&*!#@* Hunters!

[Jonathan Hanson]

Beilieve me, I'd be all in favor of an IQ test before someone can buy an ATV or a gun, but I don't think that one will fly.

Part of what we're dealing with here is the simple downside of living in a free society. Start down that slope of testing, education, permits, and restrictions, and you wind up in England, where personal freedoms are vanishing (and the crime rate is soaring).

Gun control advocates often point to automobiles as an example of licensing and testing, to which I always simply respond, "And how many licensed drivers do you know who shouldn't be driving?" Licensed drivers kill more people every year than unlicensed gun owners. Bad example.

Actually, I would be totally in favor of a nationwide firearms owner license. You take a course, pass a background check, get fingerprinted, certify at a range that you are competent. Then - that's it, no more restrictions. No magazine capacity limits, no one gun per month purchasing, carry it however you like. Want a full-auto HK MP5? No problem. But that one won't fly either.

I'm afraid that the only way to control much of the behavior we've been discussing is punitive. All of the people involved know that trespassing is wrong. Most know they can't shoot within 1/4 mile of buildings. They know they shouldn't throw Bud Lite cans on the ground. They don't care. You walk up and in your friendly manner point out that littering is rude and they'll laugh at you. Hit 'em with a $500 fine and they stop laughing.

 

[Suty]

I do not own a ATV, I have hunted and still hunt with those that do....Fortunatly, those that I hunt with are responsible and take care where they tread. However, I must wonder every morning when they fire up all the ATV's and head out, what game they hope to see?? I will stay in camp, sip another good cup of Camp Coffee, pull on my Boots, grab my Longbow,Quiver and head out Walking. Its amazing what you see at a Quiet 3mph vs. a very Noisy 20mph....? Thats right, I do this because I Love Bowhunting and the Outdoors not to see how fast I can get from stand to stand or how much Noise I can make. I now Hunt the Cadena Ranch in S.Tejas, they don't allow ATV"s on their 13,000 Acres. Casadores de Tejas, Suty

 

[Photog]

I see lots of talk of ATV control, limits and training of hunters, even suggestions of Eugenics to help the situation. Nothing on gun control.

Seems a little unreasonable to suggest we place limitations upon everything else and allow the weapons to remain at liberty ???

I would have thought that reasonably minded people such as ourselves, even the pro hunters and NRA members would see that this is part of the equation. Or is it so sacred a subject that we dare not bring it up?

Martyn,
There are many weapons to hunt with, firearms are but one type. Hunting is not a Right. Gun ownership is a Right (2nd Ammendment). The Right to own firearms is to keep our government under control, and to keep our country safe from invaders. The Bill of Rights are a set of controls on the government, not on the people. Hunting wild game is not the reason for the 2nd Ammendment.

Hunting is not a Right. It is a privilege, like driving a car, ATV, etc. Don't confuse the two issues, just because you may use a firearm while hunting.

If ATV owners, and hunters can not follow the law while engaging in their sports; those priveleges may be severely restricted, or removed.

 

[Photog]

Jonathan,
It sounds like you live in a very rural area. Would it be safe and legal for you to do target practice on your property?

If so; maybe you could set target against the hill where the trespassers like to sit, and conduct some target practice periodically. This might make your property less appealing to the "hunters".

You could post signs suggesting that there is target shooting and it could be dangerous, right next to the "No Trespassing" signs. Similar to the signs around the Gun Club's property.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

We do live in a very rural area. I can shoot from my porch if I feel like it. Roseann and I determined that the next time we had hunters obviously using our watering hole as a focal point, we'd head down to the combat range we have set up in the wash and do a bit of practicing.

 

[DesertDouglas]

Jonathan--great idea, but make sure you use "Tannerite" targets.

 

[Photog]

Does a "Tannerite" target have a negative effect on trespassing hunters.

Edit: link I now understand.:violent-smiley-031:

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Oh yeah:

 

[calamaridog]

I see lots of talk of ATV control, limits and training of hunters, even suggestions of Eugenics to help the situation. Nothing on gun control.

