Don't flame... BUT is the Wrangler the new Defender for the U.S. ???

[proper4wd]

Because that is less than 1% of the buying population's idea of a great Defender.

Most would say, I want 4 zone climate control, leather seats, enough legroom to stretch out, room for 3 car seats in back, easy to get in and out of, has to do 95mph on the highway on rails to keep up with traffic, great audio system for pumping bro tunes, etc.

Probably the only thing I would guarantee you about the new Defender is that it will be launched in AA Yellow

 

[greynolds]

Theoretical question here...

If there was a 2018 Defender, 4 door SW, full frame but IFS/IRS (think current gen LR4), 33's on 18" wheels standard (room for 35's with a reprogram lift), front and rear lockers, Supercharged V6 engine at 350hp, and a factory winch bumper available... price point $80k for all the above... (before tax)

Would you buy it?

Sounds kinda a lot like a MB G-Wagon, but with IFS/IRS (which the next generation G-Wagon might also end up with).

It's certainly something I would consider, but I'd have to see it in person before giving a definitive answer. For the US market, the $80k price point could very likely be where it will end up. If they nailed the design (hint: make them look like current Defenders), they could probably sell a bunch of them.

 

[zelatore]

Theoretical question here...

If there was a 2018 Defender, 4 door SW, full frame but IFS/IRS (think current gen LR4), 33's on 18" wheels standard (room for 35's with a reprogram lift), front and rear lockers, Supercharged V6 engine at 350hp, and a factory winch bumper available... price point $80k for all the above... (before tax)

Would you buy it?

Not at 80K. $50K and you've got my attention.

You seem to be assuming air suspension similar to the current offerings. I don't expect that, nor do I expect IFS/IRS. But then again, I can't say I'd be surprised.

How about no air suspension and fancy ride height adjustments - stick to springs and save a few bucks.
Keep the weight down and give us a 300 hp n/a V6 and save a few bucks on the blower motor (the 300 hp in my LR3 is adequate, but would be better if it didn't weigh north of 6K lbs)
Stick with solid axles and again save a few bucks.

Now do we have a $50K truck? That's still a premium over the Rubi, but it's close enough to cannibalize sales from it given you can option a Rubi over $40K.

 

[dwvninety]

50K Defender and 38K Discovery Sport? I wonder what the next Discovery will start at 45K maybe? The 38K Discovery Sport is bare bones, does it even offer low range? I know the new 2014 LR4 low range is an option. A 50K defender with all options might end up at 65K. Just speculating.

 

[zelatore]

Base on a new LR4 is $50K. I would assume (there I go again) that the next-gen Defender would be cheaper than an LR4 with it's luxury items.

 

[proper4wd]

The next gen LR4 is going further upmarket to battle the Mercedes GL.

Jeep has yet to find the price ceiling on the Wrangler. You can get one close to $50k and even way beyond if you order an AEV model through a dealer.

It only makes sense that LR will be in the next tier which would mean bare bones Defender 50k (2 door) and fully optioned 4 door 75k+.

The F Type really is the pricing model here. It starts under 70 but any one that you would want is 85+ and they top out around 105. Also look at the Range Rover... Pricing from 77 through 200. LR is not afraid of covering a wide range with one model and they never start cheap. The Defender will be the same.

 

[roverrocks]

The next gen LR4 is going further upmarket to battle the Mercedes GL.

Jeep has yet to find the price ceiling on the Wrangler. You can get one close to $50k and even way beyond if you order an AEV model through a dealer.

It only makes sense that LR will be in the next tier which would mean bare bones Defender 50k (2 door) and fully optioned 4 door 75k+.

The F Type really is the pricing model here. It starts under 70 but any one that you would want is 85+ and they top out around 105. Also look at the Range Rover... Pricing from 77 through 200. LR is not afraid of covering a wide range with one model and they never start cheap. The Defender will be the same.

I'll believe a new rugged offroad worthy American selling Defender at a semi-reasonable price with a low-range when I see one actually sitting in an American showroom. Until then it's just a rumor. Simply an internet rumor. A mirage. A pipe dream. An Atlantian dream.

 

[zelatore]

New Defender--- Solid axles. Simple electrics. Wheel wells that will accommodate a 35" tire without metalwork, driver selectable lockers F and R, Not a fat bloated body like a JK, more like a TJ/LJ dimension. Turbo diesel option, Coil springs, decent ergonomics, short approach/departure, tucked up underbody, axles that can turn a 35 without fear stock, optional extra fuel, 2 batteries. Choice of body like Toyota 70 series.

dream on...

yes please

 

[newhue]

in 20 years, every Puma Defender on the planet will be in or on its way to a container to the US.

I tell you what, how about in 5 years I'll bring a Tdi130 over, drive it for 6 months around Western US's back country, then sell it to help cover the cost of the trip. It will be 25 years old by then and up for sale.


