good theory as to how it missed the mark.

[vintageracer]

How is any of this remotely connected to the Gren? Completely off topic. Try to focus, please.

Is that all you can do is CRITICIZE EVERYBODY?

 

[utherjorge]

Is that all you can do is CRITICIZE EVERYBODY?

Sorry, bub. Were not here for the nonsense.

It's important to stay on topic. There are other forums for some of the things people have been posting here. That's all.

 

[calicamper]

I have been to Rome many times for various reasons and scooters dominated everywhere I went. If parking a FIAT Panda is a problem, I can't imagine parking a Tesla or any similarly sized vehicles at the places I went.

5 Star hotels and the suburbs will be different but, a pleb like myself isn't spending huge sums for those types of experiences in Europe!

I thought you were responding to my Costa Rica note. Currently in Costa Rica. No scooters here some nice 250 dirt bikes tho.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Any idea why someone needs a USB port in the glove box?

To charge a phone out of sight similar to how they have had usb ports in consoles for like 15 years. I also like to stream music off a usb, great place out of the way place.

I actually have my USB charger ports mounted under the dash under the glove box. When I need them a 6' cord will reach pretty much anywhere I need to go, if I don't need them they basically don't exist.

The other posts suggesting the Grenadier motor is its Achilles Heel and can't possibly be a good choice is where this started. My argument was a properly detuned BMW motor would be a fine choice is where this thread veered off. It is tuned for torque at low RPM, not a European racetrack. This to me suggests it is a great choice for the powertrain along with its ZF transmission.

Suggesting a domestic USA motor or pickup would be better is simply wrong. Suggesting the BMW can't be supported or will leave you stranded is wrong as well.

Any vehicle can have a hard failure that your local Shadetree mechanic and Napa parts store can't fix! And, a Grenadier and domestic pickup are not similar competitors IMHO.

First off motors are electric, engines are gas, diesel, steam etc.

It will be a freak in a BMW dealer, the more they deviate from the regular BMW engine the weirder it will be. If they use a special starter motor BMW may very well not be able to obtain it. Your detuned engine won't be operating with a BMW tune.

Luckily for local dealers I have Denver, Dallas, Atlanta and Chicago service centers to choose from...

I'm thoroughly confused how you can continue to be both off topic and incorrect. You're referencing a "farm" over and over. Awesome! Except a) the Gren is a failure in the EU due to payload, and b) there's (and repeat after me on this one....) NO REPAIR PLACES IN RURAL LOCATIONS. This isn't going to be a farm vehicle, and it seems most people here recognize that.

It's completely possible that detuning the B58 will work out. However, when the nightmare that is BMW preventative maintenance is considered, and the costs post-warranty are considered...naw. Don't forget, with so few dealers, it's not like they're following the BMW model anyway, where there is the expectation of BMW service visits.

How, dear misguided friend, is a domestic pickup "Wrong"? That's a mind-blowing statement considering, you know...trucks work on farms. And even if you want to play the mall-crawler card, there are plenty of those options as well. And this is before considering that only 3/4 and full-ton pickups are the only option for heavy loads, like some of the flatbed campers that are so popular. Even as I check the site out today, there's a highlighted classified for a camper company that ONLY sells to heavy duty domestic pickups.

Europe is a different world, if you ever watch Clarkson Farms on Amazon he is hauling sheep around with an older Range Rover in a cute little trailer... you never see that in the US. So they may be a farm vehicle over there, especially if they make base models.

In the US I suspect we will only get top trim stuff like our current Land Cruiser and Rover options.

And nobody uses SUV's in the US as a farm vehicle anyway. The little pickup that hasn't been released yet looks neat but it won't fair any better as a farm vehicle here.

 

[utherjorge]

In the US I suspect we will only get top trim stuff like our current Land Cruiser and Rover options.

And nobody uses SUV's in the US as a farm vehicle anyway. The little pickup that hasn't been released yet looks neat but it won't fair any better as a farm vehicle here.

I believe I've read in multiple places that the Chicken Tax will be a problem, so they'll have to work around that somehow. 25% is a steep hit, even if INEOS claims they'll pay that tax. I don't think the gov't cares for that sort of thing, but we shall see.

