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[lblampman]

When I bought my first MKV VW Jetta, I debated going TDi instead of gas. The MPG is what sucked me in. I sat down, did the math over the amount of time I would have the car and compared the diesel costs with regular gas and then added that to the cost of the cars and looked at the monthly payments. As it came out, I saved money losing 15 or so mpg in a gas motor than a diesel. I dont think that a diesel will ever be an attractive thing in a passenger car due to the difference in fuel prices and additional cost of the motor itself. A diesel motor would only have a chance of being popular in real SUVs (not cute utes) and midsize trucks which have the potential of being used for far more miles than a car and which would carry a larger payload.

I don't agree at all...but that's coming from a very happy Volkswagen TDI owner. We consistently get over 45 mpg locally and 50 mpg on the freeway. What I like most about it however is it's driveability; it puts the gasser to shame with it's torque and useful power band. When the TDI Club did a survey they found the #1 reason folks bought the diesel was perfomance, mileage came second.

It's been a very easy car to live with. We now have over 100,000 miles on it and it runs as new. I replaced the timing belt at 100K (and water pump since I was in there anyway) and that's been the extent of anything other than routine oil changes (at 15,000 miles each) and normal maintenance. It's far outdone any Prius in terms of performance and cost to maintain. And it's simple technology; I don't have to take it to the dealer where I have to deal with two power systems (gas and electric), or with batteries (sooner or later they're going to have to be replaced).

There's something awfully nice about knowing a round trip to Seattle (200 miles) costs me 4 gallons of fuel (about $12 in my area). In my Audi gasser that same trip would be 9 gallons of fuel (about $30 since the Audi uses premium fuel).

I know it's not the right choice for everyone but I think that there are lots of buyers that so (and will) happily purchase diesel vehicles and will do so even more into the future as the true cost of hybrid ownership, manufacturing, and recycling becomes known.

Les

 

[haven]

Audi announced that the 2011 Q7 SUV will get an 8 speed transmission.
The V6 turbo diesel engine (225 hp, 406 lb-ft) remains unchanged from
2010.

The 2010 Q7 TDI is rated by the EPA to return 20 mpg in combined driving.
The new transmission and tweaks in tuning will help the 2011 version
to get about 25 mpg combined. Not bad for a heavy SUV with three rows of
seats.

 

[haven]

new diesel trucks in old mexico

Forum member "casadt" provides a link to an article about using Mexico's diesel fuel in newer USA trucks that require ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD). The article says that damage to the emissions system of the new trucks is minimal unless the truck runs for many thousands of miles on the old-style diesel. The article also claims that any damage to the emissions equipment is reversible when you start using ULSD in USA.

Here's the link: http://writeslice.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76

Links to reference material from labs that tested the effects of old-style diesel on new trucks are included.

While diesel fuel in Mexico may not pose a problem for short-term visitors, the lack of engine oil that meets manufacturers' specifications is. The new diesels require an oil (labeled API CJ4 or better) that helps reduce the formation of ash in the diesel particulate filter. So remember to take a supply of engine oil with you when traveling south of the border in a new diesel truck.

The article concludes by saying, in effect, "Don't blame me if you take your new diesel truck to Mexico and experience problems." It's worth remembering that your engine warranty could be void if the vehicle was run on old-style fuel with elevated sulfur content, or if you use an engine oil that does not meet the manufacturer's specs.

 

[Pskhaat]

Audi announced that the 2011 Q7 SUV will get an 8 speed transmission.

Sounds cool, I guess all those gears are needed to keep performance on a small spread of the diesel power band?

 

[haven]

The 2010 Q7 TDI has a 6 speed trans. I think the 8 speed adds additional overdrive gears to improve fuel mileage.

 

[haven]

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/1...pdated-touran-minivan-51-1-mpg-with-bluemoti/

VW introduced the 2011 Touran minivan (think Mazda 5 size van).
With the 2.0L turbodiesel and Bluemotion efficiency mods including
automatically turning the engine off when the vehicle is stopped,
the 2011 Touran is rated at 49 mpg in the Euro combined
driving cycle.

VW has no plan to introduce the Touran in USA. I don't think the
Routan minivan (a rebadged Chrysler minivan) is selling well, and
minivans in general are not as popular as they were a few years ago.

 

[haven]

To meet tightening emissions regulations in USA, Mercedes has equipped its
2010 Sprinters with Bluetec urea injection and selective catalytic reduction
system. This lets the engine compression ratio be increased a little, and
the tuning is modified. The result: 34 more hp and 40 more lb.-ft. of torque.