To be honest I'm a bit lost in this thread. I cant speak about Jeeps I don't know anything about them apart from the look small.
But last year myself and 5 mates took our families in our Defenders across the Madigan line in the central Simpson Desert here in Aus. 11 days to cross to 1200 dunes, all vehicles at GVM or more. Max speed was 9 mile/h with most of the day being cross axe-led articulation. This was after we crossed the lower Simpson for 4 days, another 1200 dunes. Before that we travelled hundred of miles on corrugated dirt reads to get to the edge of the desert, and before that did 1000's of miles on the black top to reach the edge of the dirt. All our Defenders did it with ease, comfort, and without fail. We all find the up right seating very comfortable. After a day behind the wheel it's easy to hop out and collect firewood, set up camp, walk a hill or dune for a photo. We all hauled 180 to 200lt of fuel, 150 to 200lt of water, 2 spare tyres, enough spares to rebuild a car almost, 2 adults and 2 kids in each car, one with 3. Plus all the camping gear and food to make it all work. The Defender is basic, somewhat old and tatty in todays mod cons of bells and whistles. It's slow but can climb a tree, it's noisy but you can hose it out, and it does exactly what it was design to do; drive over all types of terrain, loaded to the hilt, with reasonably good comfort, and be possible to fix it if you have to. Not everyones flavour, bit it does do what it was made for very well. It will be a shame to see it go. And very sad for you lot not to have them easily accessed.

I drive my Tdci 130 daily as a work car, seems alright to me. My little 2.4 only produces 120KW, and 460Nm of talk after a tune. The gears make it slow and agricultural. I reverse park it a bit as it has quite a big turning circle with the live axel. But I still prefer to drive it to the local store over the wifes little car. It just puts a smile on my face for being nothing more than a simple Defender. Sorry if I've added nothing. But other Defender drivers will know exactly what I am talking about. Big wave to you.

 

[overlander]

I tell you what, how about in 5 years I'll bring a Tdi130 over, drive it for 6 months around Western US's back country, then sell it to help cover the cost of the trip. It will be 25 years old by then and up for sale.


To be honest I'm a bit lost in this thread. I cant speak about Jeeps I don't know anything about them apart from the look small.
But last year myself and 5 mates took our families in our Defenders across the Madigan line in the central Simpson Desert here in Aus. 11 days to cross to 1200 dunes, all vehicles at GVM or more. Max speed was 9 mile/h with most of the day being cross axe-led articulation. This was after we crossed the lower Simpson for 4 days, another 1200 dunes. Before that we travelled hundred of miles on corrugated dirt reads to get to the edge of the desert, and before that did 1000's of miles on the black top to reach the edge of the dirt. All our Defenders did it with ease, comfort, and without fail. We all find the up right seating very comfortable. After a day behind the wheel it's easy to hop out and collect firewood, set up camp, walk a hill or dune for a photo. We all hauled 180 to 200lt of fuel, 150 to 200lt of water, 2 spare tyres, enough spares to rebuild a car almost, 2 adults and 2 kids in each car, one with 3. Plus all the camping gear and food to make it all work. The Defender is basic, somewhat old and tatty in todays mod cons of bells and whistles. It's slow but can climb a tree, it's noisy but you can hose it out, and it does exactly what it was design to do; drive over all types of terrain, loaded to the hilt, with reasonably good comfort, and be possible to fix it if you have to. Not everyones flavour, bit it does do what it was made for very well. It will be a shame to see it go. And very sad for you lot not to have them easily accessed.

I drive my Tdci 130 daily as a work car, seems alright to me. My little 2.4 only produces 120KW, and 460Nm of talk after a tune. The gears make it slow and agricultural. I reverse park it a bit as it has quite a big turning circle with the live axel. But I still prefer to drive it to the local store over the wifes little car. It just puts a smile on my face for being nothing more than a simple Defender. Sorry if I've added nothing. But other Defender drivers will know exactly what I am talking about. Big wave to you.

Cheers mate!

 

[libarata]

I hear a lot of "I want options A through bajillion, 50 year old technology, just as safe and fuel efficient as new technology, my choice of body style, frame length, shift knobs, bolt colors, right/left/rear drive, tax free, can drive the rubicon at 75mph, 28 speed cases, delivered to my door with a playboy bunny... All for about $3.50... I can't? Well, you have a booger face!"

 

[LR Max]

I tell you what, how about in 5 years I'll bring a Tdi130 over, drive it for 6 months around Western US's back country, then sell it to help cover the cost of the trip. It will be 25 years old by then and up for sale.


