Diesel News: POST HERE

[haven]

Pickuptrucks.com has a report that illustrates why manufacturers are
turning away from diesel engines for future vehicles.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/0...rate-ethanol-engine-in-heavy-duty-pickup.html

Ricardo, a British automotive engineering firm, is ready to show a
3.2L V6 that produces 400 hp and 570 lb-ft of torque on regular
unleaded gasoline, and a whopping 660 lb-ft of torque when run on
a blend of 15% gas and 85% ethanol. The best fuel mileage comes
from a 50-50 mix of gas and ethanol.

These results come from turbocharging, electronic management of
injection and cam timing, and a redesigned cylinder head.

It's cheaper to build the Ricardo engine, which started out as a 3.0L
block from a Chevy Equinox, and cheaper to control emissions
from a gas engine than from a diesel. And companies are still worried
about how the diesel fuel price spike in 2008 killed sales of diesel
vehicles.

Diesel will certainly continue to be the fuel of choice in developing
countries for the foreseeable future because those countries lack the
infrastructure to distribute ethanol. Brasil is the exception, due to 30
years of effort on their part to become energy self-sufficient by converting
sugar cane into ethanol.

 

[haven]

Audi is finding success with its diesel offerings. The 2.0L turbo diesel 4 cylinder made up 56 percent of A3 sales, and the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel (with urea injection) is under the hood of 40 percent of Q7 SUV. Maybe there is hope for small displacement diesels, after all!

 

[haven]

Florida Power and Light has a couple of pre-production Ford F250 diesels in its fleet. FPL reports that at 9000 miles they changed the oil, and found the DEF tank still was 25% full. So the range of the F250's DEF tank is about 12,000 miles.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/how-well-does-the-2011-ford-fseries-super-duty-perform.html

That means you won't have to worry about running out of DEF between regular service intervals. Just top up the tank when the vehicle is in for its oil change.

 

[cletaco]

Mercedes Diesels

I was recently at my Mercedes Benz dealer having a bit of maintenance done to my E320 CDI. I always ask when MB is bringing in their 4-cylinder diesels, and this time my service advisor said he just returned from Germany and confirmed that MB will be bringing in 4-cylinder diesel C-Class and GLK-Class vehicles in 2011. This is the news I've been waiting for, and I certainly hope it actually happens. I'd like to replace my wife's C-Class with a new diesel one (she'd hate driving the GLK, so that is not in the cards).

 

[charlieaarons]

I'm waiting for an AWD diesel passenger car (preferably with manual trans) in the US. None imported yet.

Charlie

 

[Redline]

x2

I'm waiting for an AWD diesel passenger car (preferably with manual trans) in the US. None imported yet.

Charlie

 

[haven]

Diesel Power Magazine has a useful article in their diesel tech expert series about the Ford 6.0L Powerstroke turbo diesel. It's titled, "Every 6.0L Problem Solved." Interesting reading! Looks like the 2007 model has the fewest expensive trouble areas.

http://dieselpower.automotive.com/112060/0907dp-6-0l-ford-power-stroke-engine/index.html

 

[haven]

Chrysler and Cummins have a long history together. Chrysler encouraged Cummins to develop smaller diesels for use in Dodge SUVs and trucks, maybe even in the Wrangler. Cummins responded with new 4.2L V6 and a 5.0L V8 diesel models. Read about the new engines here
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/dodge/0612dp_new_cummins_v6_and_v8/index.html

Then Chrysler's finances fell apart. In bankruptcy proceedings, Chrysler's contract with Cummins for the light duty diesels was canceled.

Today, Chrysler announced that it's working with Cummins again. At the 2010 Work Truck Expo, Chrysler's vice president of product planning reported that talks are under way with Cummins. No contract has been signed, but there's at least cause for some hope that we'll find Cummins' new products under the hood of Dodge vehicles in the future.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/chryler-and-cummins-restart-lightduty-diesel-discussions.html

 

[haven]

Heavy duty Dodge Ram owners love the Cummins diesel. In the past,
as many as 80% of the Ram HD models had the Cummins under the hood,
and only 20% chose gas motors. But times are changing.

Joe Veltri, Chrysler vice president of product planning, said the engine mix
has shifted to 70/30 today and that it's likely to shift as far as 60/40
in the future.

“Every emission cycle is going to cause the price of the diesel trucks to
go up,” Veltri said. “That's why you're seeing that shift. Diesel engines
have gotten very expensive -- $8,000 and going north.”

The 2010 Mopar 6.4L Hemi is designed for cars, and doesn't have the
low rpm torque that truck owners need. So Chrysler has to find a big
block gas engine to put in its trucks, or risk losing more sales to Ford
and GM.

