HiLux gets new diesel

[calicamper]

In regards to part in bold, real-world data would indicate different results from what you suggested...

When you have service trucks doing 350,000 miles before any sort of major engine rebuild which we see all the time today yes the proof is already there. The folks running the V8 Toyota service vehicles in Alaska see 350,000 miles on them before they need to be pulled and have major engine work done. Most mine operations with Domestic brand pickups see the same sort of life span out of modern Gas engines. Modern Diesel engines are far more complex than the old mechanical fuel pump engines of the past, the diesel engines are built using much of the same metal technology as the gas engines etc so yes these are things we already know and see all the time. Its not 1979 anymore modern gas engines and modern Diesel engines more or less have the same typical life span.

 

[java]

/snip
I see the need for towing, but the v6 in the modern Tacoma is more than adequate for what most people are planning on taking on an overland journey.

/snip

Really? I find the v6 (4.0L) in my 4runner sucks with my small (very light) trailer, and a full truck. I have to seriously wring it out, and get crappy mileage, to do anywhere near a respectable speed on the freeway. in 4lo its fine, but there is much torque multiplication going on there.

 

[calicamper]

Really? I find the v6 (4.0L) in my 4runner sucks with my small (very light) trailer, and a full truck. I have to seriously wring it out, and get crappy mileage, to do anywhere near a respectable speed on the freeway. in 4lo its fine, but there is much torque multiplication going on there.

It comes down to # of trips a year you do like that vs at what point do you just get a larger capacity vehicle? I went from a 4runner to a Land Cruiser to a 07 Sequoia for several reasons capacity was one of them. But when its just two kids and two parents our typical camping trip 900lb empty before packed 4x6 Life Time Tent trailer gets packed up and we typically take the 2.5L Subaru Outback which case we generally get 22mpg round trip averages and we easily do above speed limit speeds. Granted we are not doing any sort of trail work but we have done dirt roads into trail heads etc. When we take 5+ people and the added gear that comes with that number we take the Sequoia which is WAY over kill on the power side of things but we always seem to get 16-17mpg regardless of the trailer format with plenty of load capacity.

I view the 4runner and the Tacoma as just more capable and rugged versions of the Subaru so instead of keeping towed weight to say 1400-1500lbs with the subaru the Tacoma and the 4runner are Ok with 2500-2800lbs in tow anything beyond that and as you said they are getting heavy and starting to work hard and for a long trips that can get old and isn't much fun if you do it more than a few times a year.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Really? I find the v6 (4.0L) in my 4runner sucks with my small (very light) trailer, and a full truck. I have to seriously wring it out, and get crappy mileage, to do anywhere near a respectable speed on the freeway. in 4lo its fine, but there is much torque multiplication going on there.

Something must be wrong with yours. I tow a 2500 pound pop up and the truck loaded down and I was getting 16 or so. We went up to 8000 foot elevation and I never had any issue with power.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[toylandcruiser]

When you have service trucks doing 350,000 miles before any sort of major engine rebuild which we see all the time today yes the proof is already there. The folks running the V8 Toyota service vehicles in Alaska see 350,000 miles on them before they need to be pulled and have major engine work done. Most mine operations with Domestic brand pickups see the same sort of life span out of modern Gas engines. Modern Diesel engines are far more complex than the old mechanical fuel pump engines of the past, the diesel engines are built using much of the same metal technology as the gas engines etc so yes these are things we already know and see all the time. Its not 1979 anymore modern gas engines and modern Diesel engines more or less have the same typical life span.

I wish I could like this.

X2



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[calicamper]

My primary interest in a modern 4dr midsized diesel 4x4 pickup is that I would get a vehicle "Hopefully" with modern crash performance standards, and similar range to my Subaru regarding mileage. Cost isn't my big concern hell we were looking at $75,000 Mecedes GL Diesels thinking we might replace a Subaru and an old Land Cruiser with one vehicle. But after a few neighbors had some very big issues with theirs we simply paid cash for a new Subaru and paid cash for a lightly used single owner Sequoia instead. But today my wife will probably be using the Subaru more for work meaning my primary DD will be a 2001 VW. Which case I'm looking forward to see what happens with the Midsized trucks. Given If I could get one that gets good mileage, has a decent interior and crash rating I could see upgrading my 2001VW DD for something like that. Our Sequoia is driven by Grandpa during the day hauling kids around to school, daycare, sports etc. I do drive his car occasionally but driving a mint condition SLK 350 around to the office and running errands doesn't seem quite right.

