How much off-road capability is enough?

[Tom_D]

FG experience

I drove my FUSO FG with camper on a 2 month trip this summer. We traveled through Alaska and Canada covering about 8700 miles with over 1500 miles on dirt. We traveled the Denali Hwy, Top of the World and the Dempster Hwy and met several MOG campers and one UNICAT on a MAN. While the FG is still slow by comparison to an SUV it was faster, more quiet, comfortable and less expensive to run than a U1300.

BTW I own two MOGs (not campers) so I have some experience with them too.

I think that for extended overland travel on primitive dirt roads the FG is a good vehicle. We have a range of almost 1000 miles and can carry over 3 weeks worth of water and food for two people. However, it is NOT a true off road vehicle and cannot go where my MOGs can.

Tom

 

[63tlf8]

[/QUOTE]..Seems that after extensive world-wide travel, much of which was in his Unimog, he's ready for something faster, cheaper, and more comfortable....[/QUOTE]

G'day, I'm new to this forum but have been following Stephen Stewarts adventures for some years. An interesting series of comments made by members but I wouldn't think that most of the vehicles pictured are really relevant to the discussion:truck: . Stewart usually travelled for in excess of a year at a time so its a true extreme weather home with all that entails rather than a SUV on a few week trip. His observations are adequately supported by "Bigfoot" successfully travelling with them at times. So in essence I think that his observations are well founded and his experience far exceeds most of us to make them.

I have a UNIMOG 404 that has been converted from a Fire truck to a flat bed to carry a demountable camper. Whilst the MOG gets to travel some difficult country, 2WD cars and trucks also get around most of it too. I choose it for a number of reasons:
The extra ability to move in more difficult conditions when weighing 5 tonne rather than 2,
The industrial toughness that is missing even from the FUSO and like,
Mechanical simplicity. Most anything can be fixed by almost anyone, which is not the case with my LR Discovery and any newer 4X4, and
Affordable as it has the lockers, super single wheels and sorted comfortable suspension that have to be added to a FUSO etc to ensure that its potential is realised.

The downside, older ergonomics and more noisy unless you do some work. So, not everymans choice but suits what I do, transiting via back tracks and x-country. I could also get to most places via a road system and you can be sure that I'd be in something with a better and more relaxed cruising speed if that was how I wanted to travel.

 

[jammyauto]

So Tom I'm curious, did you ever get the FG stuck on your alaska trip? How many times did you use the 4wd? Unless I'm driving on the beach or somewhere where slipping off the trail is possible (like mud of ice) I always wait until I need 4wd before engaging and I'm really supprised how seldom I use it, in any of my vehicles.

 

[HiLift Jack]

Ha

We rode our dual sports up a rugged North Georgia mountain trail only to find a school bus at the top of the mountain with four deer hunters having breakfast inside. They were shock we found the trail in the woods and we were shocked to see the bus. They said it took a case of beer and a chainsaw, four of them and a day to locate the bus there.

 

[lqhikers]

Great thread !

Love threads like this as you can tell everyone is remembering great trips and trails.Which brings me to my 2 cents worth.as some one who started out in the 60's (1960)with a stock 4banger willies,went a lot more remote places than i do now ,but that is because everything was open then.Since there were few 4x4 for use you did not see very many 4x4's,but you did see 2x4 ford,chevy,dodge,IH,.My dad started taking me to baja in the early 50's and all the trails roads we now use in Baja were first used by 2x4 cars and trucks,the first time we broke down below San Felipe we were towed back on the old road by a 1947 chevy pu!. When ever i look back at some of the old pictures of the mapping trucks(4x4 Chevy carryalls)that the auto club used i wonder if we have come very far in "having" the ideal expedition vech.! and yes i do like the ac in our taco on hot summer days on the trail! drive slow and enjoy "its the journey"

 

[Lynn]

All the discussion of 2wds in places where they shouldn't be reminds me of a story I've heard several times over the years.

My uncle (may he rest in peace) was a big-time 'coon hunter. For years he hunted out of a 2wd truck. Then he got a Willy's flat fender.

He used to say that he hated that Willy's, and was always getting it stuck, "Cuz with the truck I knew better than to go there!"

I guess that's what you call a false sense of security!

 

[Chucaro]

I have read Stephen page with lot of interest. In his page he ask for feed back from the readers which I done so.
his article addresses the vehicle and capabilities and choices of an ideal vehicle based on the technical aspects of it.
He forgot one factor which is overlooked by many people and regretful by future buyers and it is the physical and health capabilities of the driver in an event where physical strength does not have a substitute. i am here talking about basic things like change a tire which can weight several kilos or placed in a poor place in the vehicle. If the driver can not do this task alone, then does matter if it is the best Unimog in the world, it still not the best vehicle for that person.
In his reply to my email he write:

Hi,

Thanks for the feed back, you make a good point.

