Don't flame... BUT is the Wrangler the new Defender for the U.S. ???

[roverandom]

I agree they could do it and new tech is not inherently unreliable. If they could just engineer a system that was not so interdependent that if a problem exists in one system it does not shut the entire vehicle down it would be great. The new 2.0l Gas and Diesel engines are very impressive.

What LR has trouble with is exactly when its time to stop adding useless crap.

Like Harley Earl in the 1950's adding chrome and fins to everything on four wheels, Land Rover have a tendency to make up for mechanical shortcomings with "groundbreaking" electronic gadgets.

Wade aid, cameras, heads up display of a see through bonnet? None of this compensates for simply getting out and taking a look so why bother?

If the New Defender is as good as we hope and priced appropriately I will buy one. If not, I won't.

Fair enough?

 

[brickpaul65]

I don't see it being cheaper than the highest wrangler offering. Possible starting 5k above. I don't think they want the volume to reduce profit margin. More cars sold does not always mean more profit. Exclusivity helps to justify the cost of their offerings. Granted, I don't view the LR3 and LR4 as overpriced, just expensive. The full size range rover, hard to say because it starts above what I can ever see throwing at a vehicle without a huge increase in earnings. However, after driving my wife's 2008 L322, I can say I have changed my opinion of them being overrated

 

[libarata]

I agree they could do it and new tech is not inherently unreliable. If they could just engineer a system that was not so interdependent that if a problem exists in one system it does not shut the entire vehicle down it would be great. The new 2.0l Gas and Diesel engines are very impressive.

What LR has trouble with is exactly when its time to stop adding useless crap.

Like Harley Earl in the 1950's adding chrome and fins to everything on four wheels, Land Rover have a tendency to make up for mechanical shortcomings with "groundbreaking" electronic gadgets.

Wade aid, cameras, heads up display of a see through bonnet? None of this compensates for simply getting out and taking a look so why bother?

If the New Defender is as good as we hope and priced appropriately I will buy one. If not, I won't.

Fair enough?

How many folks that buy them brand new get out and look? They are not catering to anyone, but folks that will buy them new, drive em for 3-4 years and buy another one. It is a standard scheme for every manufacturer. Conservative will not make them the billions they chase, but user stupid, fancy, flashy doodads will. You can say that you get out and look, but take a looksy at the mall parking lot, and wonder how many of them have done so little as to check their tire pressures, or think about rotating their tires, let alone check the color and smell of their fluids.

 

[XJLI]

And by the way, my above reference to Cherokee vs. Range Rover was not in comparing them to each other, but comparing how the Cherokee has "evolved" with how the Range Rover has. Obviously the two models are different, but we are comparing Jeep to LR in a conversation about heritage right? Where's the heritage in the new Cherokee?

7 slot grill (duh), short front and rear overhangs, a "trail rated" offering with a fairly impressive crawl ratio...

series > defender. that works
RRC > new range rover.. while the original RR wasn't the uber luxe barge it is now, it still remains the top name in luxury off road.
disco > LR4... meh. not so much. that had to change to keep competitive in the market. same thing goes for everything with jeep besides the wrangler and grand cherokee.

willys > CJ > wrangler
fullsize cherokee > grand cherokee

 

[proper4wd]

Theoretical question here...

If there was a 2018 Defender, 4 door SW, full frame but IFS/IRS (think current gen LR4), 33's on 18" wheels standard (room for 35's with a reprogram lift), front and rear lockers, Supercharged V6 engine at 350hp, and a factory winch bumper available... price point $80k for all the above... (before tax)

Would you buy it?

 

[libarata]

Give it another 50 years, and everyone will be driving what amounts to a Honda Civic. Better start whining now.

 

[David Harris]

It's the old rule: Most drivers of other makes who complain about Land Rovers secretly want one themselves.

 

[overlander]

in 20 years, every Puma Defender on the planet will be in or on its way to a container to the US.

 

[David Harris]

in 20 years, every Puma Defender on the planet will be in or on its way to a container to the US.

Ha!

 

[libarata]

Ha!

Racist

 

[roverandom]

Theoretical question here...

If there was a 2018 Defender, 4 door SW, full frame but IFS/IRS (think current gen LR4), 33's on 18" wheels standard (room for 35's with a reprogram lift), front and rear lockers, Supercharged V6 engine at 350hp, and a factory winch bumper available... price point $80k for all the above... (before tax)

Would you buy it?

No. Not at $80,000. But if I could get it in a fuel efficient 200-250 HP gas or diesel flavour, coil springs and a modular, lightweight body for around $40-$50k I'd certainly be interested.

 

[roverandom]

How many folks that buy them brand new get out and look? They are not catering to anyone, but folks that will buy them new, drive em for 3-4 years and buy another one. It is a standard scheme for every manufacturer. Conservative will not make them the billions they chase, but user stupid, fancy, flashy doodads will. You can say that you get out and look, but take a looksy at the mall parking lot, and wonder how many of them have done so little as to check their tire pressures, or think about rotating their tires, let alone check the color and smell of their fluids.

I see your point and these perhaps are pertinent to a Range Rover buyer. I think those interested in a utility vehicle like a Defender however are prepared to get out and look now and again.

Toyota took Land Rovers place and now rules the utility market in most of the world because they make simple, robust and cheap vehicles.

Let Range Rover be a luxury SUV and let Defender be a utility/work truck. They don't need to be interchangeable, that WAS what the Discovery was originally for before they decided to turn everything into a Range Rover wannabe.

 

[sailor]

New Defender--- Solid axles. Simple electrics. Wheel wells that will accommodate a 35" tire without metalwork, driver selectable lockers F and R, Not a fat bloated body like a JK, more like a TJ/LJ dimension. Turbo diesel option, Coil springs, decent ergonomics, short approach/departure, tucked up underbody, axles that can turn a 35 without fear stock, optional extra fuel, 2 batteries. Choice of body like Toyota 70 series.

dream on...

 

[optimusprime]

New Defender--- Solid axles. Simple electrics. Wheel wells that will accommodate a 35" tire without metalwork, driver selectable lockers F and R, Not a fat bloated body like a JK, more like a TJ/LJ dimension. Turbo diesel option, Coil springs, decent ergonomics, short approach/departure, tucked up underbody, axles that can turn a 35 without fear stock, optional extra fuel, 2 batteries. Choice of body like Toyota 70 series.

dream on...

Not to mention,decent factory recovery points,waterproofed electrics,tough interior materials,tough interior switch gear and ability to take a proper roof rack.

 

[roverandom]

I think you have just described everyone's idea of a really great Defender. You would think a OEM like Land Rover could build that in their sleep?