Hey Vortec Guys! / Sierra pickup / Suburban / Yukon etc - Finally has Index!

[kojackJKU]

Hell if it's working good right now don't touch a thing! Don't even look at it funny.

Must have looked at it funny ha ha ha! oh well....there goes that....I think its water/condensation. for something to work, then not and then work again. The gounds sound like an issue to since the switching is working again now....

 

[Jelorian]

Only other thing percolating on GMT800 mechanics right now is trans temp gauges. Looking at aftermarket pieces and mounting and tie-in locs. But I keep poking around for info on the dash clusters. The 2500s have the trans temp in the cluster. the 1500s have the same harness, have the temp sensor and it SEEMS like the instrument circuit board is only missing the stepper motor and gauge face / needle. I'm toying with the idea of experimenting and scavenging gauge face and needle from the scrapyard and getting a new set of stepper motors and just see if I can's work som low-dollar magic. The only 'factory' options are ~$200-400. I might be able to pull it off for as little as $40. I'm still looking for comparison pics too, to determine if there is an IC or resistor missing too or just the stepper motor itself. I think it's worth a few bucks to try it out. Might just solder a stepper on there and move one of the smaller needles to it and see what happens. A new set of stepper motors (6 pack) is under $20.

FYI. If you can find a cluster from a 02 Escalade or the 2500HD's they should have the temp gauge. Might not be cheaper but it would certainly be easier as it is a straight swap.

Check out this thread on the Z71 forums.

 

[rayra]

yes, aware of the cluster swap. Can't seem to find hard info on getting it reprogrammed with my vehicle's odometer, hour meter, VIN whatever, just vague mentions of it costing $150+ for what should be a moment's work. If I can find a more affordable costing for that data swap, I can pull a cluster at the auto wrecking yard.

I'm trying the $5 solution first, buying the full version of the Torque app and setting it up on my dash-mounted android tablet with my bluetooth OBDII reader. And that will work fine for my purposes, as road trips are about the only time I mount the tablet. And the only time I'd have concern about trans temp.

failing that, spending $20 on a set of stepper motors and soldering one in. With two gmt800 SUVs, the rest will probably come in handy at some time. If I solder one in and it works as I hope, I can add / create a gauge face and get a needle and be done.

failing that, spend $60-100 for an aftermarket electrical trans temp gauge kit and craft an appropriate mount. In fact there's so much curve / swoop space in that cluster faceplate I think I could use a drill press and hole saw and make an appropriate hole in it to set in an aftermarket gauge, without it impacting anything else in the cluster.

Then there's the more expensive cluster swap.

I've got more time than money, and the tools and fabrication skills. So I'll work on the cheap end and work my way up.

 

[Burb One]

yes, aware of the cluster swap. Can't seem to find hard info on getting it reprogrammed with my vehicle's odometer, hour meter, VIN whatever, just vague mentions of it costing $150+ for what should be a moment's work. If I can find a more affordable costing for that data swap, I can pull a cluster at the auto wrecking yard.

I'm trying the $5 solution first, buying the full version of the Torque app and setting it up on my dash-mounted android tablet with my bluetooth OBDII reader. And that will work fine for my purposes, as road trips are about the only time I mount the tablet. And the only time I'd have concern about trans temp.

failing that, spending $20 on a set of stepper motors and soldering one in. With two gmt800 SUVs, the rest will probably come in handy at some time. If I solder one in and it works as I hope, I can add / create a gauge face and get a needle and be done.

failing that, spend $60-100 for an aftermarket electrical trans temp gauge kit and craft an appropriate mount. In fact there's so much curve / swoop space in that cluster faceplate I think I could use a drill press and hole saw and make an appropriate hole in it to set in an aftermarket gauge, without it impacting anything else in the cluster.

Then there's the more expensive cluster swap.

I've got more time than money, and the tools and fabrication skills. So I'll work on the cheap end and work my way up.

On both my GMT800's I put the stepper motor and new "back splash" w Transmission temp markings. The stepper motors are easy as heck if you've soldered at all.

On my 2003 put the stepper motor in (actually replaced all of them with high quality while I was in there), bought new nice red needles on fleabay for 10 bucks, and the new backsplash off ebay for ~20 bucks. While I was in there I also replaced all of the backlighting with red leds. Plugged it in, worked right out of the box! The red is super nice at night.

