How much off-road capability is enough?

[Ozarker]

:Wow1:

To me, this is one of the best threads here for us newbies. It's an oldie with valid points for anyone starting off and perhaps for anyone with experience and wondering about their next vehicle. Some here may go down memory lane.

As a newbie, it took me a considerable amount of time and research to decide on what I needed vs. what I might want. Comments here might shorten that search for other newbies, too late for me as I made a choice. I was also very happy to see Subbies mentioned in a favorable light.

Some of the comments remind me of my outings years ago in VW bugs, if I got stuck I just got out picked up the front end and moved it! I had a VW bus that seemed to go anywhere. Several camping trips in the woods with my family in a Volvo 145 and toured Europe in, camping on a beach area in Amsterdam. I had a '77 (?) Ford Escort SS that really took a beating and kept going with FWD. And a Dodge van that I customized that never got stuck on river banks.

The longest venture I'm considering is to Deadhorse, Ak, just because, and to hear that a stock Subbie can get further north is enough for me. So, this thread just save me alot of $$$$$! :coffeedrink:

 

[DiploStrat]

Never done the multi-year trips, but I have done a few multi-week and multi-month trips. When considering third world overlanding, as opposed to 4x4 rock/mud crawling, the biggest needs are things like:

-- Livability of the camper. It gets to be a chore to take care of a chore every night. Easier is better.

-- Durability. Washboard/potholes are more of a problem than mud or rocks. You want a vehicle that is sturdy enough to stand up to the strain and not damage itself.

-- Finally, fuel/water/food/spare parts capacity are important when you are traveling beyond major roads or places where your particular vehicle may be common.

As always on these things, YMMV

 

[charlieaarons]

When you are on another continent, 8k mi from home,
the key factors are reliability, livability, storage, serviceability.
Pure offroadability is less important.

Charlie
s. Australia, headed north

 

[sg1]

How much off-road capability is enough? It depends on what you want to do. If you want to go on a multi-month or even multi-year expedition in the Americas (Panamericana) or Europe/Asia (Silkroad) you do not even need 4x4, although it is of course nice to have. In Africa it is very helpful to have a robust 4x4 but in my experience (with the exception of the Sahara) superior offroad capabilities (Unimog) are not necessary as long as you avoid the rainy season in Central Africa. The Sahara is, of course fantastic (I crossed it several times in the 80´s) but not safe right now and Central Africa in the rainy season is no fun anyway (I have been there for business). Therefore any reliable truck or van with good ground clearance especially if it has AWD or 4x4 will technically do. The locals usually do not have 4x4 buses or trucks.
Other practical considerations are, in my view, more important for the choice of the right vehicle. On a long trip it will have to be repaired and serviced. This is a lot easier if your truck is used by the locals in your "target area". Mercedes and the medium sized Asian trucks (Toyota, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Hyundai) and, to a lesser extend Ford and Iveco have a worldwide service network for medium sized trucks.
Tire size is important too. You will most likely have to repair/replace tires. This is at least very expensive if not a serious problem if your size is not available in the country you travel to.
In many of the more interesting countries there are few (if any) comfortable campsites with clean facilities and surprisingly few unpopulated areas. Once you stop people with a great interest in you and your vehicle will appear even in the seemingly most remote places.To avoid unnecessary tensions especially with your better half you should be able to eat and sleep in your vehicle and to have your own clean shower and (cassette)toilet in case of bad weather and for better privacy.
Another point to consider is fuel quality. Low sulphur diesel and adblue are usually not available in 3rd world countries and sometimes the diesel is dirty and/or contains water. Modern common rail diesel engines can be used (the locally sold trucks and buses have them too) but you need good filters to remove dirt and water. DPF and the like are likely to eventually cause problems and should be removed.
But I think the most important is to actually go and do the trip you have always been dreaming of and to have an open mind for other ways of life.
Regards
Stefan

 

[grizzlyj]

The only time we could have done with more speed was when travelling with faster vehicles. Just accelerating from a junction through the gears and a landy will be in the distance once you've reached 50mph which frustrates both parties over time.

We recently drove the Dades Gorge in Morocco in our Mog camper, 4-5 days after heavy rain. A few km before the end the track had mostly been washed away, and the locals had created a diversion with too much sideslope for my liking in our tall camper.

The 3.5ton Austrian Bremach camper we were travelling with also had similar concerns, but after 15 minutes of appraisal and a few rocks carefully placed they cleared the difficult patch slowly and with a spotter. Two big rocks that they squeezed through with shunts were not possible for us being a whole 500mm wider sidewall to sidewall.

While they were slowly and carefully making their way through, a local unladen 110 sped through an entirely different and new route without stopping to check first, nearly tipping over with one rear tyre well up in the air, only his speed pushed him back onto all 4, but he didn't seem fussed!

A local two wheel drive pick up also sped through, using speed and his trashed front bumper to push his way through the churned up river bed, although he needed a few run ups in places.

The pick up then stopped to help us make a route for the Mog. I'd decided that just straight down the water channel was easiest and flattest, so 8 of us spent nearly 2 hours moving rocks. Driving it felt quite uneventful, although low range and a good spotter were essential.

If our camper was lower we could have risked more tilt.

If our truck did not have such clearance or gearing the construction task would have been much greater, or even retacing our steps then becoming the best choice.

