Diesel for overlanding- are you happy with the choice?

[F350joe]

Uh... yes it does.

Statewide average, diesel is 18.5 cents higher

And you clearly made the claim statewide

Actually I was replying to the poster who said it was a dollar more per gallon. Where I live, in CA, that is not the case as my screen shot shows. Point being that cost of fuel is barely a factor for some. OP said that it is significantly more expensive where he lives so I’ll give you that. $6.50 per tank isn’t going to sway anyone one way or the other.

 

[luthj]

For many years the no emissions mechanical diesels were superior in both reliability, fuel economy, and repairability. Especially for remote locations severe conditions. However with modern emissions and the amount that manufacturing has improved, it makes very little sense to have a diesel for the Overland /remote travel group. Let's be honest here this entire hobby started out with people who needed this type of equipment to go remote locations or to do hard things. Nowadays it is become the hobby of the wealthy and upper middle class. You may not think of yourself as wealthy, but anyone who can afford to spend $60,000 on a pickup truck or Unimog is wealthy in my book.

Considering the original parameters of Overland / adventure travel, gasoline power plants of today generally meet most of the requirements better than current diesel power plants. These Parameters include, lightweight, ease of operation, availability of repair parts and personnel, noise vibration/harshness, tolerance of adverse running conditions, cost.

In multiple applications and as demonstrated here diesel power plants are not cost efficient for the vast majority of applications. This Doesn't even include the difficulty of a remote repair. Common rail fuel injection systems are inherently more sensitive to fuel contamination, and more difficult to repair than the fuel injection system is used on gasoline power plants.

The primary exception is for individuals who need to operate rigs or tow heavy weight, often in excess of 15,000 pounds. I am willing to bet that these applications are a tiny percentage.

Diesel Engines are generally, louder more difficult to start in cold weather, and suffer from gelling problems with cold temperatures.

I say all this as someone who owns and operates a common rail diesel engine for Overland type travel. If I could do it all again and I could find a vehicle that meets my needs and had a gasoline powerplant I would do so.

I have been happy with my diesel in regards to it's performance, fuel economy, and repairability. However I am the mechanic. It is extremely difficult to find someone in North America who is skilled and properly equipped to perform fuel system repair on small common rail diesels ( small being under 10 L ).

If you find the psychological appeal of diesel to be irresistible, by all means buy one. But let's not pretend that it is some amazing option, that is superior in every aspect. There is already enough confirmation bias on the Internet.

 

[CrazyDrei]

You guys are silly arguing over the least expensive gas and diesel prices. Diesel is more expensive and it will add up. If you are getting a diesel as a daily driver for short commutes you will be paying more for fuel and repairs from the constant starting and stopping. If you are getting a diesel for long hauls you will not be searching out local neighborhood gas stations where price of gas and diesel are less than 20 cents apart but will be stopping at interstate accessible gas stations where the difference is about 40-50 cents nation wide.

I just did 3 trips across the country in 3 different vehicles: 87 octane getting 8.5mpg. diesel getting 11mpg and 91/93 octane getting 34mpg. I spent exactly the same on the 3,100 mile trip in gas on my 87 octane trip and diesel trip. 87 octane was a 8,000lb truck pulling a 9,800lb trailer, around 18,000 combined weight, diesel rig was around 24,000 lbs. And I averaged 65-70mph on both trips. Overall I was spending $2.50 per gal on 87 octane and $3.10 per gal on diesel.

I also drove non stop between 400-500 mile fill ups which most normal people can not do.

 

[CrazyDrei]

For many years the no emissions mechanical diesels were superior in both reliability, fuel economy, and repairability. Especially for remote locations severe conditions. However with modern emissions and the amount that manufacturing has improved, it makes very little sense to have a diesel for the Overland /remote travel group. Let's be honest here this entire hobby started out with people who needed this type of equipment to go remote locations or to do hard things. Nowadays it is become the hobby of the wealthy and upper middle class. You may not think of yourself as wealthy, but anyone who can afford to spend $60,000 on a pickup truck or Unimog is wealthy in my book.

Considering the original parameters of Overland / adventure travel, gasoline power plants of today generally meet most of the requirements better than current diesel power plants. These Parameters include, lightweight, ease of operation, availability of repair parts and personnel, noise vibration/harshness, tolerance of adverse running conditions, cost.

In multiple applications and as demonstrated here diesel power plants are not cost efficient for the vast majority of applications. This Doesn't even include the difficulty of a remote repair. Common rail fuel injection systems are inherently more sensitive to fuel contamination, and more difficult to repair than the fuel injection system is used on gasoline power plants.

The primary exception is for individuals who need to operate rigs or tow heavy weight, often in excess of 15,000 pounds. I am willing to bet that these applications are a tiny percentage.

Diesel Engines are generally, louder more difficult to start in cold weather, and suffer from gelling problems with cold temperatures.

I say all this as someone who owns and operates a common rail diesel engine for Overland type travel. If I could do it all again and I could find a vehicle that meets my needs and had a gasoline powerplant I would do so.

I have been happy with my diesel in regards to it's performance, fuel economy, and repairability. However I am the mechanic. It is extremely difficult to find someone in North America who is skilled and properly equipped to perform fuel system repair on small common rail diesels ( small being under 10 L ).

If you find the psychological appeal of diesel to be irresistible, by all means buy one. But let's not pretend that it is some amazing option, that is superior in every aspect. There is already enough confirmation bias on the Internet.