 

[haven]

At the NY Auto Show, Mazda announced that they will offer a diesel powered passenger car in USA ifor the 2012 model year. Powered by the Sky-D diesel engine (2.2L?), the new model (probably a redesigned 6 series sedan) will have an EPA rating of more than 40 mpg highway. Mazda expects its diesel engine to meet EPA emissions without urea injection.

Looks like VW will have some competition!

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/663...ky-gas-diesel-engines-headed-to-us/index.html

Update: VW announced that their new midsize sedan coming in 2011 (replacing the Passat) will offer a diesel option.

 

[haven]

Here's another example of the type of gas engine that manufacturers are considering as an alternative to diesel.

At the NY Auto Show, Hyundai announced a turbocharged 2-liter direct-injection 4-cylinder that produces 274 horsepower and 269 foot-pounds of torque on 87 octane regular unleaded gas. When used in a midsize car like the Sonata, Hyundai claims the engine will get 34 miles per gallon on the highway. The turbo engine will be available in 2011 models.

The 2010 2-liter VW turbodiesel produces 140-hp and 236 ft-lbs. It's rated at 42 mpg in highway driving in the smaller, lighter Jetta. I'm guessing, but I think the VW diesel will be rated to produce maybe 38 mpg in the replacement for the Passat coming in 2011.

So you might get 12% better fuel mileage using the diesel. Diesel fuel costs about 5% more than unleaded regular, so the actual savings per tank using diesel is small. That makes diesel a hard sell, even considering government subsidies.

 

[dzzz]

It seems in real world a diesel excels in highway miles, where for around town the extra money is better spent on a gas hybrid.
Regardless of epa ratings, diesels give better mileage offroad due to reaching peak performance at low rpm, as well as better idle fuel economy.
I'm amazed at how much fuel my V8 gasser uses off pavement.

 

[cruiser guy]

I've always found that the EPA ratings for gas engines is usually pretty hopeful and if you achieve it then you're doing pretty good. Diesel on the other hand tend to be under-rated. I find it easy to exceed the EPA ratings with a diesel.

 

[Viggen]

Here's another example of the type of gas engine that manufacturers are considering as an alternative to diesel.

At the NY Auto Show, Hyundai announced a turbocharged 2-liter direct-injection 4-cylinder that produces 274 horsepower and 269 foot-pounds of torque on 87 octane regular unleaded gas. When used in a midsize car like the Sonata, Hyundai claims the engine will get 34 miles per gallon on the highway. The turbo engine will be available in 2011 models.

The 2010 2-liter VW turbodiesel produces 140-hp and 236 ft-lbs. It's rated at 42 mpg in highway driving in the smaller, lighter Jetta. I'm guessing, but I think the VW diesel will be rated to produce maybe 38 mpg in the replacement for the Passat coming in 2011.

So you might get 12% better fuel mileage using the diesel. Diesel fuel costs about 5% more than unleaded regular, so the actual savings per tank using diesel is small. That makes diesel a hard sell, even considering government subsidies.

When I bought my first MKV VW Jetta, I debated going TDi instead of gas. The MPG is what sucked me in. I sat down, did the math over the amount of time I would have the car and compared the diesel costs with regular gas and then added that to the cost of the cars and looked at the monthly payments. As it came out, I saved money losing 15 or so mpg in a gas motor than a diesel. I dont think that a diesel will ever be an attractive thing in a passenger car due to the difference in fuel prices and additional cost of the motor itself. A diesel motor would only have a chance of being popular in real SUVs (not cute utes) and midsize trucks which have the potential of being used for far more miles than a car and which would carry a larger payload.

 

[cletaco]

When I bought my first MKV VW Jetta, I debated going TDi instead of gas. The MPG is what sucked me in. I sat down, did the math over the amount of time I would have the car and compared the diesel costs with regular gas and then added that to the cost of the cars and looked at the monthly payments. As it came out, I saved money losing 15 or so mpg in a gas motor than a diesel. I dont think that a diesel will ever be an attractive thing in a passenger car due to the difference in fuel prices and additional cost of the motor itself. A diesel motor would only have a chance of being popular in real SUVs (not cute utes) and midsize trucks which have the potential of being used for far more miles than a car and which would carry a larger payload.

I admit I've never done the math, and I wonder how many people do? What is "attractive" to people usually is not an economic calculation, or at least not exclusively. My DD is a Mercedes Benz E-Class diesel, a large and heavy car, supremely comfortable, and very fast. We just returned from a trip to Hilton Head and I got 39.0 average MPG at 70 average MPH. Yes, 39MPG. I've seen 41 on this car. I get 30% better mileage than the gasser E-Class, which itself makes diesel attractive to me. My car also holds its value much better than the gassers, and the engine will go forever. At the end of the day, I don't think one can really calculate these things, but when you "add up" all the facts and intangibles, diesel will be the right choice for many passenger cars.