In a place like this (ExPo) where payload is supposedly a big deal...1841 total for the Quartermaster is going to be a thing. Better than a Gladiator, but as we've seen, since the Glad isn't exactly impressive in most ways, that's not a great thing to chirp about.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

In a place like this (ExPo) where payload is supposedly a big deal...1841 total for the Quartermaster is going to be a thing. Better than a Gladiator, but as we've seen, since the Glad isn't exactly impressive in most ways, that's not a great thing to chirp about.

Eh, par for the course for a midsize and even a great many half tons. Not particularly noteworthy either good or bad imo.

 

[utherjorge]

Eh, par for the course for a midsize and even a great many half tons. Not particularly noteworthy either good or bad imo.

I would imagine the reliability is an issue for it as well. It's cratered as far as sales go, but I don't think those concerns tie into Gren issues for the purposes of this forum. One possible connection: for what people might be trying to do with it (like towing, which it's really bad at) a full size truck is "better."

 

[zimm]

If you destress most motors, they will run SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the same motor at a much higher state of tune.

This particular motor is in use in the Grenadier and is widely supported in multiple brands and applications. It may not be our "favorite choice" in the USA, but that doesn't mean it is not a great motor.

Modern automotive gasoline Turbo-based motors today are generally reliable and durable. No, they are not perfect and some are better than others but, issues of the past are just that, IN THE PAST.

none of these ice engines made today are are stressed. this isnt 1985. the design metallurgy and machining on any of these pieces can handle 2x the highpo editions manufactures put out. The hp all comes down the accounting. when the same block ends up in both a golf and an a6, there has to something to differentiate the two for the customer paying 2.5 times the price, and that is HP. The other question is weight. can the suspension and the rest of the driveline on the lightened up econo car handle the power? In the grens case, they chose the lighter version of a transmission for some reason, and its that they are protecting with the power tune.

Here's whats not happening. no one is shaving 10% off the peak output because thats going to make a rats ass difference as to how long the internals on a block will last.

The only engine part I still give a side eye too, are 10yo turbos out of warranty. heat kills. I was thinking of getting back into a G, albeit used, and the g63 was off the table.

 

[Sid Post]

I don't believe anything in this post. Where are you that there was a $42k pickup "missing pieces"?

Ford dealership in the DFW (Texas) metroplex on their trade-in USED lot. 2020 4x4 F-350 where I inspected the rear tire from the bed of the pickup! 🤬

 

[zimm]

First off motors are electric, engines are gas, diesel, steam etc.

finally. thank you.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ford dealership in the DFW (Texas) metroplex on their trade-in USED lot. 2020 4x4 F-350 where I inspected the rear tire from the bed of the pickup! 🤬

Because of what?

 

[Sid Post]

To charge a phone out of sight similar to how they have had usb ports in consoles for like 15 years. I also like to stream music off a usb, great place out of the way place.

Most people will use the center console for things like that. Reaching across a vehicle to open a glove box to access your cell phone while driving is simply crazy and dangerous. My vehicle has USB ports for music and charging on the dash and in the center console.

With said USB port on the dash and center console, what purpose to does a hidden USB port inside a glove box really have? Most modern vehicles have charging ports in the center dash and center console for a reason. If a glove box port made sense, why don't manufacturers offer them?

If you don't care about the damage of an aftermarket tuner some idiot used to damage a motor and transmission, GO FOR it and please don't whine when they fail. Granted, diesel pickups are the worst for this in the area I live in (more rural and farm-oriented) it is also an issue in larger cities with people going to aftermarket shops for all sorts of BLING to impress their Social Media friends.

I actually have my USB charger ports mounted under the dash under the glove box. When I need them a 6' cord will reach pretty much anywhere I need to go, if I don't need them they basically don't exist.

I still would encourage people with setups like this to look at the vehicle condition for signs of aftermarket tuner use to help avoid serious mechanical problems. You do you, I'll do me, and avoid vehicles that look like this.

First off motors are electric, engines are gas, diesel, steam etc.

Word Police withstanding, motor or engine are common enough I don't think anyone confuses a Diesel with an EV! 🤣

It will be a freak in a BMW dealer, the more they deviate from the regular BMW engine the weirder it will be. If they use a special starter motor BMW may very well not be able to obtain it. Your detuned engine won't be operating with a BMW tune.

