good theory as to how it missed the mark.

[Sid Post]

Understood - just saying it's not going to be done by an average or even above average mechanic and nobody would recommend pushing them to double + service limits on a rig like this if you are truly driving it in remote areas....you'll want to stay on top of recommended service intervals, or at least I would. I'd also think a rig possibly driven at high capacity, in loose soft sand other other difficult conditions, would put even more strain on an engine given the engine was designed and is used in lightweight road cars vs a heavy offroad vehicle.

We must know service requirements by now? People have them....what does Ineos say?

Tuning the engine to meet the service needs of Grenadier is a given. We aren't talking about a Beemer built for the race track here. Detuned for high torque will mitigate a lof of concerns with wear and tear on the motor IMHO.

 

[Sid Post]

There are only a few thousand G Wagons sold in USA per year. Depending when in recent history 1.5K to 8.5K units

MB G-class vehicles lost the reason the older G-Wagens were popular. Land Rover has done the same.

Not everyone wants a PAVEMENT PRINCESS for mall crawling and country clubs!

 

[Sid Post]

It’s about fun, driving as I see fit, and hopefully selecting a vehicle I can drive for 20 years.

I’ll add that ford/gm/stellantis are the Fashion Plate. They’re non-starters. I don’t even look at their products.

Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep under FIAT and STELLANTIS ownership has been a disaster for them IMHO. As much as I want to like the Jeep Rubicon and Grand Cherokee, I just don't see the attraction, especially at the MSRP they ask! I can get a Grenadier for essentially the same money OTD and there is no comparison in terms of build quality and durability.

To me, the Chevrolet Colorado Bison is the new "Jeep Rubicon"! Same MSRP and much better build quality and features!

 

[Sid Post]

This is kind of a prove for how much of a practical vehicle the trucks are. Everywhere.
Their readily availability, price and relative comfort is hard to overlook.
Even in the EU, where there is a less of truck culture compared to the US/AUS, you still can get a diesel truck with a stick shift and the modern amenities cheaper than IG.
It's great to feel sentimental about the IG and what it represents, but practically speaking, a Ford with a locker in the US and a diesel HiLux in Australia will always be the practical choice for the middle class.
Maybe the IG is not even a middle-class / working-class SUV and only just appears to carry the attributes of a working-class vehicle.

There is a real hard price limit for some people, especially those with families. Now, add some multi-car families and the cost differences become so vast the expensive SUV and Overlanders are simply not an option.

In Europe, there is a reason why VW, Opel, Peugeot, and others are popular for the everyday vehicle choice. There are also lifestyle reasons too!

In the USA, affordability is the reason many small pickups, SUV, cross-overs, and similar are sold.

And, this totally ignores ownership costs like maintenance, fuel costs, insurance, and government fees like registration! 30MGP and 12MPG (or less) really impacts the cost of travel too! That's why I put so many miles on my Honda Accord I4M6 (2.4L manual transmission) plus it is a fun drive whether going to the grocery store or a National Park! Too bad it won't take through deep and light mud. ☹️

 

[Sid Post]

There were a few Ranger Raptors in Italy during the trip I did last June. I was surprised how many we did see. However they were huge in comparison to most vehicles being used.

In the land of the Scooter, even a Suzuki Jimmny is a large vehicle!

Personally, I find parking in Europe to generally be a miserable and expensive irritation! I love the inter-city trains and city rail services!

 

[Sid Post]

There's no shortage of legitimate criticisms of what came out of the oven here, but, much of it is turning into hyperbole unless the only acceptable answer to world travel is Toyota.

How many of the people buying an "Overlander" travel outside of their "home" continent? I would say Europeans generally are the most apt to do so in a wheeled vehicle they own. Africans do as well but generally for much different reasons.

It is pretty rare to see a US Citizen born and raised in the USA travel overseas in a wheeled vehicle of any type. The vast majority don't travel outside the USA even by air travel for vacation though, that is starting to change some with more affluent citizens.

 

[Sid Post]

Those engines were tested extensively by the company that designed and built them - they know the engineering / design limits and have a proven track record. It's a bit over the top to assume it WONT work, I agree, but lets be honest, they are not using the engine because it was best suited to the job....it was available at the right price, but it was never and has never been designed for how it is being used.

Do you see big mile BMW's that have been used in harsh environments like you do Mercs? Nope. I'd say it's rare to see big mile BMW's in general as they get very expensive to maintain, we've had (2), both have been reliable but little things go wrong and they are not nearly as repairable as other vehicles. The secondary market has spoken to a certain extent as well, high mile used BMW's have very very little resale outside of the specialty cars.

Many rigs as good as Toyota IMO here in NA, like any of the full size pickups - very large but relatively simply built.

BMW drivetrains are really good and are generally very reliable, especially the ones tuned for long duty cycles.

It is the electronics and body hardware that generally does a BMW car in. I'm not saying the drivetrain is never the issue as some BMW motors have had issues but, generally, that is not what drives BMW ownership costs up to sky-high levels.

 

[Sid Post]

I have never seen a G outside of city limits.

As someone who works in the auto industry the thought of one coming in makes me cringe. Nobody will have anything for it in town.

Kinda like Beemer, might as well drag it back up to the city.

Parts will be somewhat better for Toyota but yeah, still an hour from a dealer.

In the us in rural areas... imports are not well supported at all.

