HiLux gets new diesel

[SSF556]

The 2f in my cruiser peaks out at 1800


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Do you have a torque curve for the 2F? I know it is a grunty for gas engine but there is no comparison on how a diesel delivers the torque.

Attached is the torque curve for the 3.0L Mercedes Diesel...this represents a modern day diesel engine used in various platforms.


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[calicamper]

I don't think that's true. Hybrids are available over seas and they still offer Diesel engines.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The largest hybrid market in the world is the US auto market with California being the biggest within the US. They sell more Hybrids in CA than they sell in all of Europe. Marketing has a powerful influence on US consumers and Toyota has spent an estimated billion dollars marketing hybrid hype to the US consumer. As such Toyota will not offer diesel anything here till they are getting hit hard in sales and beat up for not having them.

 

[toylandcruiser]

The largest hybrid market in the world is the US auto market with California being the biggest within the US. They sell more Hybrids in CA than they sell in all of Europe. Marketing has a powerful influence on US consumers and Toyota has spent an estimated billion dollars marketing hybrid hype to the US consumer. As such Toyota will not offer diesel anything here till they are getting hit hard in sales and beat up for not having them.

And? This is all speculation. I promise you haven't heard this from an official source


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[calicamper]

Do you have a torque curve for the 2F? I know it is a grunty for gas engine but there is no comparison on how a diesel delivers the torque.

Attached is the torque curve for the 3.0L Mercedes Diesel...this represents a modern day diesel engine used in various platforms.


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No to mention my 93 LC basically had a tractor engine in it and was decades old technology that got 13mpg with a tail wind. When a vehicle gets 13mpg you can have a massive AC unit in it for cold meat storage, you can use a massive lump of an engine for low end grunt etc. Modern vehicles today can't run gas engines like that simply not possible with the EPA requirements not to mention no one will buy a $70,000 new LC that only gets 13mpg with a tail wind today.

 

[Dalko43]

I really don't understand the diesel argument. All new diesels have to comply with inane emissions goals making them maddeningly complicated and taking up a lot of space under the vehicle. The reliability thing would make sense if you were plan a trip that exceeded 200k miles, but really? You can fully rebuild a gas motor after you put 200k on it for the additional cost of a Diesel engine at the time of purchase. And range? Auxiliary fuel tank isn't that hard, and you could easily reach 500+ miles without having to deal with jerry cans. Maybe in places where gasoline isn't super available, but those places are becoming less and less common.

I see the need for towing, but the v6 in the modern Tacoma is more than adequate for what most people are planning on taking on an overland journey.

Flame away, but I think the biggest reason to have a diesel Tacoma (apart from towing) is to have a diesel Tacoma. Plus the sulfur differences in developing countries doesn't jive well with modern emmissions systems (afaik) so you would have to remove that equipment and reprogram the ecu and void the warranty and not pass smog in your state.

Flame away, but I'll stick with a gas truck and save money since I'm not hauling a boat

No one's going to flame you for having an opinion, just understand others may have a different perspective on this issue (diesel vs gas engines).

Cost: Diesels cost more up front. They normally have a premium of several thousand $'s over comparable gas engines. Could you "rebuild" a gas engine for that cost? Maybe, if you DIY, know how/where to find cheap parts. If you don't DIY and get a shop to do the work, I could see an engine re-build going well beyond that $3k-$4k mark.

Durability: Modern diesels can easily last upwards of 450k miles and often times much longer. Even older ones have been known to get there and beyond. For gas engines, going past 300k miles is going to require a lot more TLC and at some point, as discussed, a rebuild. Diesels however do require more periodic maintenance.

