End of the world

[Alaska Mike]

Does anyone actually believe Land Rover has a future in the US? A luxury marque that didn't post incredible numbers even when the bloated SUV trend was at its zenith? A brand that isn't know for fuel efficiency or reliability?

Unless Tata turns is around in a big way and makes a fuel efficient vehicle that is more practical for a wider-range of US consumers, there won't be a dealership left to sell the vehicles. That boat has sailed.

Whatever we might get that's badged as the Defender will have no relationship with the D-90 or Series rig. It will be a unibody, IFS/IRS rig with a low payload and "styling cues" that somewhat hint at a Defender. All of the utility Defenders have already been built.

 

[Mike_rupp]

1999 was the last year of the Discovery 1.

The likelihood of a hand built Defender continuing in production is extremely low. I know that many people hold out some hope that things will look up one day and we will be awash in nice shiny newly built Defenders in the US, but Santa Claus isn't going to deliver.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Does anyone actually believe Land Rover has a future in the US? A luxury marque that didn't post incredible numbers even when the bloated SUV trend was at its zenith? A brand that isn't know for fuel efficiency or reliability?

Unless Tata turns is around in a big way and makes a fuel efficient vehicle that is more practical for a wider-range of US consumers, there won't be a dealership left to sell the vehicles. That boat has sailed.

Whatever we might get that's badged as the Defender will have no relationship with the D-90 or Series rig. It will be a unibody, IFS/IRS rig with a low payload and "syling cues" that somewhat hint at a Defender. All of the utility Defenders have already been built.

I agree. In it's current direction, Land Rover is finished. They started with a niche business of building "tractors that you can drive into town", and extended into building transportation for use where there are little or no roads. I do believe the Discovery series was a logical progression that provide car-like interior comfort in a vehicle still capable of going on unimproved roads.

The leap to the modern Range Rovers was only going to ever work as long as SUV's were in vogue... because they really don't have much point for existing. It's a luxury vehicle that's far too expensive to take off road. But, they were a cash cow. I think LR moved upscale, because with ever increasing labour and overhead costs, they can't make money making an affordable, simple vehicle. As much as we might dislike the direction, they HAD to build $100k Range Rovers so they could afford to keep building Defenders.

Now that SUV's are falling out of fashion, the luxury SUV's will have no market. LR will not be able to afford to stay in business. Their fate was only delayed by the money they made on the upper models.

With the current HUGE cost of developing new vehicles, they cannot afford to build 20,000 units per year of an affordable vehicle. Toyota and Nissan own that market now, and build 100,000's per year.

The only hope for LR is to take a leap of faith, design something with mass-market appeal and an affordable price and sell tons of them. Use the LR heritage to try and steal sales from the Japanese. However, their heritage, more precisely a history of unreliability, is also a huge hindrance.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Let me throw this out there:
When/if Land Rover stops US sales, will the rift between the Black/Green oval owners heal?

A lack of dealership support would likely cause all of the upscale soccer moms and less mechanically inclined to jump ship, leaving a core of faithful owners who would cannibalize the vehicles that weren't crushed- much like the Series owners in the '70s and '80s.

Or, if/when the next line of eco-friendly Land Rovers hits the market, will owners of "real" Land Rovers (Series through DII, based on common perception of capability) band together against the newcomers? If you thought the Freelander was disliked, wait for the first rig based on a Nano chassis.

At the core (at least on this site), a Rover owner is a Rover owner. It's all about getting out there and seeing new stuff, while occasionally fending off a rogue bull rhino.

 

[Yorker]

I am hoping that with the current owners we might just see production of the current Defender continue on in India for largely unregulated markets.

Maybe- Who knows though? rememeber back in the '90s when they were thinking about moving 100% of Defender production to OCTAR?

then again there is this:

JAGUAR LAND ROVER TO ENTER INDIAN MARKET

Jaguar Land Rover has confirmed that it is to begin selling its range of premium performance saloon cars and sports utility vehicles in the Indian market later this year and has today reached agreement with Tata Motors Limited to be the exclusive importer.

Jaguar and Land Rover's award-winning vehicles, including Jaguar's XF and XKR and Land Rover's Discovery and Range Rover, are renowned around the world for their unique blend of refined luxury, quality and capability and will now become officially available in this rapidly expanding market.


David Smith, CEO of Jaguar Land Rover, said: "We are delighted to be formally entering the Indian market, an economy which is still growing appreciably, and able to offer our premium products to a whole new group of customers. It is an important strategic move for Jaguar Land Rover and will enable us to realise our competitive potential in this significant market."


The newly-formed Premier Car Division, within Tata Motors Passenger Car Business unit, will assume responsibility for the distribution of all Jaguars and Land Rovers in India and is also due to open the first showroom at Ceejay House in Worli, Mumbai, in June this year. This flagship facility will offer a range of both Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles and aims to establish a benchmark experience in luxury car sales in India.
Rohit Suri, who has extensive premium automotive sector experience, has been appointed to head the new organisation and is leading plans to develop a dealer network through 2009 and 2010.


Ravi Kant, Managing Director of Tata Motors, commented: "This is a natural move for both businesses and will allow Jaguar and Land Rover to establish a strong and deserved presence in India. We are very pleased to develop our relationship with Jaguar Land Rover in this way and to provide the opportunity for Indian customers to access their premium products for the first time."


Further details, including specifications, are available on the new Jaguar India website (www.jaguar.in) and Land Rover India website (www.landrover.in) which have gone live simultaneously.

 

[stu454]

Mike,

I agree.