On my current 2004 did all the same, but no cigar. Ended up using one of the ebay programmers and paying them 60 bucks. I can reccomend you the one I used. Was great, flat rated the gauge cluster over to them and their turn around time was 24 hours! Apparently sometime in 2004 the programming was switched (I never got a clear answer when it actually switched...)

I have both a scan gauge and the temp gauge. I like having both, nice to always have an extra eye, especially needle type because I feels it draws my eye when in the wrong position much easier than a digit number on the scan gauge. Also the scan gauge is nice because you can program it to "save the highest temp seen" which is nice if you're not driving the truck or if you forgot to pay attention. Torque is nice on the phone/ tablet, but with music and all the other stuff, I never keep it open. All those A pillar gauges are will seem to be the same $ and time by the time you get the mount, and wiriing, when the factory temp gauge is an hour into adding and soldering the stepper motor, new leds, and being done for cheap, or possibly just having to spend $60ish bucks to send it in. IMO

 

[rayra]

hmmm, eggselent news. I very much want to try this on my '02 Sub. If it's that easy I will giggle. I've already done some soldering on its cluster and the Missus' '05 Tahoe (to correct fading / failing gear indicator display and bulbs)


in the meantime - Monkey pull lever get banana!

I've had the TorqueLite android app on that tablet I made a dash mount for, it works in conjunction with that inexpensive OBDII port scanner bluetooth dongle gadget. TorquLite gives you access to all sorts of vehicle data, error codes and the like. But NOT Trans Temp.
The full Torque app ($5) includes trans temp modules. That don't work properly.
After much digging around I found some references that appear to work, hooked everything up live tonight, made the programming edits and whammo, I appear to have working trans temp data displayed in the Torque app 'dash'.

Vehicle's cold, trans only reading ~ambient temps. I'll check it out when I'm driving around on errands tomorrow. And do some more digging to figure out if what I just did is ACTUALLY doing what I think it is doing.

here's the data display tweak I followed -

http://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...ng-161/torque-scan-tool-android-495528/page3/


/ook ook

 

[Burb One]

adding the gauge is half the work of replacing which you already know how to do just throw in the stepper motor in the spot, you've been there so it will be a cinch! I call it 50/50 on plug and play haha If not it's just cluster programming and not carside, so it's not too expensive to get it programmed and then the temp gauge slpashes are cheap too.

Ya I've got the torque pro app on my tablet setup and on my phone. For me the trans gauge was listed under the available data inputs and it worked right out the box :shrug:

I even purchsed a $2 "car app" that changes my home screen to an eaiser to read setup with a nice large icon home screen. When the bluetooth turns on and the tablet connects the tablet automatically opens that home screen and there's an overlay with torque. However, I've found once we start moving on trips, spotify or maps always takes precedent, and the "mission critical" torque stuff never seems to be there when I need it without pressing a few buttons..... That's why I felt the $100ish bucks into the trans temp gauge was nice, even with the scan gauge because that always seems to not be on the home page but on mpg..... I'd try a few drives with the tablet and see if what you've got works for you before spending the $, but it is possible for sure to have the temp gauge factory in the cluster!

Love the tablet mount, I remember seeing your write up for it! I also like all the red lights, it made a huge difference at night. I hate most new cars seem to like the bright blue dashes... bad for night vision. I wish there was some way to change the PRD321 and odometer into red... I tried some red sheets, but with the green backlighting it turned purple

 

[kojackJKU]

Thanks for that link rayra.....!

 

[Hillbilly Heaven]

I am going to have to try the TorquLite APP in my 2000 Silverado and Suburban. I am not interested in modifying my clusters although I do like the solution for the cluster. Tablets are going to be full time installed so easier to just use APP.

 

[bald.eagle]

Question for you other GM guys. I have an 02 Suburban LT 4x4, around 192k at the moment. I'm on the fence if I keep this truck and rebuild/repair things as needed, or if it's time to get rid of it and build something newer.

Truck is mostly stock, but needs a good bit of work. Noticed recently there's coolant in the oil (head gasket?) and it has a slow coolant leak also. Motor has some audible valve noise, worse at a cold start. Transmission shifts fine but it's never been rebuilt. Needs new ball joints, CV axles, and bushings all around. Heat doesn't work, I think the blend door actuator is busted. Needs a passenger side window regulator.

I know several of these are small fixes that I can do myself no problem. The motor rebuild is what concerns me, as I've never done more than basic tune ups. I'm about to buy an extra vehicle I can use for a commuter. I'd like to put the work into it and get the truck back 100% so I can consider it reliable and continue to upgrade it.