Fuel economy: Diesels generally get 20%-30% better mpg than their gas equivalents. Even when comparing a turbo diesel to a turbo gas engine, the diesel generally gets better mpg and range. Comparing the 3L 6 cylinder Turbo Diesel Grand Cherokee to the 3L 6 cylinder turbo gas BMW X5 is not really apples to apples, but it does indicate a clear advantage for diesel engines: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35759&id=35408&id=35520

Emissions: Diesels do put out more pollutants than gas engines, but with modern technology, diesels have quickly been closing the gap in that area. There has been some research into Zero emissions gasoline engines, and I would imagine someone will start looking into the same concept for a diesel engine if not having already started.

Performance: Diesels engines, by their nature, are much more energy efficient than gas engines. You generally get more usable torque, at lower RPM's than you do with gas engines. Only possible exception to that is a turbo gas engines (depends on the configuration and type of turbo's).

In summary, diesel engines, especially when coupled with the conceptual electric motors/batteries are a very big deal for traditional BOF SUV's and truck owners. They promise half-decent fuel economy, very good performance and very good durability/reliability, all of which are essential for this vehicle segment.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Do you have a torque curve for the 2F? I know it is a grunty for gas engine but there is no comparison on how a diesel delivers the torque.

Attached is the torque curve for the 3.0L Mercedes Diesel...this represents a modern day diesel engine used in various platforms.


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Looks like it's pretty flat from 1800- 32ish.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/3fe_hp_torque-jpg.161049/


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[calicamper]

And? This is all speculation. I promise you haven't heard this from an official source


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I know many people in the auto biz on the investor side of the game trust me there isn't any interest from Toyota to bring Diesel to the US as long as they are not being beat up over mileage and taking big hits to sales numbers. Investors would be very very angry to see the billion spent marketing otto cycle gas engines and hybrid being challenged by selling diesel on the same car lot. Won't happen till Toyota sees a big change in consumer demand and is getting skunked by other makers who are selling diesel vehicles.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I know many people in the auto biz on the investor side of the game trust me there isn't any interest from Toyota to bring Diesel to the US as long as they are not being beat up over mileage and taking big hits to sales numbers. Investors would be very very angry to see the billion spent marketing otto cycle gas engines and hybrid being challenged by selling diesel on the same car lot. Won't happen till Toyota sees a big change in consumer demand and is getting skunked by other makers who are selling diesel vehicles.

Claiming on Internet
Once again. The people are choosing to purchase hybrids. So that's the consumer not Toyota pushing it.
It takes on average of 14 years to recoup the fuel savings of a diesel. I would like a diesel. But I'm not going to get butt hurt if it's not offered. If I truly want one I'll just import a diesel cruiser or hilux. Way cheaper than purchasing a new Tacoma or Colorado with one.
Also why do you need huge torque numbers in a mid size truck? You're not going to tow 10000+ pound trailers with it.

To each his own.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[Dalko43]

I know many people in the auto biz on the investor side of the game trust me there isn't any interest from Toyota to bring Diesel to the US as long as they are not being beat up over mileage and taking big hits to sales numbers. Investors would be very very angry to see the billion spent marketing otto cycle gas engines and hybrid being challenged by selling diesel on the same car lot. Won't happen till Toyota sees a big change in consumer demand and is getting skunked by other makers who are selling diesel vehicles.

It's great that you have the "inside scoop" on this...we'd all be lost without you...

If Jeep has already introduced a diesel engine, and Nissan has done so as well (Titan), then I think (my opinion, not fact or industry "rumor") that Toyota is not far behind.

 

[calicamper]

Claiming on Internet
Once again. The people are choosing to purchase hybrids. So that's the consumer not Toyota pushing it.
It takes on average of 14 years to recoup the fuel savings of a diesel. I would like a diesel. But I'm not going to get butt hurt if it's not offered. If I truly want one I'll just import a diesel cruiser or hilux. Way cheaper than purchasing a new Tacoma or Colorado with one.
Also why do you need huge torque numbers in a mid size truck? You're not going to tow 10000+ pound trailers with it.