The Sprinter is no longer available through Dodge dealers. Some Freightliner
dealers continue to sell the Sprinter (Freightliner is owned by Mercedes.) And
a small number of Mercedes dealers have been selected to sell the trucks, too.
The Sprinter can be purchased at 68 MBZ dealers today, and at as many as
160 dealers in total later this year.

Surprise: The switch from Dodge back to Mercedes has resulted in lower prices.
A 2010 chassis cab Sprinter starts at $34,270, down from $36,190. Cargo vans
start at $35,995, compared with $38,425 for '09. And passenger models start at
$39,820, down from $42,150.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/sprinter_blazing_trails_100416/

 

[haven]

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/04/is-gdiesel-the-diesel-fuel-of-the-future-.html

A company named Advanced Refining Concepts has developed a process that adds methane gas to ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel. The company calls its product "GDiesel." GDiesel can be used in any vehicle designed to use conventional diesel fuel, no modifications required.

GDiesel has a number of advantages over conventional fuel. In tests with heavy construction equipment and a fleet of delivery trucks, the new fuel reduced particulate emissions, got better mileage, and seemed to keep the engine oil cleaner, increasing the miles between oil changes. Drivers reported increased power, too, but this has not been tested.

In the refining process, the methane gas attaches itself to the molecules of diesel, so the end product is a liquid that has about 10% greater volume than the original diesel feedstock. This makes the production of GDiesel economically viable.

Propane injection is a proven way to increase diesel performance. But it requires an additional set of injectors, and a separate fuel storage and delivery system. GDiesel is simply pumped into the fuel tank.

ARC just finished building a refining plant near Reno that produces 100,000 gallons of GDiesel daily. The company is looking for partners who produce methane, such as metropolitan sanitary landfills.

 

[Viggen]

I don't agree at all...but that's coming from a very happy Volkswagen TDI owner. We consistently get over 45 mpg locally and 50 mpg on the freeway. What I like most about it however is it's driveability; it puts the gasser to shame with it's torque and useful power band. When the TDI Club did a survey they found the #1 reason folks bought the diesel was perfomance, mileage came second.

It's been a very easy car to live with. We now have over 100,000 miles on it and it runs as new. I replaced the timing belt at 100K (and water pump since I was in there anyway) and that's been the extent of anything other than routine oil changes (at 15,000 miles each) and normal maintenance. It's far outdone any Prius in terms of performance and cost to maintain. And it's simple technology; I don't have to take it to the dealer where I have to deal with two power systems (gas and electric), or with batteries (sooner or later they're going to have to be replaced).

There's something awfully nice about knowing a round trip to Seattle (200 miles) costs me 4 gallons of fuel (about $12 in my area). In my Audi gasser that same trip would be 9 gallons of fuel (about $30 since the Audi uses premium fuel).

I know it's not the right choice for everyone but I think that there are lots of buyers that so (and will) happily purchase diesel vehicles and will do so even more into the future as the true cost of hybrid ownership, manufacturing, and recycling becomes known.

Les

I understand that you might not agree but compare it to the 2.0T in real life mpg figures and youll understand. My 6 speed GLI would regularly get 34 mpg highway cruising at 75 and often times with the A/C on. So, the premium of the motor package and the upcharge or "regional adjustment" added to the sticker, made a TDi a losing proposition over the life of the loan, 66 months. The math did not lie. Diesel is at least $0.50 more a gallon than gas and 10 mpg is not that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I agree that the performance of a TDi is pretty nice but it is no where near that of a 2.0T.

As long as America is a throw away society and vehicles are kept for a shorter period than the initial loan (which it will since many dealers will pay off owed amounts without blinking and not roll in the debt) and diesel stays at the more expensive rate than a gallon of unleaded, it will never be an ordinarily attractive option. Its sad but true. The number of people who will keep a diesel powered car long enough to have the motor pay for it self, either through mileage or maintenance, the latter of which is becoming more and more negligible with longer lasting gas motors, is becoming lower and lower. If I could get my hands on a good diesel midsize quad cab or SUV, Id plop down my hard earned dollars for them.

VW is doing a good job by finally bringing a wider range of TDi powered vehicles to market. Main problem is that they are priced much higher

 

[dragogt]

For those interested..

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...ad.php?t=97631

Originally Posted by SpartanDieselTech
No DPF, No DOC, No SCR, No Urea, and no EGR. Taken today.

