GMRS as an alternative to CB or 2m?

[gary in ohio]

So, you are right, there is a lack of "plug and play" options in the GMRS band, but it's a bit of a 'chicken-and-egg' conundrum, isn't it? Nobody makes them because nobody uses them. And nobody uses them because nobody makes them.

GMRS is not a band, but a service. There are lots of mobiles that are legal on the GMRS service. Just about every commerical radio manufacture sells a UHF radio and are at least part 90 compliant, While the FCC rules say part 95 compliant the FCC have stated that the more strigent part 90 radio are perfectly legal on GMRS.
SO Motorola, kenwood, icom, vertex all sell GMRS mobiles and handhelds.

 

[mep1811]

Gmrs

I use both GMRS and CB on the trail.

If I am just with my friend he and will use GMRS. The transmission is clearer and the range a little better. We use Radio Shack handhelds that xmit at 5 watts. I have a remote mike, amplified speaker and 6dB gain antenna and it works very well. On flat land we have talked over five miles.

The CBs are use when we are with a group and then use the GMRS as our private channel.

 

[1911]

GMRS, cb, FRS are all fine, as long as you only need to communicate a short distance. But if your trail group or convoy gets spread out, or you need to reach back to civilization, then none of these can come even close to 2M. If nothing else, it's just a matter of power - 75 watts will trump 4-5 watts every time.

 

[Martinjmpr]

You guys all make great points. I think the potential is there but the market is probably too small to get people excited about it, especially since the tech license is so easily available.

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get my HAM license back (KB0LOG - I assume they'll let me resurrect my old call sign? I tried to get a Technician call sign when I got my license in 1994 [LNLLL] but apparently they are all out of tech call signs in the 0 region which includes CO.)

 

[Alchemyguy]

I'm gonna pile on late here. We did a 5 day trip earlier this month that required a scout vehicle (my stock WK) run the road/trail/track ahead of a truck pulling a 5th-wheel horse trailer, followed by hikers trailing a horse train, and then the reverse. We used 2m and GMRS radios during this trip.

The GMRS were worthless. Utterly and completely. We couldn't achieve a single km of range in the hills and trees, but we could pick up the 5W handheld 2m for a solid 10-15km despite the terrain. If we'd been running mobiles for both vehicles (50W) I'm sure we could have easily doubled that.

Hiking a gap, tall and narrow mountains? 2m could work through once we cleared the deepest part, the GMRS didn't even pop until we had line of sight to the other guy.

This experience has only confirmed my previous observations; if you want to talkie with somebody a couple hundred yards away, GMRS (and FRS, by extension) is fine. Otherwise put the toys away and use a real tool.

 

[mikelite80]

Go HAM. Like others have said GMRS just don't work that well in the real world. If in the woods and you let someone else take a handheld to talk back to camp you'd probably be ok. Pick a nice random freq away from the popular ones and no will probably ever know. Of course this isn't legal and I would NEVER do such things! Of course there is no age limit on getting your HAM licence so make the kids do it with you.

 

[Pskhaat]

I think that should be restated to say that GMRS frequencies in FRS handhelds don't work that well. GMRS on a proper mobile platform would be perfectly good.

 

[rugbier]

What would be a good mobile unit for GMRS ( maybe a Ham / GMRS ) without spending a fortune?

 

[xtatik]

What would be a good mobile unit for GMRS ( maybe a Ham / GMRS ) without spending a fortune?

There are no Ham/GMRS units available to be operated in the U.S. It's a one or the other proposition with one requiring the passing of a test in order to become licensed.

 

[xtatik]

I think that should be restated to say that GMRS frequencies in FRS handhelds don't work that well. GMRS on a proper mobile platform would be perfectly good.

True, for short-range truck to truck communications. But, relying on them to perform in the same manner as an equivalently powered amateur rig would be a mistake.

 

[Mash5]

What about MURS? They are 2m like in frequency and you can use external antennas.
So the disadvantages from 2m is nobody listening on the other end, limited to 2 watts, and no repeaters. It kick GMRSes butt, and don't even bring up CB.

 

[Alchemyguy]

True, for short-range truck to truck communications. But, relying on them to perform in the same manner as an equivalently powered amateur rig would be a mistake.

That's almost exactly where we landed, assuming by "short-range" you mean "I can see the other vehicle". We were less than 1km from the haul vehicle across a treed valley and we had poor comms with the GMRS radios. On previous trips with us convoying down the highway we would lose contact if there were 2 hills separating us, but could still talk if there was only 1 and we weren't far apart.

What about MURS? They are 2m like in frequency and you can use external antennas.
So the disadvantages from 2m is nobody listening on the other end, limited to 2 watts, and no repeaters. It kick GMRSes butt, and don't even bring up CB.

I have no experience with MURS, but I have an opinion.
2W isn't very much when you're trying to push through hills and trees. External antennae are very, very important and can make up for so much reduced power (see those HAM guys that QRP across the continent with 0.5W). MURS is also limited to US only operation, so if you plan on playing outside your country it's a no-go. Also, there likely isn't anybody listening on any given 2m frequency; there is likely somebody monitoring the nearest repeater, but as mikelite80 mentioned you can be tuned to other frequencies that are quiet.

I'm not sure why people resist the HAM license for these sorts of applications. The test is easy, anybody can do it. The equipment is more expensive, yes, but that's part of why it crushes blister-packed radio sets.

 

[bugnout]

GMRS freq in the US are between 450-470MHz. 70cm band in the US is 420-450MHz. Performance will be very similiar. UHF is pretty much line of sight, but performs better in-building than 2M (VHF). 2M, given the right conditions can communicate beyond line of sight (if someone is listening.)

2w is max power in Canada. only portables allowed. In the US, 5w for portables, 50w for repeaters and mobiles.

5w is probably sufficent for mobiles. Increasing beyond 5w doesn't buy you a signficant increase in range. Antenna height is more important.

Commercial grade mobiles in the 450-470MHz band are available on fleabay for around $100. Some vendors will even program them for GMRS freq for you. I have a pair of 16 channel Motorola SM120's programmed to the GMRS freq's

The average U.S. household probably doesn't own a CB or a 2M radio. You have a higher probability of them owning an FRS/GMRS portable. Same goes for casual off-roaders or Overlanders if you'd prefer.

The HAM licensing issue is really one of the big reasons why GMRS is valuable. Your GMRS license covers everyone in your household makes this a valuable tool. It would be great if the FCC would allow family licenses for 2M/70cm. I don't see that happening. I also don't see my wife, son or neighbors ever taking the technician exam.

 

[xtatik]

I'm not sure why people resist the HAM license for these sorts of applications. The test is easy, anybody can do it.

Cuz it's nerdy and uncool. It's thought that it can put a serious dent in someones perceived manhood by those who haven't got it fully intact to begin with. Or, it's cuz that test is sooo danged hard! For those suffering from this "performance problem", I view it from exactly the opposite direction.....quit weaseling around it and take the test or turn in your "man card":coffeedrink:


J/K...but seriously, your right....anybody can pass it. It's easier than any test I can remember taking in grade school. It's only 35 questions, entirely multiple choice, and the answers to the tests are plastered all over the internet. And, you can misfire on nearly a third of the answers and still pass it. How much easier could it be?

 

[off-roader]

I've resisted the 2M setup simply due to the limited number of users. Yes, there are alot of 2M users but the number of cb & gmrs users far exceeds that number. Imagine what the numbers would be if you walked into a run of the mill camping & outdoor store, and asked who owns what.

That said, all the technical advantages/disadvantages are real so I'm considering it more and more especially since many of my core group of wheeling friends now have a 2M license.

As for GMRS on the trail, it can be done effectively assuming you have an external antenna on the vehicle roof but if you rely on just the unit antenna, fogetaboutit... Range is affected by a variety of conditions and as I understand it, the max range noted is usually based on non-realistic set of operating conditions anyway.