Hard Sided Campers: Winter Living while Plugged In

[GodwinAustin]

Hi Y'all, looking to get some Beta from those who have wintered in their hard-sided camper while plugged in. My camper is a 2006 Bigfoot 1500 9.3SB, and I am in NW Wyoming where winter nights are routinely in the single digits and sometimes below 0.

I will be utilizing a dry-den mat from Ravenwolf marine beneath the mattress, as well as cracking a window to control humidity, although it is very dry here. The plan is to be plugged in and to run a radiant space heater at all times, as well as a small 250 watt cermaic heater under the sink area near all the pipes and water heater (I was also wondering if I should try and run an additional 250W heater in the grey/black tank/valve area at the outside access panel as it seems it may be a good idea to keep that area heated.

I would like to maintain water use by using a heated hose, and keeping both tank valves permanently open as I do have a sewer hookup where I will be parked. I know the typical route is to winterize and use portable water but I would like to maintain water systems if possible.

When I take the camper for trips, I would likely use an air compressor to clear the system as well as purging the hot water heater before travel. I do have a second car, so the camper will stay parked most of the time, except for ski trips, winter camping trips etc.

Any tips and experiential mistakes and successes would be appreciated.

 

[workerdrone]

Bigfeet are solid and generally well insulated but I'm sure you can see if you inspect closely that there are some serious gaps and omissions in the insulation that leave the plumbing exposed in places. Like completely uninsulated exterior access doors. At least in the ones I've seen.

I'd consider attacking those first and maybe if you can track down a FLIR camera to borrow or rent for the final touches it would pay some dividends?

 

[NOPEC]

I had a 2008 8'2", pretty much the same camper as yours and we used it a lot during the winter. As workerdrone mentioned, great camper but a lot of their insulating efforts seem like an afterthought, after they had cut all the holes in the shell.

Here are a few thoughts.

First, the additional insulation you put in will help to limit it but you are still going to have considerable thermal transfer. I had the "double" windows but still had huge heat loss/ condensation on the glass and especially, the aluminium frames which are a direct conduit to the outside. You can help with the heat loss in both the windows and the roof vents (especially that 24" sq. single plastic pane monster over the bed) by sewing up oversized, custom fit for each window/vent covers and attaching them with industrial stick on Velcro. We made ours out of landscape fabric and Reflectix (both from the local building store). We only used Reflectix because of its flexibility not it's insulating value which is pretty low. The Velcro makes them easy to remove or adjust for venting and looking out at blizzards. Make them large enough so they actually cover the frames of the windows/vents.

When attempting to seal up the various hatches and other uninsulated surfaces that are exposed to the outside, we used 1/2" solid Styrofoam sheet. Not the best R value (but better than Reflectix by a long shot) but you will find that space to put in insulation is going to be a problem and this thinner product lends itself fairly well to confined spaces. Of course, thicker would be better. You can also cut channels in it, shave it down, etc. for a custom fit just using using a utility knife or melting it with a soldering iron.

Your biggest freezing liability as you are aware of is the kitchen/bathroom/holding tanks wall. I had so called heated tanks with ducting from the furnace to that space but it only worked with the propane furnace running. So as you pointed out, you must either get heated air from the main cabin into this space or have a dedicated heater. The valves will freeze and potentially crack not to mention your waterlines to the toilet and vanity sink. jury rigging computer fans or the like is probably more complicated than just having a dedicated heater. A digital thermometer with a remote sensor could be used to monitor things in that area during colder weather.

One place to be diligent in your insulating project, is in your propane compartment. Mine had a plastic liner at the back wall which abutted directly to an interior panel wall, no factory insulation what so ever.

Lastly, the best purchase you could make for this project is an AC, good quality household dehumidifier. They are heavy, bulky and a pain to store but are worth their weight in gold. Once a week when you are going to be away for a good 8 or more hours, toss in the dehumidifier, open all of your cabinets, raise up the foot of the bed on blocks, close all the windows and vents, crank up the heat and walk away. You will be amazed at the amount of moisture it will suck out of the camper, despite your best efforts at ventilation. We found that the inevitable cumulative dampness gets to you over the long haul if you don't do this.

 

[GodwinAustin]

@NOPEC thanks for that reply....lots of good info in there. Will I need to run a de-humidifier even in the dry climate of Wyoming?

Based on your reply it does seem a good idea to run those 2 little 250W heaters in both tank compartments as well as under-sink area.

also if the valves are left open (attached to a sewer connection) are they still in danger of freeze damage ?

 

[NOPEC]

@NOPEC thanks for that reply....lots of good info in there. Will I need to run a de-humidifier even in the dry climate of Wyoming?

Based on your reply it does seem a good idea to run those 2 little 250W heaters in both tank compartments as well as under-sink area.

also if the valves are left open (attached to a sewer connection) are they still in danger of freeze damage ?

As far as the outside relative humidity, I am not sure. I imagine you are higher in elevation and much dryer than us, so it may well make quite a difference. That being said, the humidity is mostly inside the cabin (caused by your just being there, creating and using hot water as well as, cooking with propane) and I think you still may be pleasantly surprised with the amount of water you can remove. The key is getting the air temperature as high as you can while using the dehumidifier.