It's a crate motor. It won't freak out any reasonable mechanic. If it does, I don't want them wrenching on my vehicle!

Luckily for local dealers I have Denver, Dallas, Atlanta and Chicago service centers to choose from...

INEOS is expanding into USA coverage. While I don't expect them to exceed Land Rover for example, how many good dealers are needed in any reasonable service area?

I don't hear Porsche owners complaining that their 911 or Macan can't be fixed in rural America.

Europe is a different world, if you ever watch Clarkson Farms on Amazon he is hauling sheep around with an older Range Rover in a cute little trailer... you never see that in the US. So they may be a farm vehicle over there, especially if they make base models.

And, don't confuse television shows with reality!!! I liked Top Gear and Fifth Gear in years past but, they aren't 'documentaries'! Clarkson for example is more of a Social Media personality looking for 'clicks' and is not about unbiased automotive accuracy.

The Grenadier has enough payload and trailering capacity for most people who don't really need a 1-ton dually diesel with a >400HP and >1,000ft-lbs of torque to pull a mobile mansion or their daughter's horse!

Personally, the articulated ~90Hp Mercedes tractor I used in the early 90's in Germany was the bomb for use on the dairy. Cutting hay, field use in general, going to the grocery store, etc. all were super easy with this awesome little beast! I loved that tractor and its full coil suspension was a joy to use working in hay fields over there or on public roads doing ~45MPH.

In the US I suspect we will only get top trim stuff like our current Land Cruiser and Rover options.

WRONG! They will build it any way you want it based on available options. Want a base model with Rough Pack only? Sure, no problem!

I have seen pretty base models in Dallas that looked like they had finished a circuit in rural Oklahoma in the early Spring, covered in mud with base steel wheels and a brush guard. Could have been an oilfield owner's Grenadier or something similar but, they are obviously not a lux Land Rover vehicle.

And nobody uses SUV's in the US as a farm vehicle anyway. The little pickup that hasn't been released yet looks neat 7but it won't fair any better as a farm vehicle here.

Again, you make a statement that is FALSE. I won't argue it is best but, plenty of farmers and ranchers use a Tahoe or similar vehicle in the Winter to chop ice on a pond or put range cubes in a feed trough for cattle. In particular, I see people with horses in an SUV with a bumper pull horse trailer frequently.

 

[Sid Post]

I believe I've read in multiple places that the Chicken Tax will be a problem, so they'll have to work around that somehow. 25% is a steep hit, even if INEOS claims they'll pay that tax. I don't think the gov't cares for that sort of thing, but we shall see.

In a place like this (ExPo) where payload is supposedly a big deal...1841 total for the Quartermaster is going to be a thing. Better than a Gladiator, but as we've seen, since the Glad isn't exactly impressive in most ways, that's not a great thing to chirp about.

I shopped a Gladiator and was VERY UNIMPRESSED. The JLU is a much better option for me personally.

While some people might want a mobile mansion on a Ford Super Duty platform, that's not me.

My experience on a farm in Oklahoma for many years suggested a lighter vehicle is better for mud and sand whether I have a winch or tractor to pull me out or not!

 

[Sid Post]

I believe I've read in multiple places that the Chicken Tax will be a problem, so they'll have to work around that somehow. 25% is a steep hit, even if INEOS claims they'll pay that tax. I don't think the gov't cares for that sort of thing, but we shall see.

In a place like this (ExPo) where payload is supposedly a big deal...1841 total for the Quartermaster is going to be a thing. Better than a Gladiator, but as we've seen, since the Glad isn't exactly impressive in most ways, that's not a great thing to chirp about.

Chicken Tax or not I think is OBE since this is NOT A PICKUP!

In terms of payload, that is better than almost any mid-size domestic USA pickup and most half-ton full-size options!

 

[Sid Post]

The only engine part I still give a side eye too, are 10yo turbos out of warranty. heat kills. I was thinking of getting back into a G, albeit used, and the g63 was off the table.

Older gas turbo engines in particular were more problematic. If a used Turbo Ex-German military Unimog turned up in my driveway, I'd be ecstatic!

A 20 year old Italian supercar might be pretty to look at but, I don't want to support one of those high upkeep geriatric cars either turbo or not!