someone $3K to install. Total $21,500, plus the expenses associated with refurbishing a 25 year old vehicle (tires, brakes, transmission service, birfield rebuild, seat covers, maybe re-paint). Total will be close to $25K, maybe more.
Down at your friendly neighborhood Jeep dealer, you can purchase a brand new Grand Cherokee Laredo with Mercedes 3.0L V6 diesel (375 lb-ft of torque, EPA 25 mpg highway) for $31,200 (less if you already own a Jeep).
This price was effective Jan 28th, it may have changed. You may be able to negotiate a better deal. There are lots of dealers with 2008 diesel Grand Cherokees for sale. Check www.autotrader.com to find a dealer in your area.
For $6,200 more than the 60 series, you're buying a new vehicle with a warranty and dealer support. You're buying a vehicle that can be 100% financed, at a very low interest rate. In the current financial climate, I think financing the diesel conversion of the 60 would be a tough sell to your banker. And if you want to build the Grand Cherokee for more capable off-road performance, Jeep has tremendous support from aftermarket suppliers.
One more point: The Grand Cherokee meets 2008 emissions rules. The International diesel used in the 60 conversion is a modern engine, but it won't run as clean unless you pay for a particulate trap and catalytic converter. The Jeep will have no problem getting a license plate. The 60 series may have problems in states that are fussy about emissions.
I know that for a few people, having a classic 60 series with diesel engine is a dream, and the pride of ownership will make it worth the expense, and the hassle of finding parts and someone who can repair the unusual engine.
For most other people, the diesel Jeep would be a better choice.
Chip Haven
cumminscruiser
Adventurer
Diesel conversion
But its still not a Landcruiser. No matter what you do, how you slice it, or even what the banker thinks its still not a Landcruiser. What does a banker know anyway?
But its still not a Landcruiser. No matter what you do, how you slice it, or even what the banker thinks its still not a Landcruiser. What does a banker know anyway?
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Last I knew, I can't buy one in this state.
My own engine swap research has narrowed down to a 5.7L TPI or a 6.5 Td (assuming that the 6.5's ever came in a 1/2 ton, which I've yet to confirm). Having been down that road for a customer, post '95 candidates are too much hassle and not worth my consideration. If this state did not have the issue with HD engines in LD chassis' I'd be seriously looking at the Izusu 3.9L.
My own engine swap research has narrowed down to a 5.7L TPI or a 6.5 Td (assuming that the 6.5's ever came in a 1/2 ton, which I've yet to confirm). Having been down that road for a customer, post '95 candidates are too much hassle and not worth my consideration. If this state did not have the issue with HD engines in LD chassis' I'd be seriously looking at the Izusu 3.9L.
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DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
Haven,
That's a great post, and exactly what lead me to do my diesel conversion - great research!
I needed / wanted a new vehicle and started looking around (to replace a trustworthy 2000 Tacoma with 200,000 miles - and plus, it was so white, and so, well, white).
I looked at so many options new but just couldn't get excited about anything. Didn't want another Tacoma. Wanted to go back to 4-door.
I settled on diesel because I wanted the option to go bio-fuel (not waste, though) and I drive them a lot in Africa, and really like them.
Like you say, emissions and efficiency were really important to me, so I didn't want an older diesel.
That took me back to Land Cruisers. I just love them. Had a 55 that was so cool.
So, for the price you mention I got the swap I wanted with a new totally efficient and clean engine and transmission. My price was more, because I added some stuff that would have been a lot cheaper had I done it myself but didn't have the time.
One thing I had to keep in mind with any engine swap is that they are not cheap because of all the labor involved. Even if you do it yourself, time is money for many of us - especially self-employed like me. I tend to be engaged on behalf of clients 6-7 days a week. Time off = no money.
Anyway, excellent post. The only vehicle that I might have considered new, that wasn't really out yet when I was deciding, is the Rubicon Jeep - off the floor, it's a fantastic vehicle. But still, those Land Cruisers . . .
That's a great post, and exactly what lead me to do my diesel conversion - great research!
I needed / wanted a new vehicle and started looking around (to replace a trustworthy 2000 Tacoma with 200,000 miles - and plus, it was so white, and so, well, white).
I looked at so many options new but just couldn't get excited about anything. Didn't want another Tacoma. Wanted to go back to 4-door.
I settled on diesel because I wanted the option to go bio-fuel (not waste, though) and I drive them a lot in Africa, and really like them.
Like you say, emissions and efficiency were really important to me, so I didn't want an older diesel.
That took me back to Land Cruisers. I just love them. Had a 55 that was so cool.
So, for the price you mention I got the swap I wanted with a new totally efficient and clean engine and transmission. My price was more, because I added some stuff that would have been a lot cheaper had I done it myself but didn't have the time.
One thing I had to keep in mind with any engine swap is that they are not cheap because of all the labor involved. Even if you do it yourself, time is money for many of us - especially self-employed like me. I tend to be engaged on behalf of clients 6-7 days a week. Time off = no money.
Anyway, excellent post. The only vehicle that I might have considered new, that wasn't really out yet when I was deciding, is the Rubicon Jeep - off the floor, it's a fantastic vehicle. But still, those Land Cruisers . . .