If I'm gonna tear the motor down, I want to cover all the bases and replace any seal or gasket that may be in question. How doable is an in-depth rebuild on these motors? Anyone have good manual PDF's or a step by step of the tear down? Interested to hear input from those who have done a job this in depth.

 

[Hillbilly Heaven]

You have two choices rebuild what you have or find a 2000-2004 engine from salvage yard. I wouldn't touch the transmission at this point. Whichever you choose take lots of pics and make tons of notes.

 

[rayra]

Boy did you come to the right topic! heh. Almost all that stuff is covered in here already, item for item.

I have to say the LS/LM motors have been the easiest I've ever had to work on. They did a real nice job in their engineering, it's possible to work on subsections of the motor without having to totally tear things apart. MUCH easier to change a water pump on my Sub/Tahoe than on my old small block chevy pickup.

Hard to say without seeing the guts of the motor, cylinder compression readings, oil pressures etc, but I've ready many anecdotal accounts of these motors going 300k mi +

A very viable option is a brand new short block. Compares very favorably if your old / existing motor is going to need a lot of machining work. And it all very much depends on your experience and willingness to try a full engine rebuild. None of it is hard. The hard part is picking and choosing the right combination of parts if you are taking the opportunity to do something more than OEM replacements. Me, I've been happy with both the 5.7 and 5.3 motors as is. Towed boats, U-haul trailers, open utility trailers with ATVs with no trouble at all. Gut be very careful of heavier towing loads especially at higher mileages. That seems to be the death blow for the 4L60E.

And on the rebuilding, I'll re-iterate that with sources like rockauto.com and even GMDirect for parts, a huge range of repairs are very inexpensive right now. These seem to be the 'sweet spot' years for price and availability of parts. My old C-10 has fallen out the back end of that, I have trouble getting specific parts for it these days. But the GMT800s, just wow stuff is inexpensive. I'm doing preventative maintenance on a lot of things just because the parts are cheap and I have the time (and ability / tools)

Above all I'd get right on that coolant in the oil issue. If your motor wasn't already high-mileage that (decreased lubricity) would probably kill it. Fix that FIRST. Worry about the sticking lifters later. Or since you are needing to dump the oil already, do the Gunk engine flush treatment before you do, that should help with the lifters. Just don't put a load on the engine when you do.

 

[Hillbilly Heaven]

One thing about the Gunk engine flush. I used it on an old V6, that had little to no maintenance as far as oil changes done, for a sticking lifter. All went fine and yes it flush a lot of bad stuff out and even helped the lifter. A few days after doing the flush the motor lost oil pressure. I have used this stuff plenty of times with no problems. I went looking for the simple things first and pulled the valve covers figuring it gunk had plugged the oil drain back holes in the heads. They checked out ok but heads were full of caked on oil and carbon from no oil changes. Pulled the oil pan and the oil pump inlet strainer was completely plugged with heavy sludge. The Gunk had loosened a lot of nasty stuff but it did not come out when the oil pan was drained, it was too thick. Flushing it a second time with fresh oil and Gunk engine flush might have helped. I cleaned up the bottom side and buttoned it up. Oil pressure was good and owner was happy again.

 

[rayra]

Well the times I've used it - some earlier detailed right in this topic - I've deliberately done it as a cycle of maintenance that included dropping the oil pan and replacing its gasket, taking a look-see at the engine internals and bottoms of the cylinder bores and pulling the oil pickup and changing its o-ring. So had it not done a thorough job, or if these motors had been gunked up, it would have been moot. I was already intending to open things up anyway.
We've used just regular inexpensive name-brand oils and changed them on recommended intervals and I've been happily surprised at how clean the internals have been. I drive my **** hard sometimes, and even then there's little / no evidence of blow-by or sludged up oil. I'm really liking these vortec motors. I can see why so much of the aftermarket car builder market makes use of them.

rockauto has a full rebuild kit - all gaskets, pistons, rings, bearing sets for under $500. Throw in a new set of lifters, any necessary machining work and if you can do everything else yourself you could do it for ~$1500. That includes a lot of 'targets of opportunity, like a full cooling system refresh, etc.

by comparison a GM Goodwrench remanf LM7 short block is over $5k. And if you need the motor replaced you damned well out to replace much of what is attached to it, or you'll be chasing repairs for a long while.

The irony is you can buy an entire GMT800 K1500 Sub/Tahoe for about $6k and <150k mi.