Being the owner of an '01 D2, I could be a snob to D3, RRS, Freelander, F2 and MK3 Rover owners.

But I'm not.

Series One owners can be snobs to S2 owners. Series 2 to Series 3 owners. And so on and so freakin' forth

So the point of this ramble is this: Unless you own and daily drive a Series 1, you likely should not look down your nose at those who own Rovers that were built after yours.

It's something of a small miracle that the Rover community has not snobbed itself into oblivion.

Not too ticked about this; just mildly annoyed.

 

[JSBriggs]

The likelihood of a hand built Defender continuing in production is extremely low. I know that many people hold out some hope that things will look up one day and we will be awash in nice shiny newly built Defenders in the US, but Santa Claus isn't going to deliver.

I would like to see the bodystyle stay the same (to allow continued interchangability) but to be made using modern methods. I agree that the hand build nature is what is killing it, both in labor costs, and in build quality.

The rear door is a good example of what Im getting at. A new design with a pressed frame, rather than a multi peice welded frame. A better/more durable design, but it will work with 50 yrs of existing trucks.

-Jeff

 

[R_Lefebvre]

The only real Land Rover is this one:

It was all downhill once they added more seats and moved the steering wheel to the side.

 

[sinuhexavier]

Fixed it for ya!

Aaah touche´...

 

[Snagger]

Rumours like this have been around since the mid 90s. While the UK MoD is refurbishing its older LR instead of replacing them because LR won't play along, other military forces, emergency services and commercial users throughout the world are still buying Defender. To replace it with something completely new seems unlikely, because all those customers will not buy the new product if they have to re-equip and convert their fleets from scratch when the Defender mounted equipment can't be transferred to the new vehicle with different dimensions.

 

[UK4X4]

Just a note for you internet landrover experts.........


LR still sells "rest of world " specification defenders........

with no electronics and the older mechanical 300TDI diesel engine

mmm now where did I find that little piece of info .......

Just takes a little longer to google

As far a out sourcing the fabrication..........that was one of the original things behind the landrovers design.

Shipped out in flat pack box's to be assembled else where with a few spanners and a tube of glue.

Others were licenced to produce the vehicles completely in their part of the world...
Santana in spain for example and in Brazil who then added locally built better than original engines, gearbox's etc

 

[Alaska Mike]

Very true, but that doesn't bode well for the North American market. Land Rover would have to really redesign the Defender to meet the current and future safety and emmissions standards, and for a relatively small market like the US, that doesn't make sense. It would be more involved than putting in a more fuel efficient engine and some airbags.

That leaves us with a brand that doesn't sell economical vehicles in the US, in a time when economical vehicles are the only thing selling. With the state of the North American auto industry, I can see increased tarriffs on vehicles made/assembled in other countries, driving the price up further. I can completely see Tata pulling out of a market like that and instead focusing on the developing nations. How many years did Mahindra build CJ-3Bs for just that market?

Land Rover as an international brand will likely survive in some form. I'm just not so sure about Land Rover NA.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Look, ... I don't know what the appeal is for everyone else.

I know for me, ... I drive my NAS 110 everyday. It keeps my dreams alive. Albeit, my daily commute is about 3 blocks, the truck (even if I gaze out the window at it) takes me far away to remote places. I like to climb up into the thing and just sit. It is like therapy.

I have owned just about every model out there but a Series I. (had a IIa) There is a mystique about the Defender that seems to defy logic. It leaks cold air and water. It leaks oil and power-steering fluid all over my nice aggregate driveway! It is hot in the summer time (the air conditioner is two hamsters in a box blowing over ice cubes!).
Everything about the truck would make the sane person run and scream as fast as they can from it.

But even my wife commented last weekend as we tooled around in the thing, ... that it was amazing to her just how friendly folks become when you drive around in a 110! Everyone waves and acknowledges you. Everyone wants to stop and ask questions and admire the beast.

What ever the fairy dust that Land Rover sprinkled over the trucks before 1999, got left out of the next generation of trucks.

We currently have a 2006 Range Rover that is tricked to the max with entertainment center and rosewood through-out, and we have it for sale to be replaced with a White/tan 1995 SWB Range Rover that is on NAS steel wheels with an ARB front and rear bumper.
The new truck while luxurious, just doesn't seem appropriate going through the jungles of New Guinea!

If you have done the right research, you find that when Ford sold Land Rover to TaTa, it was Ford's most profitable division. They paired it with Jaguar (their least profitable division) to try to entice the sale of that marque.

Most see it as one of Ford's most brainless moves. Personally, prior to 1999, when the trucks were hand built, you could detect styling and function for the intended purpose. After that, ... they became assembly line, cookie cutter trucks to me. (and yes, I have owned a Series II Disco, an LR3, a P-38 Rangie, and two post P-38 Rangies)

I suspect for those of us that love the brand, it will become like those that love the Edsel, or Pontiacs (now). We will have to hoard parts (I have already started) and really love on our trucks and maintain them well if we want them to survive.

The new commercials for the Range Rovers that run on National Geographic channel show the Classic Great Divide Rangies crossing that summit and it takes me back every time to why I love the trucks.

Just be true to what it is you guys love about the trucks which is really what it represents ... and not just the truck itself. Keep hope alive!

Dendy

ps: sorry to go on and on.

 

[oonimog]

The only real Land Rover is this one:

It was all downhill once they added more seats and moved the steering wheel to the side.

You do realize that your only true Land Rover actually sits on a Jeep chassis...

 

[Rallyroo]

Here's an idea: Please give us a kit car version of the Defender 90/110. Then we can build one in our garage and then licensing it as a kit car.