Can you give us some more details on these new front springs? Pictures? Cost? Difficulty of installation. More travel would be very nice.
FG comfort
- Thread starter kerry
- Start date
Can you give us some more details on these new front springs? Pictures? Cost? Difficulty of installation. More travel would be very nice.
I had to retrace my steps over part of that awful road yesterday. Took an alternative route for part of it but part of the alternative road was even worse than the original route. Since the ride had been so jolting I applied some severe discipline to my right foot and drove no faster than 30 mph. It made the ride tolerable. Interminable, but tolerable. It's hard to do that when the road looks drivable at 55mph and people are passing you at that speed. There wasn't a lot of traffic so the danger of travelling at 30 mph when everyone else is driving 55mph was minimized. I think northern Newfoundland would be better served by easily gradable gravel roads rather than expenseive-to-get-resurfaced asphalt roads.
The Trans-Canada highway now seems like heaven at 64mph.
The Trans-Canada highway now seems like heaven at 64mph.
A question. In looking at my front suspension, I see that Fuso put a large block on top of the spring pack on which the rubber stop comes to rest. That block is quite high. Can someone knowledgable in suspension engineering comment on the implications of installing a lower block in its place? Switching out the blocks would in and of itself allow for more travel in the suspension. What exactly is the purpose of limiting the travel with that block? In reading some posts on Deaver Springs I ran across when googling the company, I see that Deaver changes the stop locations when installing new springs in some trucks to allow for more travel. I think that would amount to lowring that block.
Kerry, I won't have the springs on the truck for another week or so. I'll post pics after installation. I will probably need longer brake hoses also.The springs were $1200 which didn't seem too bad as I had had prices from 8 to 11 just to re-arch and add a couple of leaves.
Deaver seemed well informed about Fuso springs (as opposed to the usual "on a what"). They do a lot of Baja race trucks so modified suspension is their business. Call Jeff at 714.542.3703. He was great to work with.
Earl
Kerry,
it is alright to take out the bump-stops on the rear axle, but i definetly would not simply take them out on the front. a few years ago one of the safari tour companies in perth tried doing just that- they found that when one of thier cowboy drivers hit a really big bump, the front diff went straight through the sump... there is probly a bit of room there to decrease the size of the stop, but i wouldnt just take it out.
Andrew
it is alright to take out the bump-stops on the rear axle, but i definetly would not simply take them out on the front. a few years ago one of the safari tour companies in perth tried doing just that- they found that when one of thier cowboy drivers hit a really big bump, the front diff went straight through the sump... there is probly a bit of room there to decrease the size of the stop, but i wouldnt just take it out.
Andrew
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hi Kerry,
Another thing is to make sure if you ever get different spring packs, that the distance from the top of the bump block and the top of the diff stays the same. Your new springs may be much thicker for example so you might need to cut them down.
Hey Andrew, I heard of someone doing that here recently with a new Isuzu too. The diff breather went up and made a neat little hole in the sump. Wouldn't that wreck your day ???
John.
Another thing is to make sure if you ever get different spring packs, that the distance from the top of the bump block and the top of the diff stays the same. Your new springs may be much thicker for example so you might need to cut them down.
Hey Andrew, I heard of someone doing that here recently with a new Isuzu too. The diff breather went up and made a neat little hole in the sump. Wouldn't that wreck your day ???
John.
Any chance of before and after pictures and measurements?
Man, would it ever!
well technically the limited travel between the bump stops could also limit body roll in corners, ie as the truck rolls one way it can only go so far... but i think it far preferable (especially in a offroad truck) to have more travel, and more capability of taking big hits without bottoming out. and body roll can be easily controlled in other ways, like sway bars and/or stiff shocks. from what ive gathered, on a 4x4 like these, you want shocks with very little compression damping, but lots and lots of rebound, to control the unsprung weight of the thing. the lack of rebound damping is what causes the big jump when you hit a huge bump, and everything falls out of the dash, etc, as the springs compress straight down to the stops, then the rubber stops push them straight back up, with almost no resistance from the (standard) shocks.
this is just what i figured on these trucks, if anyone knows better (ie John..) then feel free to correct...
