INEOS Grenadier

[Timcampsallover]

So you are a pre-order customer and will get to test before you are locked into buying?

Somebody else stated they would be likely be serviced at a BMW dealership - does that mean BMW dealerships will be selling them too? I just ask because according to IG they have "Sales and Service at launch" and they are one and the same.

Yes, I’m a pre order buyer dating back to the first opening of reservations. There’s a dealership in Tampa and Atlanta, Roswell actually. I expected BMW dealers to lock in the sales and service but in my case I picked Atlanta/Roswell and it’s a Nissan flagged dealership. I’ve been super busy so I haven’t had a chance to check into the other marques and locations but the Nissan ….was very surprising to say the least.

Yes, we also get to finally test drive the demonstration Grenadiers with -0- obligation to complete the purchase. I believe the $450.00 we put down in the beginning may finally be non refundable but that’s all we would be out if for any reason we just don’t like how it drives on the road at speed.

I will say, there is a designated brand or experience manager who is planning to fully support the Grenadier vehicle based lifestyle and he says they will be a full service dealership providing all factory and aftermarket accessories and mentioned some experience opportunities likely coming soon as well. It seemed like they are serious about this being a very bespoke type of experience while acknowledging it’s a utility vehicle, not a fancy luxury car. I’ll know soon as I have scheduled my road test drive before the end of October. 😎

 

[Timcampsallover]

well they are owned by big oil...

The fuel mileage is a problem for us for sure. However, my 2nd Gen Tacoma gets a little less so I’d be upgrading. It’s a second vehicle too with two others getting 27 and 30+ respectively.

Inneos is a huge chemical company, not oil. Inneos is working on hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen powered vehicles in a huge way, mostly because they generate a lot of it as a result of their chemical production. The poor gas mileage from the ICE series will likely be 100% offset by their hydrogen production vehicles in a few years. This is the plan that I have heard consistently from Inneos anyway.

 

[plh]

The fuel mileage is a problem for us for sure. However, my 2nd Gen Tacoma gets a little less so I’d be upgrading. It’s a second vehicle too with two others getting 27 and 30+ respectively.

Inneos is a huge chemical company, not oil. Inneos is working on hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen powered vehicles in a huge way, mostly because they generate a lot of it as a result of their chemical production. The poor gas mileage from the ICE series will likely be 100% offset by their hydrogen production vehicles in a few years. This is the plan that I have heard consistently from Inneos anyway.

The cheapest way to get hydrogen today is from Natural Gas. Hopefully in the future there can be a more green method found that is cost effective.

And right, Ineos is a chemical company. https://www.ineos.com/industry/products/oil-and-gas/

Olefins & Polymers make up around E15B of their E20B revenue per year.

 

[nickw]

The cheapest way to get hydrogen today is from Natural Gas. Hopefully in the future there can be a more green method found that is cost effective.

And right, Ineos is a chemical company. https://www.ineos.com/industry/products/oil-and-gas/

Oil and petroleum make up around E15B of their E20B revenue per year.

Serious question - why distill NG to H when you can just us NG?

 

[plh]

Serious question - why distill NG to H when you can just us NG?

Because somethings require Hydrogen - but for vehicle use, I don't get the point either.

 

[SkiWill]

Serious question - why distill NG to H when you can just us NG?

Because if the goal is to decarbonize, then NG still has carbon. It's primarily CH4 (the c is for carbon) vs. H2 which has no carbon. CH4 is not a carbon free or low carbon intensity fuel by most definitions when looking at decarbonizing. Also, any leaked CH4 has about a 60x more intense warming effect than CO2 depending on timescale, looking at volume basis vs. mass basis, etc.. Depending on how H2 is produced, it can be a low or no carbon fuel, but it will be a lot more expensive than NG. Plenty of CNG trucks, buses, etc. already use NG. Nothing new there. The push to H2 is to get rid of the C.

 

[nickw]

Because if the goal is to decarbonize, then NG still has carbon. It's primarily CH4 (the c is for carbon) vs. H2 which has no carbon. CH4 is not a carbon free or low carbon intensity fuel by most definitions when looking at decarbonizing. Also, any leaked CH4 has about a 60x more intense warming effect than CO2 depending on timescale, looking at volume basis vs. mass basis, etc.. Depending on how H2 is produced, it can be a low or no carbon fuel, but it will be a lot more expensive than NG. Plenty of CNG trucks, buses, etc. already use NG. Nothing new there. The push to H2 is to get rid of the C.

