How much off-road capability is enough?

[Scott Brady]

Well I'll be. No straps or winches, then?

I certainly didn't say that , though less than you would imagine.

It is rare for a vehicle NOT to need a winch or strap on that trail though, especially the more moderately built ones.

My Tacoma never needed a strap or winch, which was cool (of course, Chris' excellent driving helped). We only kicked on the front locker twice, for about two feet total.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I certainly didn't say that , though less than you would imagine.

It is rare for a vehicle NOT to need a winch or strap on that trail though, especially the more moderately built ones.

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek there, but I assumed that Lynn's original premise was that a stocker was all that is necessary. If you presume that expedition travel entails a lot of time alone, then I would say having lockers, winch, better suspension would be awfully darn useful if there's no one on the other end of your strap (the whole getting a Liberty through the Rubicon solo in my post). Get my drift?

 

[Scott Brady]

Get my drift?

Absolutely my friend, and my choice in vehicles and "mods" certainly reflects that too

 

[HMR]

Good topic

The biggest weakness to my rig is not the lack of a winch, snorkel, etc...
It's ME, the driver.














I'm working on changing that.

 

[Spikepretorius]

The only real requirements are 1. Seriously tough bash plates underneath and 2. a set of good tyres. Everything else is a bonus

I firmly believe out of everything I've done to my trucks the bashplates were the best mod. Your vehicle becomes so much more capable when you're not scared to death everytime you hear a knock underneath.

And if you get in a real tricky rocky situation you can, instead of trying to pick a safe line and possibly get damage, you can rather pick the rocky line and lay the truck down on the rocky surface and slide it like a sled. If you're on the rocks they can't bash you. I know this sounds extreme but it happened to me. We were doing a mountain trail which had eroded quite badly from floods and almost at the summit the route was blocked by a boulder. We had to gingerly turn around and get back down which wasn't quite the same as coming up. Where it took us an hour or two to go up it took us to sunset to get down.

So, first on the shopping list for me is 4mm super tough bashplates and then you can go most places

 

[Scott Brady]

Ok, found the pictures.

This is an S1 KK liberty, which means a prototype built to production specifications and everything works.

Photo Rock

Walker Hill (I think)

 

[Christophe Noel]

My trip to the Arctic (minus the Peel River) could have easily been done in a Subaru (still pulling the trailer).

Kudos to you for including that factoid. I think statements like that help add perspective and hopefully temper reservations people might have with their current set up. You'd be horrified to hear how much "overlanding" I did in a crappy Ford Explorer. I thought I was "road tripping" as mods and overlanding were just out of my scope of experience. I'm learning.

In '93, a buddy of mine bought an H1. He bashed his way up a trail in Colorado only to find a late 80s Subaru wagon parked at the top of the trail. Hilarious. Those Subbies.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Ok, found the pictures.

This is an S1 KK liberty, which means a prototype built to production specifications and everything works.

Very cool. Goes to show that it's easy to lose our focus on why we do this when we're dazzled by all the gadgets and modifications.

In '93, a buddy of mine bought an H1. He bashed his way up a trail in Colorado only to find a late 80s Subaru wagon parked at the top of the trail. Hilarious. Those Subbies.

This is really more common than you'd think. We'll be bashing and banging our way up a trail, get to the top and find a 1980 VW Rabbit or 1992 Geo Metro sitting there. Damnedest thing and really sort of embarrassing when you think about how much money and time we spend on these things. Now to be fair it's pretty unlikely they didn't stop there because they ripped open their oil pan and it's also pretty likely that we'll be taking the car (or pieces of it) out for the next few years. But, still, a little clearance, good tires and a level head go a really long way.

 

[Robthebrit]

In '93, a buddy of mine bought an H1. He bashed his way up a trail in Colorado only to find a late 80s Subaru wagon parked at the top of the trail. Hilarious. Those Subbies.

Thats happend to me too a bunch a times - The best was a 2wd VW bus (not a synchro) sitting proudly at the top.

Rob

 

[njtaco]

My trip to the Arctic (minus the Peel River) could have easily been done in a Subaru (still pulling the trailer).

So it depends on what your objectives are, which will define the vehicle specification.

Goes to show that it's easy to lose our focus on why we do this when we're dazzled by all the gadgets and modifications.

It is threads like this, and quotes like above from so many expo members that keep my feet firmly grounded. (Well, my lack of a budget helps too.) Every time I have to decide whether to buy SAWs or Bilsteins (now waiting for the Bilsteins to arrive) or any other modification decision, I have to consciously remember I'm not a sheep, and don't rock crawl. My needs are different for my truck than most. I'd rather ask my wife to go to Vermont, Maine, West Va, or anywhere else than feel like I have to explain that we can't go because I just ordered an ARB bumper (which I didn't).