The other thing to consider is a scrapyard engine to start a (re)build on. LM7 motors were in just about every truck and SUV in the product line, across all the GM brands. They're literally everywhere. Pulled motors, complete 'turn key' are roughly $3k to your door. And even then you'd still want to tear it down for inspection and massaging.

Were it me, I'd rebuild by own motor and rent an inexpensive car by the week. If you research and line everything up you could get it done in a week or a couple long weekends. And be at around $2k, including the rental car. IF you don't already have other transportation available to you.

 

[rayra]

Update on the Torque Trans Temp tweak, dump the -40 from the formula. I think that might have been some crude attempt at Fahrenheit to Celsius. From a cold start this afternoon, 50F ambient, that added gauge read only 11 degrees. So I re-edited, dropped the -40 and took it for a spin tonight in the cold rain. I got a pretty steady 96F cruising around 60. I'll call that a good value, I was anticipating anything between 100-125F.
I'm going to run with that for a few datas while I continue to data mine for more info.


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What is the average transmission temp of 2008 chevrolet suburban and tolerances what is to high?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Chevy
Share this conversation
Expert: Mark replied 5 years ago.
Greetings and welcome to Just Answer. My name is Mark.

The flow of transmission fluid starts in the bottom pan and is drawn through the filter, control valve body assembly, transmission case and into the oil pump assembly. The oil pump assembly pressurizes the fluid and directs it to the pressure regulator valve where it becomes the main supply of fluid to the various components and hydraulic circuits in the transmission.

Hot fluid exiting the torque converter flows through the converter clutch apply valve and into the transmission cooler lines to the oil cooler located in the vehicle radiator, and auxiliary cooler if equipped. From the cooler, fluid returns to cool and lubricate the front of the transmission. In forward drive ranges, D4 fluid from the manual valve is routed through an orificed cup plug in the rear of the transmission case to feed the rear lube fluid circuit.

Trouble code P0218 will set if the transmission fluid temperature is 136°C (277°F) or greater for 60 seconds. GM does not state average running temperature of the ATF. There are too many variables for engine overloading, towing, towing in overdrive, weather conditions, etc. Trans fluid can and will get hot. As stated, there is only an issue when the fluid reaches and goes beyond the 277 mark for more then 60 seconds.

You will then get a message to stop the vehicle and idle the engine.
Mark
Mark, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 847
Experience: 34+ yrs Dealership Exp. - Fully State & ASE Certified - GM Master & GM World Class Tech

 

[rayra]

Update on the Torque Trans Temp tweak, dump the -40 from the formula. I think that might have been some crude attempt at Fahrenheit to Celsius. From a cold start this afternoon, 50F ambient, that added gauge read only 11 degrees. So I re-edited, dropped the -40 and took it for a spin tonight in the cold rain. I got a pretty steady 96F cruising around 60. I'll call that a good value, I was anticipating anything between 100-125F.
I'm going to run with that for a few datas while I continue to data mine for more info.

-----


What is the average transmission temp of 2008 chevrolet suburban and tolerances what is to high?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Chevy
Share this conversation
Expert: Mark replied 5 years ago.
Greetings and welcome to Just Answer. My name is Mark.

The flow of transmission fluid starts in the bottom pan and is drawn through the filter, control valve body assembly, transmission case and into the oil pump assembly. The oil pump assembly pressurizes the fluid and directs it to the pressure regulator valve where it becomes the main supply of fluid to the various components and hydraulic circuits in the transmission.

Hot fluid exiting the torque converter flows through the converter clutch apply valve and into the transmission cooler lines to the oil cooler located in the vehicle radiator, and auxiliary cooler if equipped. From the cooler, fluid returns to cool and lubricate the front of the transmission. In forward drive ranges, D4 fluid from the manual valve is routed through an orificed cup plug in the rear of the transmission case to feed the rear lube fluid circuit.

Trouble code P0218 will set if the transmission fluid temperature is 136°C (277°F) or greater for 60 seconds. GM does not state average running temperature of the ATF. There are too many variables for engine overloading, towing, towing in overdrive, weather conditions, etc. Trans fluid can and will get hot. As stated, there is only an issue when the fluid reaches and goes beyond the 277 mark for more then 60 seconds.

You will then get a message to stop the vehicle and idle the engine.
Mark
Mark, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 847
Experience: 34+ yrs Dealership Exp. - Fully State & ASE Certified - GM Master & GM World Class Tech