I imagine that the perception of the problem may be greater than the reality. Although I'm 60 and only moderately fit I have changed the 75kg wheels on my Mog several times without problem because I prepared a couple of long levers (for lifting the wheel up to the hub and up to the spare wheel holder) and a set of wooden blocks and I practiced at home.

On the road when I had to change a wheel in a crowd in India I paid one man $5 to keep everybody away (and not nick my tools) and $5 to another man who did some of the the heavy work. I have only had two or three punctures so far.

Thanks again

Stephen
[end of Quote]

In my opinion and based in Australian conditions the ideal vehicle has to be 1)Diesel and preferable not electronics dependant
2) Have a sufficient large payload for water,fuel & provisions for the intended trip
3)The owner or crew be able to perform basic repairs without assistance,
4) The weight of the vehicle cannot be so great that it cannot be rescued by a similar vehicle in case of bogging in a remote place.
5)Without compromise the above points have supension, under body protection and ground clearance sufficient for the intented trip.

A common selection of vehicles for this trips (around Oz) are Toyota Landcrusier 4.2 diesel, Nissan Patrol 4.2 diesel, Defenders Tdi.
All of them are capable of carrying a reasonable large payload. and driven by people of all ages and physical conditions
Cheers

 

[OS-Aussie]

Mate, you a Brissie boy or what ?

I am from Dalby on the Darling Downs and my wife is from St George and my folks live in Moree.

Talking about changing tires you have not lived until you change super singles, whole new world of thinking, all about being smart not strong. That also makes me think I have not seen a split rim for a long time.

I don't think I am that old, but even I can remember many of the roads out that way changing from gravel to single lane to sealed. We have a picture of the road between Toowoomba and Dalby from the fifties and it is single lane dirt.

So we do have it very easy these days......
I think they drove slower those days and saw more of the country, this is also less likely to damage your vehicle. Did you ever see that show about the Aboriginal bush mechanics, I think it gives us all some room to think about the truth of travel. The vehicle is a medium for the adventure not the adventure.

 

[Chucaro]

Hi, no I am not a Brisi boy., currently I live in Moore Park Beach 450 km north east of Brisbane, but I am moving a lot, from Sydney, NSW to Childres Qld, to Hobart, Tasmania, to Sydney, then Queensland and now home base for sale and go touring again.
When I was building professionally ocean going steel yachts we learned that a true and safe yacht was the one that the crew can manage in any eventuality. generally up to 15 tos displacement or 40 foot yacht.
This rule I think is applicable for exploration rigs here help is not available.
Just because the person is old or fragile do not need to give up the dream.
Cheers

 

[OS-Aussie]

Hi, no I am not a Brisi boy., currently I live in Moore Park Beach 450 km north east of Brisbane, but I am moving a lot, from Sydney, NSW to Childres Qld, to Hobart, Tasmania, to Sydney, then Queensland and now home base for sale and go touring again.
When I was building professionally ocean going steel yachts we learned that a true and safe yacht was the one that the crew can manage in any eventuality. generally up to 15 tos displacement or 40 foot yacht.
This rule I think is applicable for exploration rigs here help is not available.
Just because the person is old or fragile do not need to give up the dream.
Cheers

Small world, I have a Army friend who owns a security company in Bundy.
I spent a couple of years with the Dept of Environment in Rocky.

You are in a great location, but you moved from Tassie which is my retirement goal. I want to be somewhere on the Tassie west coastal area.

Dreams only stop when we die !!! There is so much to see and so little time, good to see you are living life !!

 

[Chucaro]

I built steel ocean going yachts in Tasmania for few years and it is a beautiful place. My son live in Hobart.
At the en of the month I am driving to Tasmania and exploring the west coast. I hope to take a lot of photos which I am planning to post in this forum.
Do not think that it is impossible dream for you, the real estate in Tasmania outside the large cities is very cheap.
I like a lot the far north east coast of Tassie, the weather is magnificent and you are relatively close to Launceston.
Have a look in the map just north of St Helens, a place call Bay of Fires.

KEEP THE DREAM A LIVE :camping:

 

[OS-Aussie]

Yep, been to the wineries in the Bay of Fires. The North East has some very nice spots, but not wild like the Western side. The taste of Tassie event is also very good value.