 

[bkg]

For all of the diesel haters... Diesels WERE fantastic. Simple. Efficient. Powerful. Fuel available nearly anywhere.

EPA is ensuring that will never be the case again. Don't blame the diesel, blame the respective governments who are destroying what is probably the best option for trucks....

 

[calicamper]

My 1986 Universal Diesel in my sailboat is awesome! Simple, always works, can run all day long and only burns like 3 gallons of diesel over hours and hours of use. No doubt the old simple diesels were super super cool engines. The new diesels are great but in different ways, gobs of power and very efficient. But reliability and simplicity is something they do not share with the new modern diesels. Same could be said about gas engines too. You need to be as much a computer tech as a wrench tech with gas engines today.

 

[AFSOC]

I was a major diesel fanboy until I sat down and did the math last year when I was in the market for a truck. Diesel just didn't make economic sense for me...and it wasn't even that close. I think OEMs really missed the mark in the '90s by not proliferating small diesels. Under those conditions it would have been a superior product under a broader set of applications. For today, the increased entry cost and maintenance costs for diesels and the efficiency and longevity of todays gassers, erodes any advantages in the light truck market diesel once held. My tune on fuel type has changed. I'm not a diesel hater but I no longer have covetous feelings for diesel.

 

[calicamper]

I was a major diesel fanboy until I sat down and did the math last year when I was in the market for a truck. Diesel just didn't make economic sense for me...and it wasn't even that close. I think OEMs really missed the mark in the '90s by not proliferating small diesels. Under those conditions it would have been a superior product under a broader set of applications. For today, the increased entry cost and maintenance costs for diesels and the efficiency and longevity of todays gassers, erodes any advantages in the light truck market diesel once held. My tune on fuel type has changed. I'm not a diesel hater but I no longer have covetous feelings for diesel.

Agreed which is why I have said if you want diesel make sure its for the power type and range given thats really the only advantage. Cost savings doesn't work so don't do it to save money. Do it for the power type and fuel range.

 

[1911]

The 2f in my cruiser peaks out at 1800

And even more importantly (IMO), it generates 80% of peak torque at only 1200 rpm. The F and 2F are great long-stroke wheeling motors; not surprising since that is what they were designed for. But they only make 200 ft. lbs. peak torque, and only about 12 mpg on-road. The new turbo diesel makes 66% more peak torque and is still making 273 ft. lbs. at only 1200 RPM! In my book, that would be a great wheeling motor. The increased fuel economy/range is just icing on the cake.

I have no plans to ever sell my 2F-powered 40, but if Toyota put this new turbo diesel in a Tacoma, I would be the first in line to buy one.

 

[toylandcruiser]

For all of the diesel haters... Diesels WERE fantastic. Simple. Efficient. Powerful. Fuel available nearly anywhere.

EPA is ensuring that will never be the case again. Don't blame the diesel, blame the respective governments who are destroying what is probably the best option for trucks....

I'm far from a diesel hater


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[zolo]

I think the biggest issue is that the Hilux is in a segment of trucks that simply does not exist in the US.

Besides the diesel engine, the Hilux is a spartan, small, and basic 4wd utility truck. The Hilux along with the Chevy Dmax, the Terrano and the MItsubushi L200 are all small diesel utility trucks. They are marketed as such and designed for that market.

For starters the Hilux here in Chile does not even get offered with an automatic trans. In fact the only truck that does is the Mitubuishi L200 "Dakar" spec.
All the rest are roll up windows, manual trans utility trucks. Even A/C is an option.
When I mean basic, I mean they have a radio. That is it.