The chance to view 4 such different vehicles take on the same obstacle was quite enlightening, and with varying seat-of-the-pants "popo-factor" as our Austrian friends called it! Only one vehicle could provide a hot shower in privacy afterwards though

 

[Bigjerm]

Great example of this on a local ride this past weekend. Everything from a newer Dodge Powerwagon, Land Cruiser, Land Rover, some JK's, an Xterra and my LJ. My LJ is way more geared towards the rocks with the heavy tires, antirock on the softest setting, auto lockers, blah blah blah and I made every obstacle on the trip look like a joke while some other rigs struggled. But I promise between the obstacles and the trip to and from our meeting spot was much more enjoyable for everyone else but me! Also no room once I packed tools, spare parts, chairs, stove, camp table, cooler, ect because I keep my spare inside the Jeep for many reasons. So while I had amazing off road capability, I didn't have much in comfort or cargo.

Another example was the Mog in our group. Large and made the obstacles easy as well. BUT being as big as it was the driver had to watch the lines he took and go around some areas with low trees. Not to mention a very low top speed for on road travel.

 

[1sweetvan]

VW Kombiwagen. For decades people traversed the globe and got pretty far off the beaten path with 2wd, 40 HP, air cooling, no A/C and minimal heat. Not to mention no Internet or GPS either. Sometimes, less is more.

 

[Hilldweller]

VW Kombiwagen. For decades people traversed the globe and got pretty far off the beaten path with 2wd, 40 HP, air cooling, no A/C and minimal heat. Not to mention no Internet or GPS either. Sometimes, less is more.

For some reason your post reminded me of these overlanders...

 

[1sweetvan]

I'm not sure why my post reminded you of that, but it was a good laugh after a very long day. Thanks.

 

[Hilldweller]

I'm not sure why my post reminded you of that, but it was a good laugh after a very long day. Thanks.

It was the getting back to basics theme.
We do tend to get lost in our quest for farkles and comfort and forget that a good fire and sleeping bag will carry you through.

I can remember VW bus camping too. Struggling up little hills in the Poconos, getting passed by bicycles...

 

[1sweetvan]

All you really need is a good Crown Victoria. Just google" Crown Victoria Moab"

 

[RoosterBooster]

wow... reading some of the posts in this thread made me feel a lot better about my idea to not bother (with the expense, reduced comfort and fuel economy) of a driven front axle on my next Rig
(however , i plan on a fully locked rear end).
as others pointed out flexible suspension, tire size, belly clearance & armor as well as excellent approach and departure angle are more important for long distance travel.
in some of my past adventures i actually found myself in more trouble when i drove with "no problem ... i have 4wd" in mind.
i think you get "too comfortable" with the ability of your vehicle and take more unneeded risk (or use less common sense lol )
... a fully locked rear and a carefully picked line gets you already in a lot of remote places:smiley_drive:

btw
my new project started out as a mainly "on road" MDT based long distance Tow/Travel rig ... but then i made the mistake and followed a link to over here and started reading....
now i got the bug (again) to travel and explore more of the (remote) beauty of America... and adjust my rig plan accordingly :safari-rig:

 

[AmericaOverland]

Be honest there is also a degree of image in these activities.....

You know, like those "individuals" who ride Harley's, but look the same
Expo people who dress and outfit the same......

There's that... I dress that way because I like to be comfortable, and my job allows me to do that. After all, I work for REI. You could say it's a reflection of my feelings and my life story. My feeling about expo clothes is that I feel like I'm always "adventure ready," and I don't feel that way when I have to dress to the nines. In fact, I feel vulnerable and trapped. I want to get out and play. My life story is about being able to do something just because I can and ignore people saying, "You can't this, you can't that." My clothes remind me to think "Let's do it." My dress clothes remind me, "You are ordered to do this and that. You must do this and that." Not to mention they aren't comfortable, especially the pumps. Try outrunning a bear or climbing a tree out of his reach in those shoes!

Fortunately, I have the right reason for wearing them. I don't care what anybody thinks.

 

[AmericaOverland]

I'm not sure why my post reminded you of that, but it was a good laugh after a very long day. Thanks.

X2 minus the very long day. I'm off today. :sombrero:

 

[RoosterBooster]

i actually have also a story to share (sorry, may has some bad English; its not my native language):

we was on a tour in the French/Italian Alps (exploring the WW1 mountaintop heavy gun fortresses that have been places of extended and fierce battles... before the invention of the bomber airplane a mountain top fortress was next to impossible to take)
i was the only 4x4 with my jeep wrangler (the rest of the group was enduro bikes; my brother on his Bimmer and friends on XT`s and KTM`s ... and naturally i was carrying all the extra luggage for them so they could enjoy fairly light bikes )
my jeep was all tricked out with lockers and big tires and we climbed towards one of the peaks on a badly washed out WW1 road with lots of tunnels (some with completely ice covered tracks) and some short snow sections ....
so after a challenging climb we finally arrive at the top fortress and i feel like the king of the world to have made the peak :wings:



.... only to find a Italian family at a picnic ... next to a old Fiat sedan :Wow1:

they told us that whenever they got stuck they got out and lifted the little Fiat off the rock and went on... and simply pushed it over the snow sections
crazy Italians :smiley_drive: