good theory as to how it missed the mark.

[Sid Post]

Low mileage used- set your budget around 30k- tons available if you get a base model. AC, auto, rear locker, radio- everything I need/want.

I have been looking myself and used Pickups in the ~$30K range are rolling heaps around here! I'm not throwing away $30K on a used vehicle with series defects.

My list of misleading advertisements that looked good on the web and terrible in person is long. Most recently: I looked at a Ford pickup listed at $42K. What they didn't disclose was the bed had holes and pieces missing that were not shown in the deceptive photos online. They also didn't mention the $2995 "dealer prep" fee!

To be blunt, vehicle sales around here seem like the pre-housing crash days out West where people paid large amounts over the asking price of homes just to get burned when the day of reckoning came.

 

[Sid Post]

Depends on the motor, maybe.

Starter motor might be the same as a BMW one since they are using BMW engines. It may be modified to be more durable/sealed for offroading. BMW might work but not long term in harsh enviroments. Or maybe the transmission required a different offset or diameter for the ring gear and it is totally different.

Other motors like say the blower motor I doubt is BMW based, given the manufacturing capacity of the company (they probably don't spec special parts any more than they have to compared to a more mainstream automaker) it could cross to something else. If it was me I would go with something common but given that they picked BMW for the engine I wouldn't put much past them

If you destress most motors, they will run SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the same motor at a much higher state of tune.

This particular motor is in use in the Grenadier and is widely supported in multiple brands and applications. It may not be our "favorite choice" in the USA, but that doesn't mean it is not a great motor.

Modern automotive gasoline Turbo-based motors today are generally reliable and durable. No, they are not perfect and some are better than others but, issues of the past are just that, IN THE PAST.

 

[Sid Post]

Lol not that many scooters. Lots of Hyundai sedans. Had one Tesla roll in staying just up a few places from us. Tesla would definitely be a great vehicle your biggest power use would be the HVAC system lol.
The little Jimmy isn’t very common but you do see them.

I have been to Rome many times for various reasons and scooters dominated everywhere I went. If parking a FIAT Panda is a problem, I can't imagine parking a Tesla or any similarly sized vehicles at the places I went.

5 Star hotels and the suburbs will be different but, a pleb like myself isn't spending huge sums for those types of experiences in Europe!

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I have been looking myself and used Pickups in the ~$30K range are rolling heaps around here! I'm not throwing away $30K on a used vehicle with series defects.

My list of misleading advertisements that looked good on the web and terrible in person is long. Most recently: I looked at a Ford pickup listed at $42K. What they didn't disclose was the bed had holes and pieces missing that were not shown in the deceptive photos online. They also didn't mention the $2995 "dealer prep" fee!

To be blunt, vehicle sales around here seem like the pre-housing crash days out West where people paid large amounts over the asking price of homes just to get burned when the day of reckoning came.

Tons of options at 42- many with warranty and zero rust. I just did a car guru search- set the price at max 42 min 30. 4wd under 80k mile and had 500 options pop up

 

[Sid Post]

And this is an excellent point.

Buying used automatically allows you to go search for exactly what you want, and your description of a 30k truck (assuming you can source the service records) really allows you a lot of leeway to find things.

I just went off-roading Saturday. Nothing major, but we were trying to find dispersed campsites. I learned that even around here, to get off the beaten path...it's time to install my sliders. I mention this because the other rigs were a new-ish Ranger Tremor and a TRD Tundra, last gen with the V8. He does have a lift on it, but he was absolutely dragging the sliders more than I was in my GX. That will be the only limitation with a full size, but with a single cab wheelbase and decent lift, you wouldn't drag anywhere that we did.

Finding a "clean $30K" pickup for me has been like looking for a UNICORN! I'm sure there is one out there but, will I ever find it? 😮 And with maintenance records? 😔 Not likely!

Dealers around here are also adding huge fees to vehicles above the asking price. I think most local buyers are simply flipping their used pickup or SUV to a reseller so they don't have to deal with the private sale aspects.

I have had post-sale "addendums" disclosed as I was trying to sign paperwork on a vehicle for as little as $3k and as much as $10k.

When a dealer doesn't disclose these fees before getting me to sign a binding contract, I simply don't trust them any longer. It is amazing to see their reactions when I start reading the sales contract as well! Which is where I have learned about some of these extra costa addendums! 🤬

ALWAYS READ A CONTRACT BEFORE YOU SIGN IT!!! If you don't, please don't complain about being financially screwed by adding a $20K "market adjustment" and extending the loan payment period by 2 YEARS! 😮 Yep, new Ford Bronco that was sold $20 over sticker! 😭 Poor lady was really screwed financially.

 

[utherjorge]

We bought 3 new vehicles in 2023.

2023 Genesis G80
2023 2 Door Ford Bronco Badlands Sasquatch
2023 Ford AWD Maverick FX4

Let's compare the Genesis and the Bronco with almost equal MSRP list prices. MSRP at $50K for the Genesis and MSRP at $51K for the Bronco.

From a fit, finish, material quality, paintwork, design, interior, feel, seating, standard options and all the Genesis BLOWS AWAY the Bronco at the same/similar MSRP price.

Yes I know they are totally different types of vehicles HOWEVER I am making the comparison based upon the equal $50K MSRP PRICE! No comparison when it comes the the points I mentioned above.

The Big 3 OEM'S STILL have a long way to go to match the Japanese/Koreans when it comes to fit, finish, material quality, paintwork, design, interior, feel, seating, standard options. All the areas that matter to most buyers.

Go look at and drive a Genesis and YOU will see what I mean!

I have no idea what any of this means, as it's not remotely on-topic.

Your comparison makes no sense as it absolutely matters that they are different vehicles.

 

[utherjorge]

Tons of options at 42- many with warranty and zero rust. I just did a car guru search- set the price at max 42 min 30. 4wd under 80k mile and had 500 options pop up

Yep. I expect that this is exactly right. If you're willing to go further to get it...I bet you have thousands of options.

 

[Sid Post]

The Big 3 OEM'S STILL have a long way to go to match the Japanese/Koreans when it comes to fit, finish, material quality, paintwork, design, interior, feel, seating, standard options. All the areas that matter to most buyers.

Go look at and drive a Genesis and YOU will see what I mean!

EXACTLY!

The "value" and "quality" of domestic vehicles are generally lacking IMHO. Yes, there are some great examples but, most are built by bean counters trying to placate GREEN alarmists and extremists.

Just look at the Ford Mach-E and Lightning as one easy example of how this is working.

My VW Passat diesel got 55MPG in city driving! No rare Earth minerals mined by child slave labor that will be sent to China to make stuff needed for EV cars. And, where am I going to recharge one of these?

Nissan is generally pretty basic entry level these days IMHO but, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Kia, and Hyundai all make quality cars for similar or less than the similar offerings from the domestic Big 3. YMMV.

 

[utherjorge]

I have been looking myself and used Pickups in the ~$30K range are rolling heaps around here! I'm not throwing away $30K on a used vehicle with series defects.

My list of misleading advertisements that looked good on the web and terrible in person is long. Most recently: I looked at a Ford pickup listed at $42K. What they didn't disclose was the bed had holes and pieces missing that were not shown in the deceptive photos online. They also didn't mention the $2995 "dealer prep" fee!

To be blunt, vehicle sales around here seem like the pre-housing crash days out West where people paid large amounts over the asking price of homes just to get burned when the day of reckoning came.

I don't believe anything in this post. Where are you that there was a $42k pickup "missing pieces"?

 

[utherjorge]

If you destress most motors, they will run SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the same motor at a much higher state of tune.

This particular motor is in use in the Grenadier and is widely supported in multiple brands and applications. It may not be our "favorite choice" in the USA, but that doesn't mean it is not a great motor.

Modern automotive gasoline Turbo-based motors today are generally reliable and durable. No, they are not perfect and some are better than others but, issues of the past are just that, IN THE PAST.

This is also incorrect and demonstrably so.

The problem with "new" turbos is that they are being gamed to return specific mileage and/or emissions. This was not a thing in the past.

Here's one problem from one automaker regarding one engine. However...it's in most places, and these things haven't even had a chance to go for too long yet.

Why Driving Short Distances Can Kill A Newer Honda CR-V - The Autopian

Honda built a name on reliable cars, but to some owners, the brand's 1.5-liter turbocharged engine is proving problematic.

www.theautopian.com

 

[utherjorge]

EXACTLY!

The "value" and "quality" of domestic vehicles are generally lacking IMHO. Yes, there are some great examples but, most are built by bean counters trying to placate GREEN alarmists and extremists.

Just look at the Ford Mach-E and Lightning as one easy example of how this is working.

My VW Passat diesel got 55MPG in city driving! No rare Earth minerals mined by child slave labor that will be sent to China to make stuff needed for EV cars. And, where am I going to recharge one of these?

Nissan is generally pretty basic entry level these days IMHO but, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Kia, and Hyundai all make quality cars for similar or less than the similar offerings from the domestic Big 3. YMMV.