To be honest I'm a bit lost in this thread. I cant speak about Jeeps I don't know anything about them apart from the look small.
But last year myself and 5 mates took our families in our Defenders across the Madigan line in the central Simpson Desert here in Aus. 11 days to cross to 1200 dunes, all vehicles at GVM or more. Max speed was 9 mile/h with most of the day being cross axe-led articulation. This was after we crossed the lower Simpson for 4 days, another 1200 dunes. Before that we travelled hundred of miles on corrugated dirt reads to get to the edge of the desert, and before that did 1000's of miles on the black top to reach the edge of the dirt. All our Defenders did it with ease, comfort, and without fail. We all find the up right seating very comfortable. After a day behind the wheel it's easy to hop out and collect firewood, set up camp, walk a hill or dune for a photo. We all hauled 180 to 200lt of fuel, 150 to 200lt of water, 2 spare tyres, enough spares to rebuild a car almost, 2 adults and 2 kids in each car, one with 3. Plus all the camping gear and food to make it all work. The Defender is basic, somewhat old and tatty in todays mod cons of bells and whistles. It's slow but can climb a tree, it's noisy but you can hose it out, and it does exactly what it was design to do; drive over all types of terrain, loaded to the hilt, with reasonably good comfort, and be possible to fix it if you have to. Not everyones flavour, bit it does do what it was made for very well. It will be a shame to see it go. And very sad for you lot not to have them easily accessed.

I drive my Tdci 130 daily as a work car, seems alright to me. My little 2.4 only produces 120KW, and 460Nm of talk after a tune. The gears make it slow and agricultural. I reverse park it a bit as it has quite a big turning circle with the live axel. But I still prefer to drive it to the local store over the wifes little car. It just puts a smile on my face for being nothing more than a simple Defender. Sorry if I've added nothing. But other Defender drivers will know exactly what I am talking about. Big wave to you.

That is because you are using them for their intended purpose.

Here in the US, basically, a decent selling vehicle has to have a 5 star crash rating (because that means a lot to people), have good power and comfort on the interstates. Oh and reliable. We can't stand a car that isn't reliable and flag it as a POS. On the interstate, it better be able to do 75 mph with power on tap.

We don't have anywhere you can spend 4 days without seeing pavement (ok maybe, but you actually gotta work hard at it). People REALLY just want a car to look cool when they are at the pay-campsites. I saw it out west. Here we are, in a whatever little car and this guy pulls up. He takes out a camera and video records himself opening his RTT, unloading all his gear, setting up his stuff, etc. BTW I don't think that SUV ever saw dirt however he had enough crap to support the crossing of the Sahara. Despite the fact that we don't live within 4,000 miles of the Sahara (btw I google mapped the Sahara from Atlanta, GA, its like, 4,300 miles) and this guy won't ever go there. Especially not with this truck.

That is where the Jeep JKU (4 door) comes in. It looks the part and heck, it can PLAY the part if you know what you are doing behind the wheel. But the bottom line is that most people are going to drive their jeep back and forth to work. Or take the kids somewhere. Or whatever. THAT IS IT. Around here, they might go down to Daytona Beach for beach driving, but that is it or feel secure about being in their vehicle when it snows or on the occasional gravel road. BTW my sedan is a champion on most FS roads here in GA (because they are all graded and most of them are gravel).

Jeep also played up on the "its a jeep, go exploring" theme that is so embedded in our culture. I'm sure ya'll have it in Australia but here, the image of a CJ-7 with no top or doors out on a farm dirt road is like, Maximum American. So jeep plays on that and boom, you sell 54906873054349087854098354x jeeps. The 4 door is needed so now its a family car. During the last recession, people got rid of their toys. No longer do people have a 1 ton pickup with a trailer to tow their rock buggy. Now they just build a 4 door jeep and deal with not hitting the hardest trails.

I have nothing against the new jeeps (except that the auto trans trucks just randomly catch fire, I don't like that) but they are bought, built, and then never used.

 

[proper4wd]

All I'm saying is that the Wrangler has capitalized the under $50k market, and there's the G-wag which is popular despite it's Defender-like tendencies at $120k, so that leaves a pretty natural slot for the Defender in the middle right? Put yourself in LR's shoes... it makes sense...

 

[LR Max]

All I'm saying is that the Wrangler has capitalized the under $50k market

This pretty much sums it up. You may have said it before, but now it has gotten through my thick skull.

 

[greynolds]

All I'm saying is that the Wrangler has capitalized the under $50k market, and there's the G-wag which is popular despite it's Defender-like tendencies at $120k, so that leaves a pretty natural slot for the Defender in the middle right? Put yourself in LR's shoes... it makes sense...

Exactly. If LR wanted to, they could do a "basic" edition with a base price in the $50-60k range to take the high end market from Jeep and a luxury edition with a base price in the $80-100+k range with a luxury interior to compete with the G-Wagon. I definitely don't see them coming out with a new Defender below $50k in the US market. For the rest of the world, I could see a very basic model that is less expensive, but that version which probably wouldn't have electric windows and all sorts of other items that the US market demands wouldn't sell well here.

Would I buy either version? Now that I have a G-Wagon, I'm not sure as I'm really happy with the G. But if I were shopping for a new vehicle, I'd definitely take a close look at a Defender replacement that fit those price ranges as long as they get the design right (and I don't mean just the body style).