Andrew
Deaver spring update
Sorry for the delay in reporting on the springs. I left the Fuso at my son's shop for the installation while we went to the Blackrock desert for a fireworks show put on by my other son and a group of his friends. It took three days to setup the show - including two 30 foot high towers with Three 10 foot arms to hang targets from that were filled with about 50 pounds of fireworks each. They were shot at with Roman candle rifles and two cannons that shot 2" skyburst shells. After that the vast remainder of the 2400 pounds of the fireworks (no misprint) went up in about 30 minutes. It was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen.
Anyway, back to the springs. The ride is greatly improved - much closer to the ride of my '95 Cummins powered Dodge with the NCO Alaskan camper. The new spring pack is 1" taller (3.25" vs 2.25") and has 9 leaves rather than the stock 5. There are also pads between the the ends of the leaves.
At Deaver's suggestion I cut 1" off of the bump stops and now have 2.5" of travel. When I first saw the springs I thought they would be too stiff, but the ride is just night and day different.
My son said that the shocks are totally worn out with pretty much no damping left. We are ordering new shocks after measuring shock mount distance at both full compression and full droop. The truck is empty except for the flat bed and still has the stock wheels and tires. I'm thinking that I probably will not have to use suspension seats.
In my experience, admittedly with motorcycles, heavy rebound with light compression will allow the shock to pack down in a series of close bumps. After each bump the shock won't have time to return to normal ride height before the next bump and the ride height decreases with each bump until your spring travel is used up.
Earl
Sorry for the delay in reporting on the springs. I left the Fuso at my son's shop for the installation while we went to the Blackrock desert for a fireworks show put on by my other son and a group of his friends. It took three days to setup the show - including two 30 foot high towers with Three 10 foot arms to hang targets from that were filled with about 50 pounds of fireworks each. They were shot at with Roman candle rifles and two cannons that shot 2" skyburst shells. After that the vast remainder of the 2400 pounds of the fireworks (no misprint) went up in about 30 minutes. It was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen.
Anyway, back to the springs. The ride is greatly improved - much closer to the ride of my '95 Cummins powered Dodge with the NCO Alaskan camper. The new spring pack is 1" taller (3.25" vs 2.25") and has 9 leaves rather than the stock 5. There are also pads between the the ends of the leaves.
At Deaver's suggestion I cut 1" off of the bump stops and now have 2.5" of travel. When I first saw the springs I thought they would be too stiff, but the ride is just night and day different.
My son said that the shocks are totally worn out with pretty much no damping left. We are ordering new shocks after measuring shock mount distance at both full compression and full droop. The truck is empty except for the flat bed and still has the stock wheels and tires. I'm thinking that I probably will not have to use suspension seats.
In my experience, admittedly with motorcycles, heavy rebound with light compression will allow the shock to pack down in a series of close bumps. After each bump the shock won't have time to return to normal ride height before the next bump and the ride height decreases with each bump until your spring travel is used up.
Earl
Yes, this is when you have too much rebound, i believe it is called 'jack-down' (??). but you still dont want much compression damping, because leaf springs themselves act as comp damping, and too much more will not allow the suspension to work fast enough over rough ground.
Andrew
dhackney
Expedition Leader
All,
Sorry to have been off the forum so long and thus not adding any value to those who are searching for solutions or experiences. Don't hesitate to email me if you have questions regarding our experiences with the FG series.
For those who don't know us, we built an FG in 2006 and spent two years full time overlanding with it in NA and SA.
Our build thread is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2229&highlight=buildup
You'll learn all about what we did with suspension mods, etc. there.
Our trip thread is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10616&highlight=forgotten+continent
You'll learn about what it's like to experience the ride qualities of the FG for months at a time there.
Short version: We added custom Deaver spring packs front and rear, custom rear sway bar, Bilstein shocks, air seats, soundproofed cab. Changed to Goodyear tires in SA.
Kerry:
Your rough road experience reminds me of many, many kilometers underway in developing countries. The most frustrating roads for me are the ones you describe: irregular. They prevent you from getting any rhythm and really wear you out from up-down, left-right, on-off throttle, etc.