Best and most down to earth explanation of advantages of gas vs diesel overland vehicles for your average weekend warrior non mechanic. The same goes for automatic vs manual transmissions. There is a sexiness in driving a diesel manual on an overland adventure because only a small percentage of the population has the financial means to get that vehicle and mechanical knowledge to keep it running.

Thank you, very well said.

 

[F350joe]

A few bucks more for a diesel tank but near twice the mpg/range when loaded up. That means something to a lot of people who adventure travel. Agree with the other poster that it doesn’t pencil out with modern diesels but a warranty and smiles per gallon do have value.

 

[Adventurous]

For many years the no emissions mechanical diesels were superior in both reliability, fuel economy, and repairability. Especially for remote locations severe conditions. However with modern emissions and the amount that manufacturing has improved, it makes very little sense to have a diesel for the Overland /remote travel group. Let's be honest here this entire hobby started out with people who needed this type of equipment to go remote locations or to do hard things. Nowadays it is become the hobby of the wealthy and upper middle class. You may not think of yourself as wealthy, but anyone who can afford to spend $60,000 on a pickup truck or Unimog is wealthy in my book.

Considering the original parameters of Overland / adventure travel, gasoline power plants of today generally meet most of the requirements better than current diesel power plants. These Parameters include, lightweight, ease of operation, availability of repair parts and personnel, noise vibration/harshness, tolerance of adverse running conditions, cost.

In multiple applications and as demonstrated here diesel power plants are not cost efficient for the vast majority of applications. This Doesn't even include the difficulty of a remote repair. Common rail fuel injection systems are inherently more sensitive to fuel contamination, and more difficult to repair than the fuel injection system is used on gasoline power plants.

The primary exception is for individuals who need to operate rigs or tow heavy weight, often in excess of 15,000 pounds. I am willing to bet that these applications are a tiny percentage.

Diesel Engines are generally, louder more difficult to start in cold weather, and suffer from gelling problems with cold temperatures.

I say all this as someone who owns and operates a common rail diesel engine for Overland type travel. If I could do it all again and I could find a vehicle that meets my needs and had a gasoline powerplant I would do so.

I have been happy with my diesel in regards to it's performance, fuel economy, and repairability. However I am the mechanic. It is extremely difficult to find someone in North America who is skilled and properly equipped to perform fuel system repair on small common rail diesels ( small being under 10 L ).

If you find the psychological appeal of diesel to be irresistible, by all means buy one. But let's not pretend that it is some amazing option, that is superior in every aspect. There is already enough confirmation bias on the Internet.

Hard to argue with this. It has very real pluses and minuses.

If I were buying a vehicle solely for overland travel, it would be a gas for sure. If I were buying an HD truck again, it might very well be a gas engine too. Of course, for most of us, we use our trucks for other activities far more than just overlanding, so it's a bit more of a nuanced decision.

In my case, I can afford the additional costs of a diesel, however debatably higher they may be. Money may not buy happiness, but it sure goes a long way towards maintaining my truck.

 

[Buliwyf]

I wish I had local ''overlanding'' than could consume most of my 38 gallon gas tank.

Getting lost in Coshocton County while every dirt road in or out floods, blocking our path, still only eats 5-7 gallons.

 

[IdaSHO]

A few bucks more for a diesel tank but near twice the mpg/range when loaded up. That means something to a lot of people who adventure travel.

It would if it was true.

But its not.

Typical MPG difference between modern gasser and modern diesel is less than 4-5 MPG

Simple example.... 2011 Super duty

6.2 Gasser 10-12MPG average
6.7 Diesel 14-16MPG average

So more like a 25% difference.

Far cry from your 50%


FYI, the Ram 6.4 gasser vs 6.7 Cummins comparison is nearly the same.

 

[IdaSHO]

I wish I had local ''overlanding'' than could consume most of my 38 gallon gas tank.

Getting lost in Coshocton County while every dirt road in or out floods, blocking our path, still only eats 5-7 gallons.

Sound like you need a real trip ?

Although, I wish our trips consumed just 7 gallons!
Most are 500+ miles, and many are near 2000 miles round trip.

 

[F350joe]

It would if it was true.

But its not.

Typical MPG difference between modern gasser and modern diesel is less than 4-5 MPG

Simple example.... 2011 Super duty

6.2 Gasser 10-12MPG average
6.7 Diesel 14-16MPG average

So more like a 25% difference.

Far cry from your 50%


FYI, the Ram 6.4 gasser vs 6.7 Cummins comparison is nearly the same.

Not when loaded up with gear or towing or when doing 80 through Utah.

 

[tacollie]

My limited experience with a 6.7 F350 is loaded doing 80 is less than 12mpg. 6.2 is 10. The power is the big difference. The 6.7 moves the 11000lbs with ease.

 

[IdaSHO]

Yep

Once upon a time diesels got much better MPG than gassers.

Simply not the case anymore

 

[luthj]

Electronic Controls, high compression ratios ,variable valve timing, and direct injection have brought most gasoline engines raw efficiency up by at least 5% since the mid 80s. Compression Ratios in diesels have not been changed to huge amount partially due to emissions requirements and partially because they are at the limits of materials 20 years ago.

 

[IdaSHO]

FYI for those that havn't seen it this is a great article, and IMO is spot on.

https://www.government-fleet.com/15...bad-investment-only-fleet-managers-know-about

 

[F350joe]

FYI for those that havn't seen it this is a great article, and IMO is spot on.

https://www.government-fleet.com/15...bad-investment-only-fleet-managers-know-about

That is a good article but I think it makes a good case as an overland/personal truck. The cost of ownership is really not all that much more considering the extra torque and resale value of a non-fleet recreation diesel.