good theory as to how it missed the mark.

[luckyjoe]

It’s the same buyer is I’ll I’m saying- someone with disposable income that wants a hey look at me vehicle

I think these buyers will surface once they see the initial vehicles hit the ground. The Grenadier wasn't really advertised in a traditional automotive manner and traction came from off-road-specific online channels. I would guess most of those look-at-me's are not even aware of the Grenadier or its feature set, but they will certainly want the upscale model Ineos says is coming.

The question is when those 7000 potential sales are done, will they be able to sell more. Or is it like Lotus who had a busy first year with a model in the USA, but once everyone who wanted one, got one. No one else cared.

Yes, time will tell.

 

[nickw]

Honestly, most people I’ve spoke to.
Don’t really see the point in it.
Even the car magazines that were keen to see it launched have given it 3-3.5 out of 5 stars on reviews.

It’s almost £70,000 for a car that can’t actually be used for the purpose it’s maker claimed it would be for.

Even Ineos themselves on the run up to it being launched couldn’t give potential owners a straight and honest answer about commercial use bar “ it will be fine, maybe, we think. Please buy it anyway”
So loads of orders got cancelled.

Why spend so much money on a car that can’t meet the well known and established rules for the tax breaks.

Now in the USA you’ll have different rules etc so that won’t be a worry and will explain the better sales of it.
The question is when those 7000 potential sales are done, will they be able to sell more. Or is it like Lotus who had a busy first year with a model in the USA, but once everyone who wanted one, got one. No one else cared.

The last point is a good one - I think it's niche enough that most common folks will have no clue what it is. Same story for the 70 series IMO, people complain and want Toyota to release a $50k+ truck in the US that has 130 hp, roll up windows and rides like a Panzer.....there are probably a few thousand people that want one and even less that would step up and actually buy one and once they had, no market after that...

 

[zimm]

I think the unfortunate reality is, Landrover has the market, unless it becomes cool for the country club set. That worked for both the Range Rover and the G wagon, but it happened organically and slowly. They were low volume trucks that became the symbol for, "yes I'm rich, but I'm rugged cool rich". Then they became a must have at the club.

If IG has the pockets to survive low volume years, that may happen. I think something a little more edgy and spartan and more payload, fully equipped at 70g usd, to keep it as an expensive ranch implement, would have done it better in the long run.

 

[plh]

I think the unfortunate reality is, Landrover has the market, unless it becomes cool for the country club set. That worked for both the Range Rover and the G wagon, but it happened organically and slowly. They were low volume trucks that became the symbol for, "yes I'm rich, but I'm rugged cool rich". Then they became a must have at the club.

If IG has the pockets to survive low volume years, that may happen. I think something a little more edgy and spartan and more payload, fully equipped at 70g usd, to keep it as an expensive ranch implement, would have done it better in the long run.

There are only a few thousand G Wagons sold in USA per year. Depending when in recent history 1.5K to 8.5K units

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I think the unfortunate reality is, Landrover has the market, unless it becomes cool for the country club set. That worked for both the Range Rover and the G wagon, but it happened organically and slowly. They were low volume trucks that became the symbol for, "yes I'm rich, but I'm rugged cool rich". Then they became a must have at the club.

If IG has the pockets to survive low volume years, that may happen. I think something a little more edgy and spartan and more payload, fully equipped at 70g usd, to keep it as an expensive ranch implement, would have done it better in the long run.

Nothing says rugged rich like a pink wrap and chrome 22’s …..😆

 

[nickw]

I think the unfortunate reality is, Landrover has the market, unless it becomes cool for the country club set. That worked for both the Range Rover and the G wagon, but it happened organically and slowly. They were low volume trucks that became the symbol for, "yes I'm rich, but I'm rugged cool rich". Then they became a must have at the club.

If IG has the pockets to survive low volume years, that may happen. I think something a little more edgy and spartan and more payload, fully equipped at 70g usd, to keep it as an expensive ranch implement, would have done it better in the long run.

Both of those rigs are backed by companies that sell high volume cars + the dealer network to support. I bet Merc doesn't make much money on the Gwagons overall, but it's a status and I bet bolsters the brand recognition which is worth something....IG doesn't have that luxury, they need to make money, they don't have mass produced cars to help cover margins to your point of low volume years.

I still think they may have been able to cut costs by using domestic drivetrain; GM LS engine, GM trans, Dana Axles, Dana Tcase and to your point - stripping it down even more.