Seems a little unreasonable to suggest we place limitations upon everything else and allow the weapons to remain at liberty ???

I would have thought that reasonably minded people such as ourselves, even the pro hunters and NRA members would see that this is part of the equation. Or is it so sacred a subject that we dare not bring it up?

I think reasonably minded people realize this issue has absolutely nothing to do with gun control. The types of guns being used for hunting are NOT even the types of guns being considered for gun control.

I have no issue discussing the idea of gun control where it applies.

 

[calamaridog]

I was raised on hunting and fishing and to respect the sport, the weapons, the surroundings and the animals you take...but I am continually depressed at how little common sense and respect go into these activities.

I think Dan hit the nail on the 'ol head right here.

This is an issue of outdoor ethics and education.

 

[Mike S]

Jonathan, I think they might appreciate the double "WOP" of that .375 H&H. Would be a nice attention getter.

 

[BigAl]

Well, this thread just got interesting

Oh yeah:

 

[Haggis]

Registration for all ATVs is the obvious first answer. Here's a statistic to scare you:

The number of titled all-terrain vehicles in Arizona went from 51,000 in December 1998 to more than 230,000 in July 2006.

As far as ATV registration goes, just remember that although we have had the registration system for approximately 8 years, I'm online complaining about ATVs. It's darn hard to get a tag plate off a trespassing ATV that's careening away at thirty mph throwing muck and dust up in its wake. I don't have any idea if or how much PAs registration system has helped with ATV trespass but it's put more money into the insurance industry.

Jonathan, the ridge that these "sportsman" are using to glass your waterhole, is it on your property? Can you do anthing to make it unuseable to them? Plant a cacti garden? Raise a visual break of shrubbery or fencing that will impair their useage of that spot? Install razor wire and unexploded ordinance signs? Or is the trespass to widespread for such tactics to work? It's to hard to enjoy life when your on guard duty all the time.

 

[Martyn]

I think reasonably minded people realize this issue has absolutely nothing to do with gun control. The types of guns being used for hunting are NOT even the types of guns being considered for gun control.

I have no issue discussing the idea of gun control where it applies.

I guess our ideas on gun control and where it applies are miles apart.

My question would be why not control the guns used for hunting? It may keep them out of the hands of the "ATV driving, environment bashing, beer swilling, low IQ, hunters" that I have been hearing about. Shouldn't effect the law abiding skilled hunters.

 

[1leglance]

I try to be a person of solutions...
These ideas are based on not having seen your property but on just what you 2 have said here.....if anything pops into my head (lots of empty space there) once I see your place in dec I will chime in again...

-If there is a place that folks are at all the time I would post a sign stating there is a house within illegal shooting range and any shots fired will be assumed to be intentional and may be responded to with deadly force.
-Is there any way to change the landscape of the area the hunters favor to make it less appealing for them but still "natural" ?
-Since a hunter wants to be quiet and stealthy and not have game disturbed then I would walk towards them shouting "don't shoot, hiker present" and maybe an airhorn so that they realize you are trying to be safe as you approach (and of course that spot is no good for hunting now) then have your talk with them...Just so you know this is private property and no hunting, our house is near, wife and I hike alot and don't want to get shot and oh by the way what is your name in case anything bad happens.
- Check the laws on trespassing and your obligations & rights to keep folks off your land.
- Talk with your county sheriff, game & fish and every other agency about your "fear for your life" (a legal phrase) in these situations and ask for phone numbers you can call if someone is spotted on your land and scoping your house.

Honestly I have found that keeping, my cool, helping them see the safety side and "you wouldn't want to be the person who killed someone" and lastly and often most importantly I introduce myself by name and ask their name at the beginning and use thier name frequently since that takes it out of confrontational to educational...I hope...not always. There are those folks who will bluster and in your case since it is your land you can just stay there, talk make noise, write down info about them and their weapons (in case of a shooting), thier rigs...a nice thing to note is tires and tell them "in case of property damage it is important to note your tire)...

I you don't have/want a fence then frequent signs...

That is all off the top of my head...making it NOT the place to be is a form of changing things, and good luck.