A Ineos while cool... might as well be a Romulan Warbird.

Not trying to be elitist or whatever, I would love to sneak up on a old Discovery but it's the same story. I will either I will either have to figure out to do my own work on it (which wouldnt bother me) or I will have to pay someone else to figure it out.

Imo for long distance offroad travel the old adage of "when I'm Rome do what the Romans do" rings especially true.

Grenadier looks cool and imo has a ton of potential, it is going to have to gain a lot of traction before I would make the jump even if I had the money for it.

A bit off the mark IMHO. Do I want to go to a BMW dealership for a motor part? Not really but, it is not like I am ordering a spare part of the UAE or Bahrain either.

Yes, in rural America, an old Ford, Chevy, or, Dodge will be a lot easier to support, whether it is a good choice for the job or not!

 

[LocoCoyote]

The assumption that it “missed the mark” is flawed. I think (as an owner) that all in all it hits the mark quite well. Perfect? Well, no. Delivers? Absolutely.

 

[Sid Post]

Are they limited though? I have started to look at Superduty singles cabs. Solid axles, rear locker, amazing payload, good reliability in the gas versions, I don’t think a foreign truck matches it.

If you are looking at F350/Ram3500/3500HD style vehicles, in Europe you will be in the small commercial truck segment.

The modern "1-ton" Diesel pickup segment in the USA is pushing 1000ft-lbs of torque and is rated to pull trailers over 30,000 pounds (~15,000Kgs) which are getting into Class 6 commercial truck load ranges.

A class 6 Peterbilt and a similar 1-ton dually pickup also cost close to the same as well!

In terms of availability, the big Three auto strikes pushed availability back a good bit. Dealer lots around me are pretty thin. However, if I ordered one, I would have it in ~3 months or so.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

If you are looking at F350/Ram3500/3500HD style vehicles, in Europe you will be in the small commercial truck segment.

The modern "1-ton" Diesel pickup segment in the USA is pushing 1000ft-lbs of torque and is rated to pull trailers over 30,000 pounds (~15,000Kgs) which are getting into Class 6 commercial truck load ranges.

A class 6 Peterbilt and a similar 1-ton dually pickup also cost close to the same as well!

In terms of availability, the big Three auto strikes pushed availability back a good bit. Dealer lots around me are pretty thin. However, if I ordered one, I would have it in ~3 months or so.

Low mileage used- set your budget around 30k- tons available if you get a base model. AC, auto, rear locker, radio- everything I need/want.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

A bit off the mark IMHO. Do I want to go to a BMW dealership for a motor part? Not really but, it is not like I am ordering a spare part of the UAE or Bahrain either.

Depends on the motor, maybe.

Starter motor might be the same as a BMW one since they are using BMW engines. It may be modified to be more durable/sealed for offroading. BMW might work but not long term in harsh enviroments. Or maybe the transmission required a different offset or diameter for the ring gear and it is totally different.

Other motors like say the blower motor I doubt is BMW based, given the manufacturing capacity of the company (they probably don't spec special parts any more than they have to compared to a more mainstream automaker) it could cross to something else. If it was me I would go with something common but given that they picked BMW for the engine I wouldn't put much past them

 

[calicamper]

In the land of the Scooter, even a Suzuki Jimmny is a large vehicle!

Personally, I find parking in Europe to generally be a miserable and expensive irritation! I love the inter-city trains and city rail services!

Lol not that many scooters. Lots of Hyundai sedans. Had one Tesla roll in staying just up a few places from us. Tesla would definitely be a great vehicle your biggest power use would be the HVAC system lol.
The little Jimmy isn’t very common but you do see them.

 

[utherjorge]

Low mileage used- set your budget around 30k- tons available if you get a base model. AC, auto, rear locker, radio- everything I need/want.

And this is an excellent point.

Buying used automatically allows you to go search for exactly what you want, and your description of a 30k truck (assuming you can source the service records) really allows you a lot of leeway to find things.

I just went off-roading Saturday. Nothing major, but we were trying to find dispersed campsites. I learned that even around here, to get off the beaten path...it's time to install my sliders. I mention this because the other rigs were a new-ish Ranger Tremor and a TRD Tundra, last gen with the V8. He does have a lift on it, but he was absolutely dragging the sliders more than I was in my GX. That will be the only limitation with a full size, but with a single cab wheelbase and decent lift, you wouldn't drag anywhere that we did.

 

[vintageracer]

We bought 3 new vehicles in 2023.

2023 Genesis G80
2023 2 Door Ford Bronco Big Bend Sasquatch
2023 Ford AWD Maverick FX4

Let's compare the Genesis and the Bronco with almost equal MSRP list prices. MSRP at $50K for the Genesis and MSRP at $51K for the Bronco.

From a fit, finish, material quality, paintwork, design, interior, feel, seating, standard options and all the Genesis BLOWS AWAY the Bronco at the same/similar MSRP price.

Yes I know they are totally different types of vehicles HOWEVER I am making the comparison based upon the equal $50K MSRP PRICE! No comparison when it comes the the points I mentioned above.

The Big 3 OEM'S STILL have a long way to go to match the Japanese/Koreans when it comes to fit, finish, material quality, paintwork, design, interior, feel, seating, standard options. All the areas that matter to most buyers.

Go look at and drive a Genesis and YOU will see what I mean!