Even when considering the distillation process is it a net positive? What happens to the other C?

Thanks for the eduction!

 

[CanyonLX]

What year is your G? How did it compare?

Both have heavy steering and very basic HVAC controls. I would compare the Grenadier's build quality to a 4Runner, really good, but nowhere close to a GWagen.

The Gren's engineered design is to be simple and purposefully built, which it achieves by flying colors. Non-motorized seat controls is a prime example...I love it.

 

[nickw]

Both have heavy steering and very basic HVAC controls. I would compare the Grenadier's build quality to a 4Runner, really good, but nowhere close to a GWagen.

The Gren's engineered design is to be simple and purposefully built, which it achieves by flying colors. Non-motorized seat controls is a prime example...I love it.

I was going to say, Gwagen is built to a standard that is above almost anything.

I think it's built to exude purposefully built construction but the reality is it's drivetrain, IMO, breaks that design principle. It has a very complicated engine/trans combo which gets in the way of me accepting that it will be better than the other rigs, especially not a Gwagen which is my gold standard....

 

[SkiWill]

Even when considering the distillation process is it a net positive? What happens to the other C?

Thanks for the eduction!

It's not a distillation process. That's separating liquids for example taking crude oil and separating out the gasoline range, diesel range, asphalt, etc.

Using natural gas to make hydrogen is a reformation or conversion process. Most common is steam methane reformation to make the H2 and CO2. Air Products did a US Department of Energy demonstration for about a decade where they captured the CO2 from their steam methane reformer in Port Arthur, TX and then put the CO2 in a pipeline which was injected in wells for enhanced oil recovery at a depleted oil field. Most look at auto-thermal reformation at this point, but same thing. Have to capture the CO2 and inject it underground for either storage or enhanced oil recovery. But yes, all of this takes energy and adds cost but the hydrogen fuel can be utilized with low carbon intensity.

Alternatively, Mitsubishi's ACES project in Delta Utah will use electrolyzers to electrochemically split water into hydrogen and oxygen using wind and solar power which probably has the lowest carbon intensity but is also less efficient and more water intensive.

 

[SkiWill]

Both have heavy steering and very basic HVAC controls. I would compare the Grenadier's build quality to a 4Runner, really good, but nowhere close to a GWagen.

The Gren's engineered design is to be simple and purposefully built, which it achieves by flying colors. Non-motorized seat controls is a prime example...I love it.

And that's why without my 25% Ineos discount code, I'll be passing on the Grenadier for now. I can get a used G class 463 with better build quality for less money. I'm willing to pay a 50% mark up on a 4runner for what the Grenadier offers, but not 100% markup.

 

[nickw]

And that's why without my 25% Ineos discount code, I'll be passing on the Grenadier for now. I can get a used G class 463 with better build quality for less money. I'm willing to pay a 50% mark up on a 4runner for what the Grenadier offers, but not 100% markup.

Don't forget local support - Gwagen can be handled by any Merc dealer.

 

[Todd780]

I'm willing to pay a 50% mark up on a 4runner for what the Grenadier offers, but not 100% markup.

And that will probably put you in LandCruiser 1958 territory...Not sure what the 2024 LandCruiser payload is though...

 

[nickw]

And that will probably put you in LandCruiser 1958 territory...Not sure what the 2024 LandCruiser payload is though...

MSRP is 40-50k for a 4R so you are looking 60-70k which is well within reason on a 24' LC. If one was willing to accept 100% markup you could pick up a nice LX600 which are very cool rigs and only 20k over a Gren.

 

[gxgn]

Rock-crawling capability?

I’ve watched a lot of the videos available and all indicate the truck is very capable for forest roads but what about more serious/technical trails? Do you guys think the IG could do a trail that’s rated 5/10, say something like Black Bear Pass CO with just a swap for 33” tires? I was looking to go back to a 200 Series and I‘m intrigued by the IG. Thanks