I know very well that my Tacoma is not holding me back, and even stock it is a capable truck. I'll wait for the right modifications to come to me, and enjoy the truck like it is until then. I can turn the key and drive probably 90+ percent of the roads in the USA now, paved, dirt, or otherwise, and most places elsewhere (within reason).

ExPo is great for encouraging add-ons, equiptment, etc., and it is fun to dream big and web-wheel. After all the information is sorted and advice offered the genuine feel from most members, for most trips, will be "join us on a trip, we will help you along" instead of "your truck isn't good enough".

 

[Redline]

Well I'm no Scott Brady or Chris Marzonie, but seeing your posts about the Liberty has me encouraged. Maybe my little 4Runner can make it on the Rubicon as it is currently set-up (with lots of careful spotting/driving... need to go mid-week to avoid the crowds and being in a hurry) But with lots of trips planned in 2008, it might have to wait another year.

James

Ok, found the pictures.

This is an S1 KK liberty, which means a prototype built to production specifications and everything works.

Photo Rock

Walker Hill (I think)

 

[ChuckB]

ExPo is great for encouraging add-ons, equiptment, etc., and it is fun to dream big and web-wheel. After all the information is sorted and advice offered the genuine feel from most members, for most trips, will be "join us on a trip, we will help you along" instead of "your truck isn't good enough".

That's exactly why I enjoy this forum more than any other!!

 

[Lynn]

OK, I asked the original question based on remembering a line Mr. Stewart wrote. Since Rhode Trip and Haven were kind enough to supply a link to the original article, I have had the opportunity to go back and read it again.

It's pretty clear what he meant. I've quoted the paragraph in question below and added emphasis:

Take the case of the 4x4 version of the Mercedes 815D (an on-road truck) and a Mercedes U3000 Unimog (a true off-road truck).

Here's a picture of an 815D, and Mr. Stewart's 'Mog:

Both vehicles have a maximum gross weight of 7500kg and both are 4x4. However the Unimog has 20 inch wheels (rather than 17 inch), twice the ground clearance (with portal axles) a 51° departure angle (rather than around 20&#176, front as well as rear differential lock, a raised air intake (for fording rivers) a pressurized transmission system (for fording rivers), disk brakes all round, a parking brake that will hold on a 45° slope (if you dare!) etc. etc.

It is also worth noting that the intended load distribution of the two vehicles is very different. The Unimog, like many true off-road vehicles is designed for a near equal load on each axle, whereas the 815D is intended to have substantially more weight on the rear axle (which consequently has double wheels).

But the Unimog also uses considerably more fuel per kilometer on the highway (say 70% more?) and is far less pleasant to drive than the 815D. The U3000 chassis/cab probably weighs 1000kg more than the 4x4 815D. Most importantly it costs a lot more.

In very round terms I believe that a 2x4 815D chassis/cab costs 45,000 Euros, a 4x4 815D chassis/cab costs 62,000 Euros and a U3000 Unimog costs more than 100,000 Euros!
In my opinion the extra cost of a 4x4 version of an on-road truck (if available) is worthwhile, but the extra cost of a true "off-road" vehicle is not.

Seems that after extensive world-wide travel, much of which was in his Unimog, he's ready for something faster, cheaper, and more comfortable.

Wish we had those 815Ds here...

 

[Rhode Trip]

We also should mention Steven Stuarts definition:
"By "overland journey" I mean something considerably more demanding than a two week trip to the South of France but less demanding than pioneering a new route across the Sahara. Most of what I call overland journeys would:

• Be more than (say) ten weeks long.
• Involve significant travel on poor, often dirt roads.
• Be wholly or partly in sparsely populated areas of the world without official "campsites".
• Often involve travel at high altitude or in hot, cold or very wet conditions.

"

ie: bad roads, but not 'no roads at all'. At some point, anyway, 'need' becomes replaced by 'want.' If I got to pick between the 815D and the Mog? Not a tough decision.

 

[OS-Aussie]

You know that the funny part of this is the number of two wheel drive trucks and cars you see being driven by all the locals at all these alleged remote places.

Vehicle mods are often done to make it easier or safer, or maybe less demanding. We have all gotten a little soft with after market toys. However if I look at my wrangler I will be silent on that subject, but my Cherokee is stock except for some protection options.

I think that the Cherokee fits the NA expedition theme and ability to go to most of these locations. However my wrangler will tow my trailer across Dusy and Cherokee will never drive that trail.

So trail ratings 3 or less 98% and hardcore 4 to 5+ maybe 2%.
Which is nicer to sit in for 10 hours straight on the highway......
let me think.............:safari-rig: Cherokee

So should you spend all that money to drive a small number of possible trails.......
I guess it depends on what floats your boat....... needed maybe not, fun yes..


Be honest there is also a degree of image in these activities.....
You know, like those "individuals" who ride Harley's, but look the same
Expo people who dress and outfit the same......
I guess it is like most clubs it makes picking our people easier.........
You can see the vehicle or people and know which group ..........

NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.........