 

[luckyjoe]

I still think they may have been able to cut costs by using domestic drivetrain; GM LS engine, GM trans, Dana Axles, Dana Tcase and to your point - stripping it down even more.

And then what? Drive a Tahoe?

 

[zimm]

Both of those rigs are backed by companies that sell high volume cars + the dealer network to support. I bet Merc doesn't make much money on the Gwagons overall, but it's a status and I bet bolsters the brand recognition which is worth something....IG doesn't have that luxury, they need to make money, they don't have mass produced cars to help cover margins to your point of low volume years.

I still think they may have been able to cut costs by using domestic drivetrain; GM LS engine, GM trans, Dana Axles, Dana Tcase and to your point - stripping it down even more.

Merc was gonna cancel the G multiple times over the past two decades, but per unit they make a retarded amount of money and they cancelled the cancellation multiple times. Back in the 90s you got a truck with a c class interior for 5x the c class price. It’s a cash cow.

Mercedes has never done the “loss leader“ marketing. That was strictly a “big three” philosophy.

 

[nickw]

And then what? Drive a Tahoe?

I'd rather drive a Tahoe than a Supra.

In all seriousness it's a domestic drivetrain used in HD rigs with wide support in N America & reasonably easy for a home mechanic to play with.

 

[calicamper]

I think the unfortunate reality is, Landrover has the market, unless it becomes cool for the country club set. That worked for both the Range Rover and the G wagon, but it happened organically and slowly. They were low volume trucks that became the symbol for, "yes I'm rich, but I'm rugged cool rich". Then they became a must have at the club.

If IG has the pockets to survive low volume years, that may happen. I think something a little more edgy and spartan and more payload, fully equipped at 70g usd, to keep it as an expensive ranch implement, would have done it better in the long run.

Yup. They had to crank the power, lux out the interior also. Its hard to justify a military utility vehicle to the wife when the S series sedan you already have does the same job way better!

I could buy one but honestly my giant lazy boy on wheels Ford Expedition Platinum does everything I need better than the Grend would.

 

[nickw]

Yup. They had to crank the power, lux out the interior also. Its hard to justify a military utility vehicle to the wife when the S series sedan you already have does the same job way better!

I could buy one but honestly my giant lazy boy on wheels Ford Expedition Platinum does everything I need better than the Grend would.

Ford Expo is massively underappreciated here - F150 gets love not sure why folks sleep on the Expo.

 

[workerdrone]

If I had an Expedition I'd refer to the doors and hatch as 'portals'

 

[onemanarmy]

Ford Expo is massively underappreciated here - F150 gets love not sure why folks sleep on the Expo.

they are about the same size, same engine/trans, and the truck bed is super helpful

 

[nickw]

they are about the same size, same engine/trans, and the truck bed is super helpful

But many like SUV's - if you can appreciate a F150 as a truck I don't see why folks wouldn't appreciate a Expo as an alternative to all the SUV's folks buy....

 

[calicamper]

But many like SUV's - if you can appreciate a F150 as a truck I don't see why folks wouldn't appreciate a Expo as an alternative to all the SUV's folks buy....

Precisely why I got one. Could use a F150 but needed 8 seats. The heavy Tow Expedition is definitely different vehicle than the standard version in how Ford packages them.

Cost!!!!! Is a huge factor!!!! You can buy a fully kitted F150 for less than a fairly basic Limited trim Expedition.

The standard Expedition is sort of the awd mini Van alternative that comes with a full sized spare tire😆. The heavy tow Expedition has some considerable differences that easily place it into the F150 zone of work capability like proper 2spd transfer case, Heavy cooling system, 3.73 HD gear set, etc. The two might look the same but there are quite a few differences.

But cost is huge.
When I bought in 2019 the lower trim versions with lower msrp were actually pretty rare and dealers were not dealing. I found a white Limited with most of the options I liked wasn’t easy dealer wanted msrp plus $1000 pushing it to $78,000

My local dealer didn’t have any limiteds, had one of the first stealth packages which was just a jazzed up basic limited. Then they had a pile of Platinum trims fully kitted out like 12 of them!!! The MSRP was 85k!!!

I got my Platinum for 75k then tacked on the $3500 Ford cash deal. I bought a freaking Platinum loaded to the max for nearly $7000 less!! Than the limited I liked with some extras 😆.

Yeah the price of these full sized SUVs really impact how people shop them. They are not cheap!! Ford even started selling a version without the 3rd row and dropped the price some. Obviously they knew price was a big factor