I forgot about the valves being open most of the time. I suspect you are fine while hooked up. I coat all of the friction surfaces on my valve gates (as well as the toilet gate) with Diving Silicone Grease which helps I think. The only time the valves might be a problem is when you are travelling in the winter. That is when I had problems/cracking with mine but it was on a non-bigfoot TC in really cold weather. Of course, you will want your sewer outflow pipe to be as vertical as possible and it might be worthwhile to try and rig up something that would use straight wall pipe as opposed to the standard accordion/corrugated type of RV sewer material.

 

[Christian P.]

Do it. We spent a winter in our Bigfoot 2500 in Tahoe while fixing up our house. Not as cold as Wyoming but we had no problem with the furnace. On the other hand we had a lot of (human) condensation, and it's dry in Tahoe too.

 

[OverlandNA]

Every breath you take puts moisture in the air...

 

[simple]

If you have the space next to your camper an ice fishing tent might be a good addition. You could use it as an intermediate semi outdoor extra space and with a heater in it you could also use it to dry gear.

 

[GodwinAustin]

The more challenging aspect in all of this would be unplugging and getting away for a weekend to go camping/snowmobiling/skiing and since it gets so cold up here - sometimes -10 to -20 at night it might freeze everything.

Obviously much easier to run without water, but man a hot shower while backcountry skiing would be really nice.

 

[.fisher]

'99 Bigfoot 2500 owner here who's primary use is a basecamp for ski touring / chasing storms. My 2500 has done plenty of nights in the Tetons and elsewhere at negative temps and teens during the day. This thread has some great discussion on the topic from another ski nut. Since I don't have a heated shop, my camper lives outside. I've also gone back and forth on many of the issues you've mentioned such as:

• What to do with liquid in various tanks while parked with shore power?
  • Keep the camper's propane heater running at lowest temp to keep warm air circulating in heated basement. Kinda wasteful but I've done it lol
  • Run an electric heater and cabinets open
  • Tank heating pads on fresh, hot water, gray, and black tanks (cheap, low power consumption, and easy added insurance)
  • Plumbing heating pads on the black, gray, and dump plumbing
  • I stick a trouble light with a 60w incandescent down in the water pump area and keep it on
• What to do about water in the lines while parked with shore power?
  • If it's still cold but I know I won't be taking the camper out for a bit, I'll dump the tanks, drain the hot tank into a bucket that I take inside to dump in the tub if it's freezing out. Blow the lines and hot tank out w/compressor and pour some RV antifreeze down the drains. These are small campers — the whole routine takes 10 minutes with one of the freshwater connection / compressor adapters.
  • Consider wrapping water lines of concern with pipe heating cable and foam insulation
  • Open applicable cabinets to allow warm air to circulate
• As another poster mentioned, even the double pane windows are a weak spot. Fit some Reflectix panels for the windows and fab up / buy some plugs for the roof vents and such.

In preparation for this winter, I'm considering swapping out the factory propane heater for two diesel heaters. Theoretically, this way one could semi-independently control the heated basement area and the cabin. Less moisture from this heat source, too. I certainly don't mind sleeping at 50ºF while it's 0ºF out but man that thing is loud when it kicks on, and it does so frequently when the temps are low.

I run all the plumbing and such in the winter. After a day of touring it's pretty b*tchin to pop a pizza in the oven, take a hot shower, and have a beer

 

[GodwinAustin]

In preparation for this winter, I'm considering swapping out the factory propane heater for two diesel heaters. Theoretically, this way one could semi-independently control the heated basement area and the cabin. Less moisture from this heat source, too. I certainly don't mind sleeping at 50ºF while it's 0ºF out but man that thing is loud when it kicks on, and it does so frequently when the temps are low.

I run all the plumbing and such in the winter. After a day of touring it's pretty b*tchin to pop a pizza in the oven, take a hot shower, and have a beer

Thank you. That last paragraph is what I’m talking about haha ! I have also been thinking of swapping the propane for a diesel heater and tying into my Cummins fuel tank, which would seem to be a big upgrade over the propane unit. How would you integrate the second heater ? On my 1500 , I’m not sure it has separate ducting to the tanks.


also need to figure out how to do the air compressor water flush. I’ll be checking that linked thread out

 

[NOPEC]

Thank you. That last paragraph is what I’m talking about haha ! I have also been thinking of swapping the propane for a diesel heater and tying into my Cummins fuel tank, which would seem to be a big upgrade over the propane unit. How would you integrate the second heater ? On my 1500 , I’m not sure it has separate ducting to the tanks.


also need to figure out how to do the air compressor water flush. I’ll be checking that linked thread out

As far as heater ducting, just have a look along the side of your heater that is closest to your tanks. The ducting (there should be two of them, one for each tank) exits the heater sheet metal casing where it is attached to factory knockouts. It then disappears behind the cabinetry. It is a grayish flexible corrugated hose, 2-2 1/2 inches in diameter.

Flushing with compressed air is easy with the city water inlet, make or buy a fitting with a Schrader bicycle tube connector and just make sure you dial your compressor way down. Don't forget to put antifreeze in your traps.

Further to the discussion regarding de-humidifiers, this just hot off the press.... https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dehumidifer-recall-1.6132092