I know the thread is about the new diesel engine in the Hilux but I think we all have to look at the bigger picture. The Hilux is a straight up different truck than the Tacoma. It has a manual t-case, standard rear shackles (not inverted). An all metal pick up bed. A higher pay load. Bigger rear leaf pack. A very basic interior.
It's a different bread really. Just because they share the same front struts does not mean that Toyota is gonna slap a D4D in a Tacoma and call it good.
It's designed different, for a different purpose. I think the 3.0 and the new 2.8 D4D is designed the same way the whole truck is designed. Simple and reliable.

I know a lot of folks say that diesels are expensive to own and service. Which is true on a 1 ton Cummins or a Duramax. But the 3.0 D4D is about as simple and easy to service as a Corolla. It's very basic. Needs very few services. Basically oil and air filter's and the diesel fuel filter. You have the drivetrain gear oils like any other truck and a drive belt. The capacitys are much smaller than a big diesel so the price for gear oil and engine oil would be the same as a Tacoma.
It's cheap, easy and basic to own and drive for a long time.

But the key here is basic. It is a basic truck. Would a 3.0 or the new 2.8 D4D be a winner in the Tacoma chassis? I honestly doubt it. Not with the high way speeds of the US and the power demands of the current market truck people. It's just designed for a different need.

Maybe in Australia the Hilux gets a different trim package than here in South America. I know that in Argentina the Hilux does get an Auto trans but my point still stands. It's a different truck and engine for a different purpose over all.

 

[brianjwilson]

For all of the diesel haters... Diesels WERE fantastic. Simple. Efficient. Powerful. Fuel available nearly anywhere.

EPA is ensuring that will never be the case again. Don't blame the diesel, blame the respective governments who are destroying what is probably the best option for trucks....

I agree. They are getting overly complex with very expensive emissions components. From a price standpoint they don't make sense much in bigger trucks unless you really need it.



I still stand by our 2010 VW golf TDI. Yes it does have the DPF. But the price (similarly equipped) compared to a gas turbo golf wasn't that much more. Fuel economy is amazing, and the car is actually fun to drive. Great torque and powerband. 80mph with AC running all day and 45mpg. 30mpg towing an enclosed cargo trailer cross country. 10k mile synthetic oil changes.

Now if I had an option in the tacoma for a good little turbo diesel I would be all over it. Let's face it, price is a concern to some extent but not the end all argument. I spent $4900 to supercharge my tacoma right off the lot. Why? Power and drive ability is greatly enhanced. More confidence passing while hauling at elevation. Will I ever get that money back? Clearly not, and I don't care. Would I have spent $5000 extra for a strong turbo diesel, with a better torque delivery, AND better economy and range? Absolutely. I don't have to consult a spreadsheet for everything I do with my vehicles, I spend a lot of money modifying them (or buying them spec'd out a certain way) because I enjoy them. If everything had to make sense on paper I would be driving some awful Prius or something and hating every second of it.

I recently read that Toyota is discontinuing all supercharging. Meaning they won't be selling superchargers for a thing in their product line any more (yes that means the old models where supercharging programs have been in place for years). They will supply repair parts and warranty for so long as required. Now the tacoma will have (what I'm only assuming at this point) a much more car like engine that will likely require higher RPMs to make power. No diesel options, no superchargers for older models. Seems they are trying to force everyone from the tacoma into a tundra if they want to use it as a truck. Too bad really. All I know is that I'm glad I got my tacoma supercharged when I did. Meanwhile I will figure out how to carry extra gas and just accept that I'll be making a lot of stops on long trips.

 

[Finlay]

For all of the diesel haters... Diesels WERE fantastic. Simple. Efficient. Powerful. Fuel available nearly anywhere.

EPA is ensuring that will never be the case again. Don't blame the diesel, blame the respective governments who are destroying what is probably the best option for trucks....

Also, noisy, smelly, sooty, and in bad for you in a million ways. It is little wonder that they wore out their welcome in America.

Honestly, if you really desire torque, then a hybrid is what you're after. After all, every locomotive you see is electric or diesel-electric for a reason. Electric motors produce gobs of torque at the bottom end of the RPM curve. Have you seen what the Tesla can do 0-60 ? It wouldn't be difficult to adapt that tech to trucks where there are fewer weight constraints and more demand for the benefits (higher torque, lower MPG).