Some of these suspension mods help. Tire pressure definitely helps. But, in the end, these trucks will never be a Baja Class One truck (or high-end pre-runner) that can skim over one meter whoops at 120 kph in total comfort.
The final solution is to slow down and enjoy the journey. Remember, the journey is the destination...
Air seats:
We wouldn't have made it from San Diego to the Mexican border with the stock seats. We both consider Mary Hunter worthy of sainthood for making it around the world in the stock Fuso passenger seat.
There are photos of the air seat install here:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_07/index2.htm
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_08/index1.htm
Drawings, ordering info, etc. here:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm
Bottom line: No problems in two years of full time, every day use. Highly recommended marriage savers.
Deaver:
You can see photos of the Deaver shop and the process they go through when doing custom alterations here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_26/index4.htm
Once our truck was completely built and loaded, we took it in and they added one leaf to the front-left pack. Very cool process.
Bottom line: We had a great experience with Deaver and they are very highly recommended. (We're the reason they know what an FG is. You can tell Jeff that Hackney sent you. We learned of them from our friends who race in Baja.)
Suspension mods:
We added Bilstein shocks. They are about the same diameter as the stock shocks with no external reservoir. If I had it to do over I'd go with dual shocks or a beefier aftermarket solution.
Rear sway bar. We added a custom rear sway bar and it made a noticeable difference with our setup. Photos here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_17/index4.htm
We did not cut down the front stop blocks. We had so much weight that I think that could have created a potential interference situation.
Cab/Other:
We added soundproofing liners to the cab and it made a huge difference in day-to-living with the truck. Sound is very fatiguing, especially over long time periods. We ended up with an eerily quiet cab.
Install is easy. The cab is very quick and easy to strip out for full access. It also makes installing power/seat/sound system wiring very quick and easy.
Photos here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_18/index.htm
Other things that made life in the truck cab nice for long periods:
- Good sound system that didn't require high sound pressure levels
- Custom locking center console with four cup holders (we used cup holder inserts from a GM Denali pickup console)
- Additional dome light
- Additional flex neck map lights
- Custom mounted GPS in dash box (hidden in plain sight)
- Additional factory switches in dash to control external lighting, fuel heater, etc.
- Seat heaters (very handy and highly recommended)
- Switch controlled high output backup lights (one rear, one each on mirror brackets)
- External sat phone antenna connection
- External GPS antenna
- Radio antennas that were a few inches higher than our camper so we could tell if we could fit under things without leaving the cab
- External thermometer with internal readout
- Reverse video camera via stereo video flat panel display (very handy and highly recommended)
- Switch controlled reverse alarm (there are times out there when you don't want the alarm blaring)
- Switch controlled stock / air horns
- Railroad engine air horns (yes, you will want horns this loud at times)
- Warning/status LEDs for fuel filters, fuel booster pump, fuel heaters, house bank alternator error
- 12VDC power points to charge camera batteries, etc.
- VHF radio for inter-vehicle communications
- CB radio for emergency / inter-vehicle communications
- Locking overhead console for VHF radio
Doug
Sorry to have been off the forum so long and thus not adding any value to those who are searching for solutions or experiences. Don't hesitate to email me if you have questions regarding our experiences with the FG series.
For those who don't know us, we built an FG in 2006 and spent two years full time overlanding with it in NA and SA.
Our build thread is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2229&highlight=buildup
You'll learn all about what we did with suspension mods, etc. there.
Our trip thread is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10616&highlight=forgotten+continent
You'll learn about what it's like to experience the ride qualities of the FG for months at a time there.
Short version: We added custom Deaver spring packs front and rear, custom rear sway bar, Bilstein shocks, air seats, soundproofed cab. Changed to Goodyear tires in SA.
Kerry:
Your rough road experience reminds me of many, many kilometers underway in developing countries. The most frustrating roads for me are the ones you describe: irregular. They prevent you from getting any rhythm and really wear you out from up-down, left-right, on-off throttle, etc.
Some of these suspension mods help. Tire pressure definitely helps. But, in the end, these trucks will never be a Baja Class One truck (or high-end pre-runner) that can skim over one meter whoops at 120 kph in total comfort.