How is any of this remotely connected to the Gren? Completely off topic. Try to focus, please.

 

[Sid Post]

Tons of options at 42- many with warranty and zero rust. I just did a car guru search- set the price at max 42 min 30. 4wd under 80k mile and had 500 options pop up

When I have done searches like that, I saw what appeared to be a good vehicle but, was not what i expected when I got there in person.

Any idea why someone needs a USB port in the glove box? 🤔 Avoid cars, SUVs, and pickups that have had TUNERS ON THEM! I don't care what CARFAX says when I see this!

I thought I found a good one at CARMAX in Atlanta, I'm closest to Dallas, and I went there to see it expecting to drive it home. The rear shocks were rusty and had peeling paint but, the tuner port in the glove box was the real problem.

I also initially thought a Dodge Ram 1500 diesel would be a good option for me in the $30~$35 range. Be sure to look at the transmission and fuel injection issues! The Diesel Jeep I looked at still had an open recall 18 months later and was not legal for road use. In theory, they will get parts eventually to fix it.

Shopping used, don't rely on the CARFAX exclusively!!!

 

[Sid Post]

This is also incorrect and demonstrably so.

The problem with "new" turbos is that they are being gamed to return specific mileage and/or emissions. This was not a thing in the past.

Here's one problem from one automaker regarding one engine. However...it's in most places, and these things haven't even had a chance to go for too long yet.

Why Driving Short Distances Can Kill A Newer Honda CR-V - The Autopian

Honda built a name on reliable cars, but to some owners, the brand's 1.5-liter turbocharged engine is proving problematic.

www.theautopian.com

4 years with a Porsche Macan suggests you are also wrong.

Not all engines with turbos are good or bad. Bad examples exist just like early Ford Diesel 6.7L Gen 1's with their bad turbo bearings. This doesn't mean Gen 2 and 3 options are bad too, at least with a turbo failure!

What I found on the farm, was using the bottom 10% of a large V-8 was lower cost than using a higher MPG super 4 or 6 cylinder running in the top of its power range all the time.

Properly implemented gasoline Turbos have their place just like hybrids and other variations of EV vehicles.

I could single out a good one or bad one but, that really proves nothing about a TECHNOLOGY overall.

 

[Sid Post]

How is any of this remotely connected to the Gren? Completely off topic. Try to focus, please.

The other posts suggesting the Grenadier motor is its Achilles Heel and can't possibly be a good choice is where this started. My argument was a properly detuned BMW motor would be a fine choice is where this thread veered off. It is tuned for torque at low RPM, not a European racetrack. This to me suggests it is a great choice for the powertrain along with its ZF transmission.

Suggesting a domestic USA motor or pickup would be better is simply wrong. Suggesting the BMW can't be supported or will leave you stranded is wrong as well.

Any vehicle can have a hard failure that your local Shadetree mechanic and Napa parts store can't fix! And, a Grenadier and domestic pickup are not similar competitors IMHO.

 

[utherjorge]

The other posts suggesting the Grenadier motor is its Achilles Heel and can't possibly be a good choice is where this started. My argument was a properly detuned BMW motor would be a fine choice is where this thread veered off. It is tuned for torque at low RPM, not a European racetrack. This to me suggests it is a great choice for the powertrain along with its ZF transmission.

Suggesting a domestic USA motor or pickup would be better is simply wrong. Suggesting the BMW can't be supported or will leave you stranded is wrong as well.

Any vehicle can have a hard failure that your local Shadetree mechanic and Napa parts store can't fix! And, a Grenadier and domestic pickup are not similar competitors IMHO.

I'm thoroughly confused how you can continue to be both off topic and incorrect. You're referencing a "farm" over and over. Awesome! Except a) the Gren is a failure in the EU due to payload, and b) there's (and repeat after me on this one....) NO REPAIR PLACES IN RURAL LOCATIONS. This isn't going to be a farm vehicle, and it seems most people here recognize that.

It's completely possible that detuning the B58 will work out. However, when the nightmare that is BMW preventative maintenance is considered, and the costs post-warranty are considered...naw. Don't forget, with so few dealers, it's not like they're following the BMW model anyway, where there is the expectation of BMW service visits.

How, dear misguided friend, is a domestic pickup "Wrong"? That's a mind-blowing statement considering, you know...trucks work on farms. And even if you want to play the mall-crawler card, there are plenty of those options as well. And this is before considering that only 3/4 and full-ton pickups are the only option for heavy loads, like some of the flatbed campers that are so popular. Even as I check the site out today, there's a highlighted classified for a camper company that ONLY sells to heavy duty domestic pickups.