Enjoy

http://www.spartandieseltech.com/DSCN0276.avi

http://www.spartandieseltech.com/DSCN0277.avi

 

[haven]

The above links appear to be broken. My guess is that the
Spartan Diesel Tech modifications are "for off-road use only."

 

[Viggen]

Just like a 2.0T can be tuned a TDI can be tuned to as well. It is possible to get 40% more power while adding 15-20% better MPG at the same time. You could never do that with a gas 2.0T.

up until a few months ago in the areas I frequent in northern california, diesel was actually 5 cents less or the same a 87 gas for a while. Even now it seems to be only 5 cents more.

A few reasons why diesel might prevail over gasoline for some people would be...........

The option for alternative fuels. You now have the option to not support big oil companies that do not allways have our best interest in mind.

Being able to travel longer distances without re-fueling. Saves time on trips.

For extreme situations or neglected vehicles; diesel will not combust and cause dangerous engine fires in the same way gasoline will.

Last, but not least: No SMOG checks! :victory:

Im not arguing against diesel in general, just from a entry price point of view, it does not pay for itself unless you plan on keeping the vehicle for a long time. I bought my GLI with the 2.0T and the 6MT over a TDI as in the end, even with it completely loaded with all options, over the lifetime of the loan, it was cheaper. In terms of diesel powered trucks and SUVs, look at the stickers. Theres a $4000+ buy in difference between the the VR6 and the TDI Touareg and with that comes only a quoted 4 mpg city and 5 mpg city advantage. When you look at that small of a difference, the diesel is barely worth it. Add in the market adjustments that all the dealers add onto the diesel and you have something that hardly makes financial sense over the length of ownership. Im not talking about lifetime of the vehicle, just original buyer ownership.

Cant argue much against smog checks although smog equipment comes with a long warranty and doesnt fail very much on gassers. Could point out that the new diesels require an additive (every few oil changes) to pass emissions and that isnt free adding even more to the cost of ownership of a new diesel powered car/ truck. True, you can run alternative fuels but the newer diesels dont even like that all that much requiring very diluted levels of biodiesel so youre really not that free of the big oil companies. Around here, regular is $2.95 and diesel is $3.14.

If you drive a lot and plan on keeping your car beyond the usual 5 year loan, diesel is the way to go. If you are a typical American car owner, diesel just doesnt work out financially. It sucks, but its true. I would love a diesel powered midsize SUV. Give me something like an XTerra or 4Runner in diesel, dont price it insanely like the diesel powered VAG or Chrysler products and I would buy it and probably actually keep it for a while. Thats why I hope Mahindra figures their stuff out to show other manufacturers with good diesels available everywhere else in the world, Americans would be open to alternatives.

 

[dragogt]

The above links appear to be broken. My guess is that the
Spartan Diesel Tech modifications are "for off-road use only."

I had to D/L the file to get it to play in WMP or QT..

 

[haven]

Autocar, the esteemed British automotive magazine, recently tested an efficient gas powered small car, a gas/electric hybrid, and three diesel models. The results showed the diesels are more fuel efficient, despite the fact that the diesel vehicles tested are larger, heavier cars with more space inside.

Alfa Mito 1.4 Multiair (gasoline) -- 32.2 mpg
Honda CRZ (hybrid gas/electric) -- 36 mpg
Volkswagen Golf GTD -- 36 mpg
Mercedes E200 CDI Blue Efficiency SE -- 39 mpg
BMW 320D Efficient Dynamics -- 41 mpg

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/249106/

(Note: The article talks about 50+ mpg because the British Imperial gallon is about 20% larger than the USA gallon. The above mpg figures are stated in USA gallons.)

 

[Pedro]

Autocar, the esteemed British automotive magazine, recently tested an efficient gas powered small car, a gas/electric hybrid, and three diesel models. The results showed the diesels are more fuel efficient, despite the fact that the diesel vehicles tested are larger, heavier cars with more space inside.

Alfa Mito 1.4 Multiair (gasoline) -- 32.2 mpg
Honda CRZ (hybrid gas/electric) -- 36 mpg
Volkswagen Golf GTD -- 36 mpg
Mercedes E200 CDI Blue Efficiency SE -- 39 mpg
BMW 320D Efficient Dynamics -- 41 mpg

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/249106/

(Note: The article talks about 50+ mpg because the British Imperial gallon is about 20% larger than the USA gallon. The above mpg figures are stated in USA gallons.)

Nice link!

Imperial gallon is ~20% smaller than the US Gallon.