The final solution is to slow down and enjoy the journey. Remember, the journey is the destination...
Air seats:
We wouldn't have made it from San Diego to the Mexican border with the stock seats. We both consider Mary Hunter worthy of sainthood for making it around the world in the stock Fuso passenger seat.
There are photos of the air seat install here:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_07/index2.htm
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_08/index1.htm
Drawings, ordering info, etc. here:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm
Bottom line: No problems in two years of full time, every day use. Highly recommended marriage savers.
Deaver:
You can see photos of the Deaver shop and the process they go through when doing custom alterations here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_26/index4.htm
Once our truck was completely built and loaded, we took it in and they added one leaf to the front-left pack. Very cool process.
Bottom line: We had a great experience with Deaver and they are very highly recommended. (We're the reason they know what an FG is. You can tell Jeff that Hackney sent you. We learned of them from our friends who race in Baja.)
Suspension mods:
We added Bilstein shocks. They are about the same diameter as the stock shocks with no external reservoir. If I had it to do over I'd go with dual shocks or a beefier aftermarket solution.
Rear sway bar. We added a custom rear sway bar and it made a noticeable difference with our setup. Photos here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_17/index4.htm
We did not cut down the front stop blocks. We had so much weight that I think that could have created a potential interference situation.
Cab/Other:
We added soundproofing liners to the cab and it made a huge difference in day-to-living with the truck. Sound is very fatiguing, especially over long time periods. We ended up with an eerily quiet cab.
Install is easy. The cab is very quick and easy to strip out for full access. It also makes installing power/seat/sound system wiring very quick and easy.
Photos here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/photos/buildup_album_18/index.htm
Other things that made life in the truck cab nice for long periods:
- Good sound system that didn't require high sound pressure levels
- Custom locking center console with four cup holders (we used cup holder inserts from a GM Denali pickup console)
- Additional dome light
- Additional flex neck map lights
- Custom mounted GPS in dash box (hidden in plain sight)
- Additional factory switches in dash to control external lighting, fuel heater, etc.
- Seat heaters (very handy and highly recommended)
- Switch controlled high output backup lights (one rear, one each on mirror brackets)
- External sat phone antenna connection
- External GPS antenna
- Radio antennas that were a few inches higher than our camper so we could tell if we could fit under things without leaving the cab
- External thermometer with internal readout
- Reverse video camera via stereo video flat panel display (very handy and highly recommended)
- Switch controlled reverse alarm (there are times out there when you don't want the alarm blaring)
- Switch controlled stock / air horns
- Railroad engine air horns (yes, you will want horns this loud at times)
- Warning/status LEDs for fuel filters, fuel booster pump, fuel heaters, house bank alternator error
- 12VDC power points to charge camera batteries, etc.
- VHF radio for inter-vehicle communications
- CB radio for emergency / inter-vehicle communications
- Locking overhead console for VHF radio
Doug
Last edited:
westyss
Explorer
fg comfort
I just returned from a 8,225 km half way across Canada trip in my 140 FG 2007 and here are some comfort comments; harsh still! I installed Aons in the front and National air seats but still had some bad head slams into the roof. I am definately going to do a suspension upgrade along with shocks, any advice?? I am running 19.5 rims with michelin tires single rears. Some wheeling but mostly paved roads. Worst road conditions were downtown Winnipeg, Manitoba, brutal.
I am thinking of the obvious items , like a longer leaf spring and Bilstiens, but am unsure what the best bilstiens to use, any recommendations?
Other than the ride , the truck is fantastic.
Yves
I just returned from a 8,225 km half way across Canada trip in my 140 FG 2007 and here are some comfort comments; harsh still! I installed Aons in the front and National air seats but still had some bad head slams into the roof. I am definately going to do a suspension upgrade along with shocks, any advice?? I am running 19.5 rims with michelin tires single rears. Some wheeling but mostly paved roads. Worst road conditions were downtown Winnipeg, Manitoba, brutal.
I am thinking of the obvious items , like a longer leaf spring and Bilstiens, but am unsure what the best bilstiens to use, any recommendations?
Other than the ride , the truck is fantastic.
Yves