My wife loved Pete's garden from Gardening Australia on the ABC (Hobart)

Then there is this Christmas time event (first one in)

Now the North East.......

Ok, I am guessing that this is now off topic......... sorry

 

[Chucaro]

You can bet that it is going to motivate some people :26_7_2:

 

[Tom_D]

Reply to Jimmyauto

Sorry I haven't been on the forum for a couple of weeks...

Jimmyauto asked if we ever got stuck on our AK trip.

We needed to negotiate some interesting muddy and off camber tracks and we never had any trouble. The FG with 4 wheel drive and limited slip really has pretty good traction if you are careful not to slide off weak shoulders.

I use 4 wheel drive/ high range on most rough dirt roads even thought 2 wheel drive is all that is really needed. This is a common tactic that is done to distribute the stress over all the whole drive line instead of just the rear end.

Also, I do tend to use 4 wheel drive early to avoid spinning tires. My FG has locking from hubs so on the highway we disengage the front drive to save wear and fuel.

Tom

 

[TeriAnn]

I agree with the general consensus the the best vehicle depends upon where you are going, how long you will be about it and what features are important to you while being about it.

I think about 80% of my trip driving is going between places I want to visit and photograph and some of those places I want to visit are on paved and maintained dirt roads.

Sometimes I think I would be best off with a diesel Sprint based RV. A front & rear winch, tall tyres might even get me into places that are considered easy off roading. But I do like to visit places that are a bit more remote with medium & sometimes difficult off road trails to get there. So my vehicle is set up for worst case just because i don't want to be restricted from places I like to go.

We all need to start with some platform. I started out with my farm work truck, a 1960 long wheelbase Land Rover. It was stock with a winch on the front that got used mostly for stringing fence or getting my tractor (Ford 631) unstuck. I already had the truck so it seemed to be a good place to start.

I started by throwing my back packing gear & camera in the back and just going out on trips.

My philosophy is to learn how to drive my vehicle to its limits, learn those limits and THEN to make modifications as needed when I wanted to go beyond the vehicle's limits. And if I break something more than once to upgrade what I broke so it wont brake again.

Anyone with deep pockets can buy a vehicle and throw a a lot of money on do-dads without knowing if they are needed or even if they will all work together on that vehicle in the places they envision going.

I think the key is going places you want to go, learn how to best handle your vehicle under those conditions and make modifications when you reach limits that you want to go beyond. Sometimes it means abandoning your base vehicle and starting all over again with one that experience has taught you better fits your needs. Sometimes it just means incremental upgrades over time as experience says an upgrade is needed.

Long wheelbase Land Rovers are notorious for breaking rear axles so swapping the stock LR axle assembly with the heavy duty version (dana 60 built under license) was one of my first modifications.

My vehicle camping style epiphany came when I was in a campground. I was sitting on a my sleeping bag which was on a small ground cloth, cooking a freeze dried meal on my Svea 123 single burner stove when a Honda Civvic pulled into the next camp site. Out came a tent, cots, chairs, table, multiple lanterns, ice box, big Coleman stove and more.

So here I was holding a pan from my mess kit over a single burner camp stove, cooking in the dark, waiting for my meal to cook so I could heat some water for a cuppa tea. I looked at my camp site, looked at their camp site. looked that their little Honda then at my big 109 Land Rover and suddenly figured out what was wrong with this picture. I really didn't have to car camp using the same gear I used hiking the Yosemite high country. Duh!

So I switched over to vehicle camping gear. 3 or 4 years later I found myself setting up camp at night during a windy rain storm. I got my tarp mostly hung as an awning when a gust pulled a corner out of my hand. The tarp whipped about knocked off my propane lantern which broke and caught the tarp on fire (quickly extinguished). I slept inside the Land Rover and camped inside as the rain continued for the next few days. It was awfully uncomfortable and i was catching my hair on the roof vents on too regular a basis. So I made the decision to convert my Land Rover into an RV.

Since I like to cook and like my comfort I made the interior as comfortable as I could (I like to play house on the trail).

​

All this is a long winded way of saying I was lucky to have started with an good solid easily extensible vehicle platform, used it to its limits and extended those limits I wanted to go beyond in travel capability, reliability and comfort. Not all at once but gradually as I learned the limits and evolved my travel style.

You can spend a lot of money all at once on a platform that may or not meet your needs, may or not be comfortable enough and may or not be reliable when finished or you can take it slowly starting with a stock or near stock vehicle, learn what it can do, change horse early on if needed then modify that vehicle to best fit your needs. Learn your needs, your vehicle's capabilities first then modify to meet those needs.