To each his own.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Import a 25yr old hilux to the US? Why?
I love diesel but the the typical arguments for them are all wrong today, they are more $$$ than gas for maint, really have no longevity arguments over modern Gas trucks and my response about Toyota needing to bring diesel to the US is about the simple fact Toyota bought into gas / hybrid to a tune of over a billion dollars which means no way Toyota will bring Diesel anything here to the US unless they get wooped big time by competitors selling diesel vehicles. Which no one can say will happen with a strait face today.

The only reason to buy diesel mid sized is for range, and grunt over the gasser. There are plenty of people who buy vehicles with mileage being a very important factor hell most Prius owners just look at the mileage claim and purchase them based on that. When they could have simply bought a Honda Civic and saved money. So logic plays very little in US consumer decisions about vehicles.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Import a 25yr old hilux to the US? Why?
I love diesel but the the typical arguments for them are all wrong today, they are more $$$ than gas for maint, really have no longevity arguments over modern Gas trucks and my response about Toyota needing to bring diesel to the US is about the simple fact Toyota bought into gas / hybrid to a tune of over a billion dollars which means no way Toyota will bring Diesel anything here to the US unless they get wooped big time by competitors selling diesel vehicles. Which no one can say will happen with a strait face today.

The only reason to buy diesel mid sized is for range, and grunt over the gasser. There are plenty of people who buy vehicles with mileage being a very important factor hell most Prius owners just look at the mileage claim and purchase them based on that. When they could have simply bought a Honda Civic and saved money. So logic plays very little in US consumer decisions about vehicles.

I agree with the a diesel not being what they were in past. I was just pointing out that if I was super hard up for one I could simply import one. The 4.0 in my 4Runner has never had any issue with low end grunt. Unless I was towing huge heavy trailers I would look into a diesel. Other wise I'll just stick with gas.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[toylandcruiser]

I agree with the a diesel not being what they were in past. I was just pointing out that if I was super hard up for one I could simply import one. The 4.0 in my 4Runner has never had any issue with low end grunt. Unless I was towing huge heavy trailers I would look into a diesel. Other wise I'll just stick with gas.
I'm trying to figure why you keep mentioning how Toyota bought into the hybrid thing. Who cares. It works and they are selling them. Good on them. Hybrid cars are pretty neat cars. Father in law has a hybrid Camry with over 100000 miles on it. Runs great still returns 50 mpg. Has lots of power from the 4 cylinder motor in it.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[gmacmt]

In summary, diesel engines, especially when coupled with the conceptual electric motors/batteries are a very big deal for traditional BOF SUV's and truck owners. They promise very half-decent fuel economy, very good performance and very good durability/reliability, all of which are essential for this vehicle segment.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...de-a-DIESEL-Tacoma-for-the-US-would-you/page3

I understand the hybrid electric diesel argument, but thats not really something that can reasonably considered for the near future.

 

[Dalko43]

Import a 25yr old hilux to the US? Why?
I love diesel but the the typical arguments for them are all wrong today, they are more $$$ than gas for maint, really have no longevity arguments over modern Gas trucks

In regards to part in bold, real-world data would indicate different results from what you suggested...

 

[calicamper]

I agree with the a diesel not being what they were in past. I was just pointing out that if I was super hard up for one I could simply import one. The 4.0 in my 4Runner has never had any issue with low end grunt. Unless I was towing huge heavy trailers I would look into a diesel. Other wise I'll just stick with gas.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The new generation midsized trucks like the 4runner and the new Colorado etc are all shifting to new more efficient engines which so far seem to be more car focused engines than your typical torquey truck engines which Toyota and nissan both were very good at building those torquey 4L V6's. Thats been one of the big comments about the new Colorado the V6 is not torquey at all and you really need to give it a boot to the gonads before it starts to feel like it will have enough grunt to do what most of us have done with our older 4L trucks.

It will be very interesting to see if the new 3.5L engine Toyota puts in the new Tacoma is like the old 4L or ends up being more car like needing far higher RPMs to feel like it will have the grunt needed for trail work or trailer hauling etc.